Hard to recruit adults to work with cadets?

[RiverAux]

Have any of you cadet programs folks experienced trouble trying to get other CAP members or potential recruits based on those people being worried about potential problems arising from cadet protection issues?  For example, do they say they don't want to get involved because they're worried about a cadet making false harrassment claims against them?

If you have run across this attitude, have you come up any good ways to address this concern? 

[DC]

This has been a big problem in my squadron. I would either grow your own, our current DCC was a former cadet in the squadron, or, probably t largest resource, look to your cadet's parents. We have two actual senior members that interact with the cadets on a regular basis (excluding O-ride pilots, and other stuff) but we have six or so Cadet Sponsors. They can supervise cadets, transport them and go to activities with them. While they may not be too much help with the actual Cadet Program, they are great for providing supervision. In my squadron the cadet program is almost entirely cadet-run, under the supervision of the DCC. For nearly all activities we have it is either the DCC or a Sponsor supervising, frequently both.

Other than that, look to people who don't mind being around kids, teachers, coaches, etc

[RiverAux]

Other than that, look to people who don't mind being around kids, teachers, coaches, etc

This is really more of an adult perception issue.  I think there are plenty of adults that would love to work more with kids, but horror stories you hear in the media about such adults getting in trobule over false accusations scare them away from it. 

[hatentx]

as long as you dont put yourself into situations that you can be accused.  Be above reproach on this one

[DC]

Other than that, look to people who don't mind being around kids, teachers, coaches, etc

This is really more of an adult perception issue.  I think there are plenty of adults that would love to work more with kids, but horror stories you hear in the media about such adults getting in trobule over false accusations scare them away from it. 

I know what you mean. I was once on a UDF mission with one other SM, and at about midnight the Group CC got wind that a cadet and a SM were alone on a mission. A new team was scrambled immediately because they were afraid of what might happen if one cadet and a SM were alone on a mission. The SM in question got his hindquarters chewed for it too. What gets me is that I cannot find anything stating that a cadet and Sm cannot prosecute a mission together. CAPR 52-16 and CAPR 52-10 make no mention of it, and the minimum team size for UDF is two people, which there were, so I don't see the problem. But, alas.

My squadron commander also has a policy in place that prohibits female cadets from attending overnight activities with out female SMs present. It killed us for years, the girls could never participate because none of the female SMs were willing to spend a weekend living in a tent for the cadets. It was frustrating, we offered to do an exclusion zone around the female tents, no males whatsoever unless a dire emergency thing, but he would not budge...

[RiverAux]

Your second situation is a result of a quite common myth about CAP cadet programs that even I know isn't backed up by a regulation. 

[D2SK]

Your second situation is a result of a quite common myth about CAP cadet programs that even I know isn't backed up by a regulation. 

CAPR 52-10 Section 4, para E. Requires two approved SMs.

In our wing, we have a CAPR 52-10 supplemental that requires that if one or more of the overnight cadets are female, then one of the two SMs must be a female.  Cadet sponsor members may be used to supplement the SM contingent in meeting this requirement, however, at least one of the individuals must be a SM.

[Eclipse]

I know what you mean. I was once on a UDF mission with one other SM, and at about midnight the Group CC got wind that a cadet and a SM were alone on a mission. A new team was scrambled immediately because they were afraid of what might happen if one cadet and a SM were alone on a mission. The SM in question got his hindquarters chewed for it too. What gets me is that I cannot find anything stating that a cadet and Sm cannot prosecute a mission together. CAPR 52-16 and CAPR 52-10 make no mention of it, and the minimum team size for UDF is two people, which there were, so I don't see the problem. But, alas.

You won't find it because it's not there. The regs say two senior members overnight, with no gender indication.  Otherwise, there is no indication of gender ratio or senior / adult ratio for any activities beyond "a senior must be present".

Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance on this stuff, and CYA is never a bad plan, as long as it doesn't get in the way of operations or common sense.

My squadron commander also has a policy in place that prohibits female cadets from attending overnight activities with out female SMs present. It killed us for years, the girls could never participate because none of the female SMs were willing to spend a weekend living in a tent for the cadets. It was frustrating, we offered to do an exclusion zone around the female tents, no males whatsoever unless a dire emergency thing, but he would not budge...

This is a tough one because it relays on the risk tolerance of the CC.  Were it me, I'd be working up the chain once I wore out reasonable discourse at the unit level - you can't exclude the female cadets from activities, and since there is no regulation to back him up, this might be one place that a cadet could have a legit discrimination grivence.

[hatentx]

I know in AD life style though a commander can add to but not take away from a regulation.  So if the Wing commander decides to add the restriction to a female cadet needing to have a female Sr. Member to go on over night missions.  I would think though in my mind with a Sr. member with no real thoughts of an issue as long as there are more than just the Sr with the Cadet of opposite gender I would feel fine.  Safety in numbers

[RiverAux]

getting slightly off topic....

[ADCAPer]

In our wing, we have a CAPR 52-10 supplemental that requires that if one or more of the overnight cadets are female, then one of the two SMs must be a female.

The first question is, is the supplement actually legal? If it is, you're stuck, if it's not, then it's time to start educating people on what exactly they can and can't do.

CAPR 52-10, 14 March 2008
This regulation is the official policy on cadet protection for the Civil Air Patrol (CAP) and describes CAP's policies concerning the procedures for identifying, reporting, and responding to cadet abuse situations. Supplements to this regulation require NHQ CAP/CP approval with the concurrence of NHQ CAP/GC. Note: Shaded areas identify new or revised material.

[LittleIronPilot]

Have any of you cadet programs folks experienced trouble trying to get other CAP members or potential recruits based on those people being worried about potential problems arising from cadet protection issues?  For example, do they say they don't want to get involved because they're worried about a cadet making false harrassment claims against them?

If you have run across this attitude, have you come up any good ways to address this concern? 

Yes....me to a degree and several SM's I know.

Sorry...perception or not, in todays litigious society I am not about to risk it all on the whims of a hormonally driven teenager.

[afgeo4]

Yes, it's tough. There are two 3 ways to get around this:

1. Recruit from within.
        Many members are impressed by cadets once they join for other reasons and want to be more involved in regular unit meetings. These members are great for CP if they show promise as leaders.

2. Recruit from parents.
        Good parents are interested in what their kids do and would like to tag along to supervise anyway. Make them patron members first and then a few months later approach about full membership and CP position if they again, show potential for leadership.

3. Recruit from schools.
        Schools have lots of adults who are interested in working with the youth (and some who aren't). Many are uniquely skilled at it in fact. Invite your cadets' teachers to teacher's day at your unit and talk about CP and AE. Let them know that you're desperate for help.

[mikeylikey]

This is a tough issue.......I will let those with more experience ponder away.  I will say though, Mikey protects himself almost anally.  I have witnessed two CAP Officers set themselves up for failure.  The first, went behind closed doors with a female cadet at ENC for a few minutes to counsel her.  She came out crying, because she was being punished, but to everyone around when she came out followed by the Officer, it looked bad.  We had to dismiss him from Encampment because she later said he put his arm around her.  The second incident was (again at Encampment) when an Officer decided to play around with a cadet he knew, and grabbed him and pretended to strangle him. We also let that Officer go, because it just plain looked bad. 

You never know what a Cadet will say happened between you and he or she when alone.  Some may be pressured by their parents so they can get a quick buck by suing.  You just don't know.

I always have a second adult, or if none available, two other cadets present when I have to meet with a cadet for counseling and whatnot.  Heck, I even do that in the Army, when I call in a Soldier for counseling, or to discuss punitive or non-punitive punishments I am giving them, I haver their NCO supervisor in with me.  When I meet with female Officers, I always have another female officer with me.  Its called protecting my career, reputation, lifestyle and my families lifestyle!  Too many horror stories out there. 

PLUS I watch enough of JAG to know how you can get screwed over just by rumor, or false accusation, or the appearance of impropriety.   

[lordmonar]

From my experince...I have never had trouble recruiting adults due to CPP issues.  Usually people who are scared of dealing with cadets don't volunteer. 

In turn I have never had a problem getting people to volunteer to work with the cadets....it is usually getting them to volunteer for the ES and AE side of things that is ussually harder.

[Eclipse]

This is a tough issue.......I will let those with more experience ponder away.  I will say though, Mikey protects himself almost anally.  I have witnessed two CAP Officers set themselves up for failure.  The first, went behind closed doors with a female cadet at ENC for a few minutes to counsel her.  She came out crying, because she was being punished, but to everyone around when she came out followed by the Officer, it looked bad.  We had to dismiss him from Encampment because she later said he put his arm around her.  The second incident was (again at Encampment) when an Officer decided to play around with a cadet he knew, and grabbed him and pretended to strangle him. We also let that Officer go, because it just plain looked bad. 

You never know what a Cadet will say happened between you and he or she when alone.  Some may be pressured by their parents so they can get a quick buck by suing.  You just don't know.

I always have a second adult, or if none available, two other cadets present when I have to meet with a cadet for counseling and whatnot.  Heck, I even do that in the Army, when I call in a Soldier for counseling, or to discuss punitive or non-punitive punishments I am giving them, I haver their NCO supervisor in with me.  When I meet with female Officers, I always have another female officer with me.  Its called protecting my career, reputation, lifestyle and my families lifestyle!  Too many horror stories out there. 

PLUS I watch enough of JAG to know how you can get screwed over just by rumor, or false accusation, or the appearance of impropriety.   

That's the worst part of the situation - the accusation almost always convicts you, regardless of the facts.

Everything above is what we drill into our people >not< to do, especially in a situation where it is unnecessary.

My issue is situations as mentioned where commanders paralyze themselves or negatively impact the experience for one gender or another and then cite non-existent regulations.

From what the RDC's have told us about hazing, correction, and remediation, the USN avoids at all costs being alone
with a recruit for the same reasons stated.

I, of course, use ORM to avoid the hazing trap, at all times.  As corny as that sounds, the principles in those classes are actually effective and valid, I just wish I didn't have to sit through them 2-3 times a year+.

[Al Sayre]

I've had my best results recruiting families, the parent's generally like working with the cadets, and if you can get them involved in ES, so much the better.  I've got at least 3 families including mine where everyone is UDF and/or GT qual'd.  As an IC, I have sent 1 SM & 1 Cadet out on 2 a.m. UDF/ELT hunts (parent + cadet) and had no issues from a CPPT standpoint. 

Besides, I'm not sure that a UDF/ELT mission would meet the "overnight activity" standard since they usually only last a couple of hours... YMMV
   

[Fifinella]

Random thoughts:

We get the majority of our adults from parents or former cadets.

Because our DCC has worked with children for the USAF for over 30 years, we have more restrictions in our squadron than most.  We believe the restrictions protect both the cadets and the SMs. 

We do not accept any situation where an adult is alone with a child.  If an adult must drive a child alone (strongly discouraged), the child sits in the back seat.  The only time we would send out a 1SM-1cadet UDF team is if they were parent/child.

If there is no one else available when an adult must counsel a child, we use the guideline: counsel where no one can overhear you, but everyone can see you.  This is also a good practice for any one male-one female counseling session, regardless of the ages of the participants.  I also use some of the two-person counseling techniques mentioned by mikeylikey.

As a female CP SM, I am often called to provide overnight supervision for female cadets.  The gender restriction seems to be common practice in many wings.  Most people tell me they adapted the guideline from the Boy Scouts.  It can be overly restrictive, and can cause a lot of work for the few female SMs.  I would personally be ok with a female cadet at an overnight activity without a female SM if her SM/Sponsor member father was present.

Quote from Eclipse:

My issue is situations as mentioned where commanders paralyze themselves or negatively impact the experience for one gender or another and then cite non-existent regulations.

I agree with the sentiment, and work very hard to optimize the cadets' experiences, but as the CC, I must ensure the protection of all of the squadron members.  Society has changed, and one is wise to be mindful of the hazards.

[ADCAPer]

Protecting yourself is wise, but you also need to ensure that you aren't exposing the organization to a discrimination complaint.

If anyone is excluding Cadets from activities based on their gender, because they can't locate a female member, then they are in violation of CAP Reg 39-2, 1-1(b).

The proper thing for a Unit CC to do would be to ensure that the Senior Members who are going to be supervising the activities are well aware of their responsibilities, and then ensure that the Cadets and their parents/guardians are aware of how CAP's Cadet Protection Program works.

Again, this is a common problem in CAP, but no one gets to make up their own rules, you play by the regulations, otherwise you are wrong, and the corporation can face liability.

[arajca]

<ROCK>  RMR Units <HARD PLACE>

RMR has a policy that if you have cadets of both genders overnighting at an activity, you need to have SM's of both genders. In theory, if you only have female SM's, the male cadets cannot attend, but I haven't seen that situation, mainly, IMHO, because of machoism.

To reconcile these two opposite policies, the best course of action would be to not have overnight activities.