NEC approves GT uniform requirement

[mynetdude]

Why?!?! Are they following CAWG's notion that they require a GT uniform when doing GT?

[cap235629]

what are you talking about?

[mynetdude]

what are you talking about?

The letter is recieved from PCR from when PCRCC went to NEC Meeting on May 1st.  On the 1st page or two it indicates GT uniform will be required.

[Major Lord]

Interesting letter. What is the Air War "Collage"? Pictures pasted to cardboard? What is a "Sliver" Star? a sliced off portion of a whole star? Only in Alabama............

Major Lord

[heliodoc]

If this is the case

Cost of doing business if you want to play with the big boys of emergency services.

Some may say I am a nay sayer...but it's the folks CAP is going to support (if CAP gets the call)

It is CA OEM shot to call.  They have their rules......NOW CAP will just have to get in line with the RULES.

This may be the first State that requires a high viz color...CAP ought to be thinking this route ..Orange, Lime Yellow, or other high viz colors that are OSHA approved...Maybe some other vendor other than Vanguard could start gearing up for real SAR uniform changes

CAP start digging deeper into the pockets...changes are acomin' in the NIMS and ICS world and this may be the start of a whole new trend that CAP may have to face up to...

CAP has forced a number of changes upon the membership....NOW it is outside agancies that may REQUIRE CAP to dress for THEIR missions.

A good start...What is CAP doing in BDU's anyway other than trying to look like the AF and get free uniforms??  CAP may have to contract to vendor in the future and make it cost effective to start either issuing or making high viz colors cheap enough to buy.  If the membership is buying uniforms for the dog and pony shows.... it quite possibly afford a 32.00+ high viz shirt to be on somebody's mission assignment board!!

[mynetdude]

You guys don't get it do you?

WE ALREADY HAVE high viz vests isn't THAT enough? By requiring GT to wear high viz uniforms just spins the same wheels we already have going for high viz requirements for UDF, GT, FLM etc WHY cook up another uniform when there is already a solution to it?

Fine if a state EOC/EMA SAR committee requires CAP to wear high vis (which we already DO) is a vest not visible enough? One can easily go buy high vis OHSA compliant tshirts, sweatshirts, vests, jackets and pants!

[heliodoc]

I may not get it

But the folks at CA OEM and the LE types may  not want the extra liability of having the less than 18 yr old crowd running around in BDU's.

Does that sound vaguely familiar?  Liability, CAP, and the newly minted and thrusting CAP safety program?

It is the States call and if CA OEM and LE folks do not want others running around in BDU's looking like a SWAT or tactical entry team...well then

Yep..... CAP has the vests...  But CA may want a little more than vests over the BDU's...they may want high viz CLOTHING as a standard.

Stand by to stand by................

[a2capt]

Cadet programs and Aerospace Education are looking more .. and more .. interesting.  every single day.

At least until rocket engines require a license and Haz-Mat handling procedures and this can be gotten only in a class held after two consecutive months of a blue moon. 

[Hawk200]

WE ALREADY HAVE high viz vests isn't THAT enough? By requiring GT to wear high viz uniforms just spins the same wheels we already have going for high viz requirements for UDF, GT, FLM etc WHY cook up another uniform when there is already a solution to it?

Fine if a state EOC/EMA SAR committee requires CAP to wear high vis (which we already DO) is a vest not visible enough?

Different reasons for it. Some wings want to work with local teams, and will go to any lengths to do so. Inlcuding sacrificing our own identity.

I think there's probably a pretty fine line between working with locals, and selling out to them. A ground team uniform specified by an outside organization is an example.

If CAP had moved forward instead of lagging on some things, we might have had far more organizations wanting to be like us, instead of them wanting us to be like them.

Overall, if you can't see a Hi Viz vest, it's probably not very likely that a whole shirt is really going to make all that much difference.

[mynetdude]

WE ALREADY HAVE high viz vests isn't THAT enough? By requiring GT to wear high viz uniforms just spins the same wheels we already have going for high viz requirements for UDF, GT, FLM etc WHY cook up another uniform when there is already a solution to it?

Fine if a state EOC/EMA SAR committee requires CAP to wear high vis (which we already DO) is a vest not visible enough?

Different reasons for it. Some wings want to work with local teams, and will go to any lengths to do so. Inlcuding sacrificing our own identity.

I think there's probably a pretty fine line between working with locals, and selling out to them. A ground team uniform specified by an outside organization is an example.

If CAP had moved forward instead of lagging on some things, we might have had far more organizations wanting to be like us, instead of them wanting us to be like them.

Overall, if you can't see a Hi Viz vest, it's probably not very likely that a whole shirt is really going to make all that much difference.

Well I got a solution for that problem, if they wanna go play with the locals get out and go play with them but LEAVE our identities alone

Yes even safety is now being revamped too, do the folks at NHQ really LOVE to change things every month?

[mynetdude]

I may not get it

But the folks at CA OEM and the LE types may  not want the extra liability of having the less than 18 yr old crowd running around in BDU's.

Does that sound vaguely familiar?  Liability, CAP, and the newly minted and thrusting CAP safety program?

It is the States call and if CA OEM and LE folks do not want others running around in BDU's looking like a SWAT or tactical entry team...well then

Yep..... CAP has the vests...  But CA may want a little more than vests over the BDU's...they may want high viz CLOTHING as a standard.

Stand by to stand by................

You bring up a valid point which still keeps reappearing everywhere else in everything else we do but this goes back to "force protection".  I know we need the USAF and we WANT their support but do we NEED their uniform? Regulations allow us to use any approved uniform appropriate for the work we are doing on AFAMs which is to include the blue BDU/field uniform/flight jackets, etc.  I guess its not a solve all problem, blue=cop!

I can see us wearing a full hi-viz suit with the blue nametapes (cuz I don't think they will be able to see the nametapes??

[SarDragon]

This uniform is not a new thing within CAWG. The recent action is more of a revival.

I saw the old iteration, and it didn't look bad at all. Wearers were easily identifiable as CAP members. The shirts are more comfortable that BDU shirts, although they lack some of the more utilitarian features (pockets, etc).

[Hawk200]

Well I got a solution for that problem, if they wanna go play with the locals get out and go play with them but LEAVE our identities alone

I would agree. If some wings had stuck to their guns, instead of cowing, we wouldn't have outside agencies setting policy for us.

Of course, on another note, it could be a simple case of a wing wanting to be, or insisting on being, different. The attitude is not unusual. Two wings I have been in previously had their own uniforms when I was there (California being one of them) for Ground SAR ops, and those two uniforms only had an orange shirt in common.

I think there is an easy way around it, but it would require National to take a step, and then mandating that all the wings toe the line. If a Hi Vis uniform item is good in a few states, then it should be of use to other ones. And a standardized (and therefore uniform) item would keep everyone on the same page.

...do the folks at NHQ really LOVE to change things every month?

I'm assuming that's rhetorical? 

This uniform is not a new thing within CAWG. The recent action is more of a revival.

I saw the old iteration, and it didn't look bad at all. Wearers were easily identifiable as CAP members. The shirts are more comfortable that BDU shirts, although they lack some of the more utilitarian features (pockets, etc).

I remember that one from my time there. Everyone called it the "Cal Trans" uniform.

[iamchj]

On the copy of the "Notes from the May 1 NEC meeting and other items" from the Pacific Region sent to all Oregon Wing members by the Oregon Wing Commander, the last item within the notes reads, "Safety Apparel: Approved. This will required all GT members to wear safety color uniform. You need to read the requirement. It is very long. It will be posted soon."

Does anyone know where this information will be posted?
Does anyone know what this "safety color uniform" looks like?

The California Wing had a Ground Team uniform approved that includes the wearing of a blaze orange BDU shirt and blue BDU trousers a number of years ago. Does anyone know if the new Region GT "safety color uniform" is the same as the CA Wing Ground Team uniform, or is it different?

[mynetdude]

Well I got a solution for that problem, if they wanna go play with the locals get out and go play with them but LEAVE our identities alone

I would agree. If some wings had stuck to their guns, instead of cowing, we wouldn't have outside agencies setting policy for us.

Of course, on another note, it could be a simple case of a wing wanting to be, or insisting on being, different. The attitude is not unusual. Two wings I have been in previously had their own uniforms when I was there (California being one of them) for Ground SAR ops, and those two uniforms only had an orange shirt in common.

I think there is an easy way around it, but it would require National to take a step, and then mandating that all the wings toe the line. If a Hi Vis uniform item is good in a few states, then it should be of use to other ones. And a standardized (and therefore uniform) item would keep everyone on the same page.

...do the folks at NHQ really LOVE to change things every month?

I'm assuming that's rhetorical? 

This uniform is not a new thing within CAWG. The recent action is more of a revival.

I saw the old iteration, and it didn't look bad at all. Wearers were easily identifiable as CAP members. The shirts are more comfortable that BDU shirts, although they lack some of the more utilitarian features (pockets, etc).

I remember that one from my time there. Everyone called it the "Cal Trans" uniform.

Hawk, despite my dry humor and smart aleckyness yes its rhetorical

I don't mind the blue really, it stands out better IMHO, and yeah it does look like the cal trans uniform. A CHP DOT unit came out to assist my folks on US101 when our motorhome ran out of gas (my mom is so goofy) he was wearing the blue uniform it hadn't clicked at the time

[a2capt]

Probably different. After all, there' can't be uniformity among uniforms ... 

..or threads. Of both natures. There's another thread on this.

[Hawk200]

I don't mind the blue really, it stands out better IMHO, and yeah it does look like the cal trans uniform. A CHP DOT unit came out to assist my folks on US101 when our motorhome ran out of gas (my mom is so goofy) he was wearing the blue uniform it hadn't clicked at the time

The term was first mentioned to me by one of the CAWG GT guys during the quake relief in '94. I didn't really get it at the time, but noted the CA DOT guys wearing it the following week and laughed when it registered . The guy had made the statement in a tongue in cheek manner, but it was lost on me until later.

[mynetdude]

Probably different. After all, there' can't be uniformity among uniforms ... 

..or threads. Of both natures. There's another thread on this.

Yeah stop stealing my thunder!!!

FWIW this is a region polciy not a NHQ policy? Seems to be its a national policy not a region policy although the letter was distributed via region.

[Custer]

Interesting letter. What is the Air War "Collage"? Pictures pasted to cardboard? What is a "Sliver" Star? a sliced off portion of a whole star? Only in Alabama............

Major Lord

"This will required all GT members to wear safety color uniform."

Someone ran spell check on autopilot I think.

Did they give everyone with orange flight suits long enough to get rid of them before they phase them back in?  Assuming thats what "safety Color" is of course...

[mynetdude]

Interesting letter. What is the Air War "Collage"? Pictures pasted to cardboard? What is a "Sliver" Star? a sliced off portion of a whole star? Only in Alabama............

Major Lord

"This will required all GT members to wear safety color uniform."

Someone ran spell check on autopilot I think.

Did they give everyone with orange flight suits long enough to get rid of them before they phase them back in?  Assuming thats what "safety Color" is of course...

jeeze the spelling cops... give it a rest and I do my best to correct all of my spellings thank you.

Make everything orange! (actually someone mentioned getting DOC orange prison suits ) At least we won't be hard to find!