ABUs

[a2capt]

And then there are those that complain about those that complain about uniform threads     

At least there is some uniformity about it.

[Fuzzy]

Man its going to be awesome to see half my guys in tiger stripes and half sporting woodland camo for  the foreseeable future.

As the new airmen come in they're obviously not going to buy the old kit and the old guys are probably going to stick it out for a wile. The BDU's will still be serviceable after all. At the other end, high speed guys are probably going to switch right away.

Maybe it might be wise to run a fundraiser when the ABU's come out. Get everyone on the same page quicker than the natural process.

[vmstan]

That's how it's been in the RM from what I hear.

If they were authorized tomorrow I'd be wearing them Tuesday, but it doesn't really bother me to still be in BDUs when a good chunk of the real AF is still in them too. Heck, if they never authorized them it wouldn't really bother me either.

[PHall]

That's how it's been in the RM from what I hear.

If they were authorized tomorrow I'd be wearing them Tuesday, but it doesn't really bother me to still be in BDUs when a good chunk of the real AF is still in them too. Heck, if they never authorized them it wouldn't really bother me either.

Actually, BDU's are starting to become rare on many bases. Even at March ARB, which is a Guard/Reserve base, about 70% of the folks are in the ABU. It's only 15 months before they become mandatory.

[RADIOMAN015]

That's how it's been in the RM from what I hear.

If they were authorized tomorrow I'd be wearing them Tuesday, but it doesn't really bother me to still be in BDUs when a good chunk of the real AF is still in them too. Heck, if they never authorized them it wouldn't really bother me either.

Actually, BDU's are starting to become rare on many bases. Even at March ARB, which is a Guard/Reserve base, about 70% of the folks are in the ABU. It's only 15 months before they become mandatory.

I don't think there's any BX clothing stores even carrying BDU's anymore, might be some stock remaining but no new orders.
Frankly, there's absolutely NO reason for CAP members to be wearing ABU's.

It is much more important for CAP to start differentiating itself to avoid the public's confusion with us being military.

I think the Blue BDU's and flight suits look great.  With the colored patches, name tags/CAP tags it is a better differentiation than BDU's or other "army" or air force related outfits to the general public.

When we go down the street it should allow the public to say "there goes a Civil Air Patrol member, they perform many missions for America!!!" :clap: rather than thinking the individual is in the armed forces.

However, as we know, many of you in CAP do like the idea of the general public THINKING you are military members     
Frankly, this results in poor public relations for the organization
RM

[a2capt]

Saw some, a couple shelves worth, at March ARB, just a few weeks ago. I was quite surprised.

[PHall]

Saw some, a couple shelves worth, at March ARB, just a few weeks ago. I was quite surprised.

Interesting, I haven't seen any BDU's at March for at least six months now.
And according to the MCSS Manager, they shipped their last few BDU's to the LA AFB MCSS.

[JC004]

I don't think there's any BX clothing stores even carrying BDU's anymore, might be some stock remaining but no new orders.
Frankly, there's absolutely NO reason for CAP members to be wearing ABU's.

It is much more important for CAP to start differentiating itself to avoid the public's confusion with us being military.

I think the Blue BDU's and flight suits look great.  With the colored patches, name tags/CAP tags it is a better differentiation than BDU's or other "army" or air force related outfits to the general public.

When we go down the street it should allow the public to say "there goes a Civil Air Patrol member, they perform many missions for America!!!" :clap: rather than thinking the individual is in the armed forces.

However, as we know, many of you in CAP do like the idea of the general public THINKING you are military members     
Frankly, this results in poor public relations for the organization
RM

I'm not sure that people would see the Blueberry Suit and relate it to CAP, even if it were our main uniform for a number of years.  Heck, many adults see the AF blue uniform and have to say "are you in the Army?"   

Also, you are confused about what the people will say when they see us.  They will say "Transformers!  More than meets the skies!"   

[a2capt]

Interesting, I haven't seen any BDU's at March for at least six months now.
And according to the MCSS Manager, they shipped their last few BDU's to the LA AFB MCSS.

A couple as in less than 8 linear feet. Not a full section.  Looked mostly like Winter weight remainders, maybe someone found a box full 'cause packed together thats about what it was. Probably a flight of cadets worth.

[JoeTomasone]

I don't think there's any BX clothing stores even carrying BDU's anymore, might be some stock remaining but no new orders.
Frankly, there's absolutely NO reason for CAP members to be wearing ABU's.

That in itself is/will be a valid reason.   You can't wear what you cannot buy.

It is much more important for CAP to start differentiating itself to avoid the public's confusion with us being military.

For 95% or greater of the public, if you are wearing a military-style uniform, you're military.    The only uniform I can see as truly differentiating us would be the BBDU - and then we'd be SWAT or something.

When we go down the street it should allow the public to say "there goes a Civil Air Patrol member, they perform many missions for America!!!" :clap: rather than thinking the individual is in the armed forces.

Sorry, but in my experience, more people know who their Congressman is than know about CAP.   Even amongst AD USAF folks, you can be hard pressed to find those who know they have an Auxiliary.   I don't care what uniform we wear, we simply have low visibility amongst the public.   Even in news articles concerning missions, the name is mentioned, and I will bet that pretty much everyone figures that the "Civil Air Patrol" is part of the Sheriff's Department or something since it is never explained - and that is if they bother to think about it at all.

However, as we know, many of you in CAP do like the idea of the general public THINKING you are military members     
Frankly, this results in poor public relations for the organization

OK.. I'll bite...   If someone mistakes me for AD, how does that negatively impact CAP?   Logically, it cannot, since that person thinks I belong to another organization entirely.


Quite frankly, I don't care if we wear the BDUs or switch to ABUs..   I just want to do the job.


   - Joe

[FARRIER]

It is much more important for CAP to start differentiating itself to avoid the public's confusion with us being military.

However, as we know, many of you in CAP do like the idea of the general public THINKING you are military members     
Frankly, this results in poor public relations for the organization
RM

You were being constructive when you posed the question about building access. Are you constructive, or do you just like trashing members of CAP?

[DrJbdm]

   It's pretty clear that Radioman015 did not join the United States Air Force Auxiliary also known as the Civil Air Patrol, he joined a CAP club that likes to be completely away from anything having to do with the military. Sorry bud, it is one in the same. If Civil Air Patrol was to ever lose the Air Force relationship any more then we already have then Civil Air patrol would cease to exist in any form recognizable today. Having us associated or even viewed as being military adds credibility and opens the door for us to be able to do other missions. Nothing wrong with being mistaken for AD military. You cannot change the perception of the people.

  As for ABU's, unless anything radically changes with the CAP uniforms and the Air Force relationship, it is a foregone conclusion that we will eventually transition to the ABU's. We had this same argument back when the Air Force changed from fatigues to BDU's. It took a few years, but CAP made the change. It happened once, it will happen again. Just look thru the history of Air Force and CAP uniforms to see that CAP will follow suit.

[necigrad]

I'm starting to find these threads about BDUs, ABUs, BBDUs, and the like rather hilarious.  Not because they keep coming up with the same arguments (OK, yeah, that is kinda ridiculous, but not my point) but because those that advocate changing rationalize it on the grounds that we shouldn't be confused with the military.  Setting aside the debate about us being the USAF Auxiliary, I see one glaring problem with the proposals.  If you look at the BDUs, you'll find that many outside the military use them.  Many police outfits use them, civilians wear them, ex military wear them.  The green flight suits are worn by many outside of the military as well.  The most popular suggestion for a "replacement" is the BBDUs.  The BBDUs which many police departments use, and I'm sure you could find other professional organizations use them.

The advocates for change are good at heart, but the plan is flawed.  Any "appropriately styled" utility uniform will have conflicts with many other groups.  We can stay with AF uniforms, we can stay with CAP specific uniforms, we can stay with both, and occasionally have someone mistake us for RM.  Or we can change.  We can go to Blue (or black, grey, orange, or whatever) BDUs and other uniforms, and be mistaken for police, convicts, the Coast Guard, or some others.  Does it really matter in the end?  We're either going to look like someone else, or we're all going to do everything in embroidered polos, or we'll just show up everywhere in whatever we're wearing at the time and look like a disorganized mess.  It's a pointless discussion.

[N Harmon]

I built a wooden rocking chair once that turned out so well I was asked where it was purchased. I took that as a great compliment. Conversely, if my professional competence and behavior reflects so positively that I am mistaken as a military officer, I will likewise take that as a compliment as well. However in both cases I will try to set the person straight as to facts.

I really wish CAP would get rid of the ultramarine insignia on uniforms. I'm sorry, but it looks all kinds of goofy. Switch the BBDUs to navy/white insignia, and either transition BDUs to ABUs with subdued/white insignia or get rid of the USAF field uniform altogether. My personal preference is to go to ABUs with distinctive white lettering but that counts for about as much as anyone's.

I think it really should come down to what makes us more effective, and I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two except the ABUs will likely get cheap when there is an abundance of supply for them (kinda like what happened to BDUs).

As for posters on here who like to call CAP members impersonators and wannabes, you do far more damage to our organization's reputation. Seriously.

[JayT]

I think it really should come down to what makes us more effective, and I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two except the ABUs will likely get cheap when there is an abundance of supply for them (kinda like what happened to BDUs).

Does everyone think that's really going to happen with ABU's? The BDU was once worn by every service. The ABU is just being worn by the Air Force. Is the market really going to be flooded with surplus?

[tdepp]

I think it really should come down to what makes us more effective, and I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two except the ABUs will likely get cheap when there is an abundance of supply for them (kinda like what happened to BDUs).

Does everyone think that's really going to happen with ABU's? The BDU was once worn by every service. The ABU is just being worn by the Air Force. Is the market really going to be flooded with surplus?

Agreed.  Seems like there is a plethora of BDUs available from a number of sources, both new and used.  Many of our members are price sensitive and the BDUs seem like they are the Pontiac Grand Am of uniforms--you see them everywhere.  And how will ABUs, other than looking cool, help us do our various missions any better?  I prefer the ABUs personaly but the BDUs work just fine and there are scads of them and will be for the foreseeable future.

[tsrup]

I think it really should come down to what makes us more effective, and I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two except the ABUs will likely get cheap when there is an abundance of supply for them (kinda like what happened to BDUs).

Does everyone think that's really going to happen with ABU's? The BDU was once worn by every service. The ABU is just being worn by the Air Force. Is the market really going to be flooded with surplus?

Maybe not but it' will at least be available and standardized.  The BDU's will go the way of the fatigues, and when that happens it will be hard for cadets and members to have access to them.  If we switch to ABU's we will have access to a uniform that we wont have to buy second hand or online.  I'm sure manufacturers like TruSpec will still continue making a BDU uniform, but as far as I have seen the prices online have been the same as the ABU.  So with pricing for new uniforms being the same, it will come down to what is more readily available.  It's not a matter of if we'll transition, but when.


And Radioman, I have seen you do more badmouthing and name calling toward those of us who wear the AF uniform than anyone on either side of the argument.  I take offense to your slander.  It is obvious that you do not respect those that wear a different uniform than you in our organization.  Maybe you should just let your membership lapse and save yourself the headache of dealing with us "wannabees".

[MIKE]

I really wish CAP would get rid of the ultramarine insignia on uniforms. I'm sorry, but it looks all kinds of goofy. Switch the BBDUs to navy/white insignia, and either transition BDUs to ABUs with subdued/white insignia or get rid of the USAF field uniform altogether. My personal preference is to go to ABUs with distinctive white lettering but that counts for about as much as anyone's.

I think the white on sage looks goofy on the ABU, and yes I have seen it.  The thing the white on ultramarine blue insignia has going for it is that it is visibly distinctive while still being "Air Forcey" historically... And you don't really need to stock two types of insignia for the ABU and Field Uniform.

[Short Field]

   It's pretty clear that Radioman015 did not join the United States Air Force Auxiliary also known as the Civil Air Patrol, he joined a CAP club that likes to be completely away from anything having to do with the military. Sorry bud, it is one in the same.

That is why you spell out United States Air Force but abbreviate Aux in your signature block so there is no confusion?  Sorry bud, but read the charter and see when we are actually functioning as the USAF Aux.  We are always CAP but not always the Aux.

[Hawk200]

And you don't really need to stock two types of insignia for the ABU and Field Uniform.

Easy way to solve that. Go white on navy for both. I've actually heard first hand complaints that the UM looks like faded tapes/insignia on the BBDU, even when the insignia is brand new. It would look better on both. History is nice, but when it looks goofy, it's time for a change.

I know price is an issue, but for the sake of uniformity, mandate it for all uniforms within a reasonable time period.