ABUs

[MIKE]

My white on CG blue fabric strip tapes and butter bars with black "A"s are the [mess] on my ODUs. 

[DrJbdm]

That is why you spell out United States Air Force but abbreviate Aux in your signature block so there is no confusion?  Sorry bud, but read the charter and see when we are actually functioning as the USAF Aux.  We are always CAP but not always the Aux.

That is up for some debate, We as the Civil Air Patrol are always known as the United States Air Force Auxiliary, but in terms of funding and insurance we are presumed to be acting as the United States Air Force Auxiliary during times of any Air Force Assigned Missions. It's not really a case of Aux On / Aux Off; we never stop being known as the United States Air Force Auxiliary. If what you say is the case then our letterhead and ID cards need to completely changed to remove United States Air Force Auxiliary from appearing anywhere except for when we are on an AFAM.

   As for my sig block, you must be easily confused if you cannot see and understand "Aux" after USAF. I'm sorry that causes you such concern and confusion.

[vmstan]

I recently posted a picture of me in my blues on my Facebook page, yesterday my boss said "don't you think people are going to see that and think you're in the military?" ... to which I said "they can think whatever they want, if they ask I will tell them I'm a member of the Civil Air Patrol and we wear USAF uniforms because we're also the auxiliary of the USAF" ... I take pride in my uniform and my appearance in it, regardless of if it's blues, BDUs, ABUs, blue BDUs, polo/slacks, flight suit or any other approved combo. If people want to "mistake" me based on that appearance for active duty then so be it, if asked I will never claim to be, simply a member of CAP.

[vmstan]

I'm not sure that people would see the Blueberry Suit and relate it to CAP, even if it were our main uniform for a number of years.  Heck, many adults see the AF blue uniform and have to say "are you in the Army?"   

Did the Army give up on their plan to move everyone over to the blues as standard dress?

[Hawk200]

I'm not sure that people would see the Blueberry Suit and relate it to CAP, even if it were our main uniform for a number of years.  Heck, many adults see the AF blue uniform and have to say "are you in the Army?"   

Did the Army give up on their plan to move everyone over to the blues as standard dress?

No, they didn't give up on it. It's happening.

One of my previous Army Guard units was airborne, and as such, had the Airborne tab. I had people ask me on a regular basis if I was in the Air Force. Yes, my BDUs said "US Army" right there on the chest, but people assumed I was Air Force because of an Airborne tab.

All in all, CAP is never going to have a unique identity. Any attempt to create one with another uniform is an intentional pursuit into failure.

[RADIOMAN015]

I haven't heard all that much about it. Any word on when we'll be swapping out our BDUs for ABUs(though to be honest, I would prefer ACUs, but you take what you can get)?

AF Instruction 10-2701, Chapter 1 details that the USAF will determine the types of military uniforms that CAP volunteer civilian members will wear.   The key aspect is that there has to be enough distinction at low light level to determine the individual is not a military member but a CAP member.  Even the current standard IMHO is very liberal  -- I doubt that you will see authorization for subdued name/cap tags or grade on any new CAP military type uniforms.

I have a friend who is in Iraq working for a civilian contractor who has to wear a distinct uniform that is very different than the military uniform.    CAP missions as defined in the instruction above are non-combative in nature.  Unless one is looking at a CAP senior member facing you in military style uniforms, it would be very difficult to distiguish from any other angle.  There is a possbility that the AF may decide that CAP senior members cannot wear ABU's but will have to transition to the Blue BDU's or even another color.

The biggest challenge is that BDU's bought in military clothing stores meet a specific wear specification.  IF we go to another type of utility type uniform, will we be able to get the same quality the the military gets

Again from a public relations standpoint, it is important for CAP uniforms to "stand out" from the military, especially when engaged in joint activities or even in support of civilian disaster relief efforts.   For the most part civilians are very naive when it comes to seeing someone in uniform and being able to differentiate.  I would hope that CAP members would be very forthcoming as to who they are NOT (military) and who they are (CAP civilian volunteers).  Unfortunately, I know this isn't adhered to by all  .
RM       

[PHall]

Again from a public relations standpoint, it is important for CAP uniforms to "stand out" from the military, especially when engaged in joint activities or even in support of civilian disaster relief efforts.   For the most part civilians are very naive when it comes to seeing someone in uniform and being able to differentiate.  I would hope that CAP members would be very forthcoming as to who they are NOT (military) and who they are (CAP civilian volunteers).  Unfortunately, I know this isn't adhered to by all  .
RM     

Rather bold statement. Is this a rant or do you have some proof that this is happening?
And second and third hand statements are not proof.

[JC004]

Again from a public relations standpoint, it is important for CAP uniforms to "stand out" from the military, especially when engaged in joint activities or even in support of civilian disaster relief efforts.   For the most part civilians are very naive when it comes to seeing someone in uniform and being able to differentiate.  I would hope that CAP members would be very forthcoming as to who they are NOT (military) and who they are (CAP civilian volunteers).  Unfortunately, I know this isn't adhered to by all  .
RM     

Rather bold statement. Is this a rant or do you have some proof that this is happening?
And second and third hand statements are not proof.

Yeah, what the crap?  That sounds like members are going around en masse telling people that they're military.

[RADIOMAN015]

Again from a public relations standpoint, it is important for CAP uniforms to "stand out" from the military, especially when engaged in joint activities or even in support of civilian disaster relief efforts.   For the most part civilians are very naive when it comes to seeing someone in uniform and being able to differentiate.  I would hope that CAP members would be very forthcoming as to who they are NOT (military) and who they are (CAP civilian volunteers).  Unfortunately, I know this isn't adhered to by all  .
RM     

Rather bold statement. Is this a rant or do you have some proof that this is happening?
And second and third hand statements are not proof.

Yeah, what the crap?  That sounds like members are going around en masse telling people that they're military.

No it isn't everyone  ---  what I am saying is that I've talked directly with CAP members that have told me some stories about what happend to them while in uniform.  We've also seen posting on this list from personnel who were mistaken as military members.   Frankly CAP members mis-identified by the naive general public need to take the RIGHT action and state they are not in the military, but a civilian volunteer in CAP which is the official auxiliary of the USAF :angel:   So it ain't crap, it's the reality when the AF lets  CAP volunteers wear military style uniforms, that just aren't distinctive enough
RM

[PhoenixRisen]

So it ain't crap, it's the reality when the AF lets  CAP volunteers wear military style uniforms, that just aren't distinctive enough

You've just gotta think that if someone can miss the bright blue / white tapes that scream "CIVIL AIR PATROL", yet still ask "Are you in the Army?", that it might just not be the fault of our uniforms being misleading, but simply the ignorance of the mainstream civilian population...

[RiverAux]

Exactly.  There is not one single thing (I repeat, NOT ONE SINGLE THING) on the BDU that associates the wearer with any military service. 

[NCRblues]

At last years wing conference, the general assembly was told that the low light conditions regulation was designed not for civilians to tell us apart  (because frankly they cant, i have even seen civilians ask if cap was homeland security) but for military members, so they could tell us apart from their officers and to not confuse chains of command when working with military units.

[Fubar]

Exactly.  There is not one single thing (I repeat, NOT ONE SINGLE THING) on the BDU that associates the wearer with any military service.

Except the camouflage. A guy wearing cammo pants at the mall, is well, just a guy in cammo pants. Maybe a hunter. A guy in cammo pants, a cammo blouse, big black boots, and a cammo hat walking around, even at the mall, will scream "MILITARY" to the general public. There's a reason the Air Force still exerts authority over the uniform even though as mentioned the uniform doesn't contain one single emblem of our Armed Forces (rank/grade doesn't count).

Going all blue or black will simply get us confused with cops. All brown will probably get us lumped in with the local Sheriff's Office/Dept. Yellow will make us bananas. Red will make us lucifer-worshipers or something. It's a pick-your-posion kind of deal.

[Survivor]

I'd like to point out the fact that, considering many of the cadets are young and therefore fairly short, when i'm with other cadets I rarely get confused with military. If i'm alone or just with other taller cadets, it happens more often, but i've noticed people are recognizing ACUs and ABUs more and more as the standard military uniform. Though there is the fact that people tend to look just plain bigger in BDUs...

[JC004]

*yaaaaawn*  *blink, blink*

[Hawk200]

Again from a public relations standpoint, it is important for CAP uniforms to "stand out" from the military, especially when engaged in joint activities or even in support of civilian disaster relief efforts.   For the most part civilians are very naive when it comes to seeing someone in uniform and being able to differentiate.  I would hope that CAP members would be very forthcoming as to who they are NOT (military) and who they are (CAP civilian volunteers).  Unfortunately, I know this isn't adhered to by all  .
RM     

Rather bold statement. Is this a rant or do you have some proof that this is happening?
And second and third hand statements are not proof.

Yeah, what the crap?  That sounds like members are going around en masse telling people that they're military.

No it isn't everyone  ---  what I am saying is that I've talked directly with CAP members that have told me some stories about what happend to them while in uniform.  We've also seen posting on this list from personnel who were mistaken as military members.   Frankly CAP members mis-identified by the naive general public need to take the RIGHT action and state they are not in the military, but a civilian volunteer in CAP which is the official auxiliary of the USAF :angel:   So it ain't crap, it's the reality when the AF lets  CAP volunteers wear military style uniforms, that just aren't distinctive enough
RM

In the last twenty one years between military and CAP service, I've seen all kinds of stupid misimpressions.

On numerous occasions, I was asked if I was in the Army; while wearing BDU's with Air Force tapes, Air Force stripes, and Air Force patches.

On a few of occasions, I was asked if I was a Marine, because "Marines wear camoflage". And that was while wearing Air Force or Army BDUs.

One time, while wearing Air Force blues (an Air Force uniform, not a CAP one), I was asked if I was Coast Guard. Had the same question years later while in CAP blues, too.

On another occasion, stopped at the store while wearing a flightsuit. Got asked if I was "one of those sherrif pilots".

Another occasion, I was asked if I was in the Air Force because of the Airborne tab on my sleeve.

If someone asks, I will educate them. But I'm not going to chase down every neuron challenged freak on the street to tell him, "Hey, I'm not military, I'm Civil Air Patrol."

All in all, the idea that we have to come up with some absolutely preposterous uniform just to make sure no one mistakes us for military personnel is a complete fail.

Correctness can be taken way too far. So, it is crap. Just because a few have done it, doesn't mean that the brush can be applied to all. And your post seems to imply it.

If you don't like wearing the mil style uniforms, don't. If you can't handle a paramilitary chain of command, join a flying club. You, and the rest of Civil Air Patrol, will be better off.

[RiverAux]

I too have come to the conclusion that there is absolutely no uniform that CAP might choose that wouldn't have the potential for confusion with some other larger and more well known organization like a military service or some generic group (SWAT teams).  Therefore, we should just continue doing what we have and move on.  Correct any misimpressions if the opportunity and time arise, but beyond that we just have to live with other people not recognizing us for us.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I for one definitely am up for keeping the BDU as it is. I have never been asked if I was in the military except for when I was. I  guess enough people aren't stupid enough to think that a blue CIVIL AIR PATROL tape on my chest means that I am in the Army or the Air Force. My curiosity is are there no ANG or AFNG units around you? Besides all of that, I live in Bloomington IN just south of Camp Atterbury, the center for homeland security, and we are told all the time that they appreciate us and how easy it is to recognize us from everyone else. They say that because there are things they like us to do that they don't want Army or USAF doing because of the military implications of using them for certain objectives in the cities and towns. Seeing ACU's or ABU's unnerves some people if they are in large groups as we are. I just don't understand how people can complain that the uniform is too military, or even those who go the other way and say we need the ABU. I have the ideal appearance of the US Army soldier, I wear a high and tight, I am 5'11" and weigh a strong frame of 165lbs. There is no one around where I live that has mistaken me for Army or USAF, even that I do AW CAPREG 39-1 wear my CIB, Air Assault, and medals.

[Spike]

Besides all of that, I live in Bloomington IN just south of Camp Atterbury, the center for homeland security, and we are told all the time that they appreciate us and how easy it is to recognize us from everyone else. They say that because there are things they like us to do that they don't want Army or USAF doing because of the military implications of using them for certain objectives in the cities and towns.

Robert...... HLS missions are tasked through CAP-USAF, so in fact.....HLS is getting the work done by USAF, who then passes it to CAP.  Memo's of agreement or understanding are good reads on the National Headquarters website.

If you are performing missions for HLS, without USAF sign-off, you are in violation of the law.  Not to mention, should you die or be injured, the FED may not have to pay.  CAP would be paying, and that is not that much!!

[manfredvonrichthofen]

For one, I never said anything about doing anything for HLS without USAF "orders". I simply stated that they like that we wear because people know who we are. No one thinks us dangerous or intimidating but helpful. If you are assuming that I am doing things that are inappropriate then I wonder what you are doing. Freud said that one who reads too into a message that isn't there  has the same issue wrong with them.