ABUs

[Eclipse]

I, for one, could not begin to care what service some random member of the general public thinks I am in.

If they need something from me, the service is irrelevant.

If I am doing something for them, the service is irrelevant.

If we are working as partners, they will understand.

We need a concise uniform set that fulfills the mission without breaking our members' wallets.  If we can do that while
maintaining our affinity with the USAF, great.  If we can't, it is what it is.

The cloth we wear won't change our role, missions, tasking, or funding any more than removing USAF AUX did from the planes.

Move on...

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Then why not leave it as it is? Why do people want to change it?

[PhoenixRisen]

Then why not leave it as it is? Why do people want to change it?

People want to look 1) more like the Air Force, or 2) less like the Air Force (and military in general).  For those who prefer the latter reason, I simply question why they're in a military-oriented and affiliated program in the first place.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Thank you Phoenix. That is exactly what this is, United States Air Force Auxiliary. Not the boy scouts, this is a military organization. If you don't like it then find another organization, or if your in it for SAR then go FEMA. USAFA that is what we are and we should be proud of it! If you hate the uniforms and what they stand for then what are you doing in CAP, are you here to destroy it? Do you just want to see CAP ruined?

[Eclipse]

USAFA = Air Force Academy.

FEMA does not do SAR - they are a resource management and funding agency of the Federal Goverment.  Agencies working for and with FEMA do SAR.

I joined CAP to do SAR.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

USAFA also= United States Air Force Auxiliary

Federal Emergency Management Asoc. makes the rules and regulations and determines what can and can't be done by local Emergency Management Svcs. (EMS). If you joined CAP just to do SAR then you are in the wrong place. CAP is about the youth growing into strong dependable selfless members of society. If you are not here for that reason primarily then you need to be with your local EMS.

[PHall]

USAFA also= United States Air Force Auxiliary

No, USAFAux = United States Air Force Auxiliary

[Eclipse]

USAFA also= United States Air Force Auxiliary

Federal Emergency Management Asoc. makes the rules and regulations and determines what can and can't be done by local Emergency Management Svcs. (EMS). If you joined CAP just to do SAR then you are in the wrong place. CAP is about the youth growing into strong dependable selfless members of society. If you are not here for that reason primarily then you need to be with your local EMS.

The cadet program is officially only 1/3rd of CAP's marketed mission, but in reality about 1/2 of what CAP is about.

[biomed441]

In an attempt to keep the thread on topic...

I was under the impression that it wasn't so much a matter of if, but a matter of when we would transition to the ABUs. I personally like the uniforms. I've heard 2011, 2012, 2014. Likely all speculative by some individual somewhere. Not really sure what to make of that, if anything at all.

[Eclipse]

In an attempt to keep the thread on topic...

I was under the impression that it wasn't so much a matter of if, but a matter of when we would transition to the ABUs. I personally like the uniforms. I've heard 2011, 2012, 2014. Likely all speculative by some individual somewhere. Not really sure what to make of that, if anything at all.

There is no "when" today, nor any mandate.  BDU's are readily available and will continue to be.  While I'm sure there has been back channel discussion, its never been on any official agenda that I'm aware of.

[biomed441]

There is no "when" today, nor any mandate.  BDU's are readily available and will continue to be.  While I'm sure there has been back channel discussion, its never been on any official agenda that I'm aware of.

Ah I see. I think thats really what anyone is looking for is if theres anything "on paper" regarding ABU's and CAP. If not then whatever. You make a point that BDU's are still available if you buy them new. The biggest issue I see with that is the availablity of used BDU's. Not sure how it is in the rest of the country but in OK, theres a significant shortage of used ones. Really not that big of an issue for SM's generally, but for cadets who dont have the money to buy a brand new set of them, it creates a challenge. The Surplus stores are nearly empty of them here, but they seem to be filling up with ABU's now.

[Eclipse]

^ ABU's won't fix that.  If anything it makes it worse.  In many parts of the country there is no nearby USAF base
and used BDU's aren't even a factor, at least not through DRMO or military resale.

We can't structure our uniform plans based on the secondary market availability of used items. 

[DrJbdm]

I would hope that CAP members would be very forthcoming as to who they are NOT (military) and who they are (CAP civilian volunteers).  Unfortunately, I know this isn't adhered to by all  .
RM     

  Wow, there are some members on this forum like Radioman015 who seem to have joined a different CAP then I have. I joined the United States Air Force Aux, also known as the Civil Air Patrol. CAP has always been a military organization in that it is listed within the family as a part of the U.S. Air Force. Perhaps those who share Radioman015 views have joined a different CAP. Understand that CAP is a corporation only to the extent needed for tax and liability purposes. If you read the original federal charter of CAP, it paints a pretty clear picture that CAP was not founded first as a benevolent, non combat, flying club that some of you believe CAP to be.

  Radioman, perhaps you are not aware of the history of the CAP that I belong to. At one time, CAP was a combat arm of the Army Air Corps, yes we flew combat missions and dropped live ordinance and killed members of a foreign military force. That my friend sounds pretty close to a military force. Now, that was a few years in our history but it is a very real part of history. CAP may not do combat operations now, but we have never really moved to far from being a military asset. Yes, we are considered to be civilians, but that doesn't mean that we are not part of the U.S. Air Force family. I know that probably disturbs you greatly, since you seem to go to great lengths to chase people down so that no one walks past you and somehow forms the wrong impression. Well, chances are you won't even wear the Air Force style uniforms. Perhaps the boy scouts or perhaps some SAR only organization would work great for you. I think the U.S. Ranger Corps needs people.

   As for ABU's? Unless something radical happens, we will be in those uniforms within a few years. Perhaps not till 2015 or so but it will happen. Look at our history with all the other Air Force uniforms that have changed.

[Eclipse]

   As for ABU's? Unless something radical happens, we will be in those uniforms within a few years. Perhaps not till 2015 or so but it will happen. Look at our history with all the other Air Force uniforms that have changed.

I would be willing to bet a nice steak dinner that we will never be in ABU's, and that by 2015 the USAF will be in either multicams or
into wear-testing a new joint service uniform again.

[biomed441]

   As for ABU's? Unless something radical happens, we will be in those uniforms within a few years. Perhaps not till 2015 or so but it will happen. Look at our history with all the other Air Force uniforms that have changed.

Wasn't trying to suggest that that be a reason to switch to a uniform. I'm just trying to think of the cadets, particularly in my area who just can not afford new BDU's and the availablity of used BDU's is less than what it could be. Even with DRMO, the stock is going way down around here. Could be different in other parts of the country though. Just reporting from what I see.

I would be willing to bet a nice steak dinner that we will never be in ABU's, and that by 2015 the USAF will be in either multicams or
into wear-testing a new joint service uniform again.

Good point.

[PhoenixRisen]

   As for ABU's? Unless something radical happens, we will be in those uniforms within a few years. Perhaps not till 2015 or so but it will happen. Look at our history with all the other Air Force uniforms that have changed.

I would be willing to bet a nice steak dinner that we will never be in ABU's, and that by 2015 the USAF will be in either multicams or
into wear-testing a new joint service uniform again.

I wonder how long it'll take for the DOD to implement the new Ground Combat Uniform that was proposed (and now, supposedly, required) by Congress.  Hmmm.....

[DrJbdm]

ok, I'll bite. That may become the case. I will still stand by the idea that we will eventually phase into whatever current, stable field uniform that the Air Force gets into and stays into. But, who knows, enough years are going to go by before that happens that we may need to look into another option because of the milspec BDU shortage. 

[PHall]

In an attempt to keep the thread on topic...

I was under the impression that it wasn't so much a matter of if, but a matter of when we would transition to the ABUs. I personally like the uniforms. I've heard 2011, 2012, 2014. Likely all speculative by some individual somewhere. Not really sure what to make of that, if anything at all.

The last "official" word from our Air Force overseers was that once the Air Force had completed their transition to the ABU they would consider allowing CAP to wear them.
The mandatory wear date for the ABU in the Air Force is 1 Oct 2011.

So standby to standby.

[Eclipse]

In an attempt to keep the thread on topic...

I was under the impression that it wasn't so much a matter of if, but a matter of when we would transition to the ABUs. I personally like the uniforms. I've heard 2011, 2012, 2014. Likely all speculative by some individual somewhere. Not really sure what to make of that, if anything at all.

The last "official" word from our Air Force overseers was that once the Air Force had completed their transition to the ABU they would consider allowing CAP to wear them.
The mandatory wear date for the ABU in the Air Force is 1 Oct 2011.

So standby to standby.

We (CAP) would also have to ask, and at least on paper there is a 2-year moratorium on uniform changes.

[PhoenixRisen]

I wasn't around for it, but what happend with the switch from the OD greens to the BDUs?  From what I remember hearing, it was a simple phase-out process for us.  Why would this change be any different?