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Author Topic: BSA to admit girls starting in 2018, Eagle progression by 2019  (Read 2313 times)
Eclipse
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« on: October 11, 2017, 06:26:33 PM »

http://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/bsa-expands-programs-welcome-girls-cub-scouts-highest-rank-eagle-scout/

"Irving, Texas – October 11, 2017 – Today, the Boy Scouts of America Board of Directors unanimously approved to welcome girls into its iconic Cub Scout program and to deliver a Scouting program for older girls that will enable them to advance and earn the highest rank of Eagle Scout. The historic decision comes after years of receiving requests from families and girls, the organization evaluated the results of numerous research efforts, gaining input from current members and leaders, as well as parents and girls who’ve never been involved in Scouting – to understand how to offer families an important additional choice in meeting the character development needs of all their children."

CAP already competes for time and attention in many areas with the BSA, I can't imagine this will make things
any better - the issue of divided and limited family time is legitimate and I know has been cited by members of my
kids' Troop as a real problem, not to mention by a few cadets over the years.

Interesting to say the least, and the GSA is "not amused", most likely knowing that this will significantly
impact their retention and recruiting. They'd probably be better off merging and developing a single "Scouting" program
at this point, vs. trying to compete.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 08:57:34 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Panzerbjorn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 279
Unit: MER-NC-048

« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 06:49:32 PM »

The BSA has been dealing with a PR nightmare for years due to the LBGT scout issue.  People are not very forgiving even despite policy changes and as a significant number of troops are hosted by churches, who knows what this policy change will do to that support. So, a surge of new Scouts won’t be immediate.  There will be the usual pushback and then gradual acceptance of implementation.  What it looks like to me is that they’re taking something that already exists in the Explorers program and making it available to all for the 10-18 year olds.

 As an Eagle Scout, I do welcome women Eagle Scouts, as the Eagle Scout award has a tremendous amount of notoriety.  Few of those outside of CAP know what a Spaatz Award is, and only slightly more know the Girl Scouts’ equivalent, the Gold Award.  So the notoriety of the Eagle Scout would be the advantage of this program change.  Otherwise, why would it be necessary when there are other equivalent programs.
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Major
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Eagle Scout
kcebnaes
Member

Posts: 99
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 08:49:56 PM »

It's probably a good idea to start bringing the BSA(and maybe the GSA??) to better alignment with the way that World Scouting is headed anyways.
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Maj Sean Beck
Ohio Wing
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CAPLTC
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 09:36:49 PM »

This is silly.
If they want to join a co-ed high adventure youth program, they should join CAP...
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Eclipse
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 10:09:39 PM »

This is silly.
If they want to join a co-ed high adventure youth program, they should join CAP...

On the mean, the BSA is involved in significantly more "HAAs" then CAP.

In fact, the majority of CAP members, cadet nor senior, ever get near anything that's
remotely an "HAA".

While it's only anecdotal, this issue has been cited to me any number of times by dual-hatted
cadets, x-cadets, and parents as a retention issue.  The average experience of the average cadet
is weekly meetings and hopefully an encampment somewhere.  The number participating
in anything beyond that isn't zero, but it's also not statistically (very) significant.

WAG - maybe ~5% annually?
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

EMT-83
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Posts: 1,825

« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 07:06:02 AM »

A clear sign that end times are near.
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TheSkyHornet
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Posts: 936

« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2017, 01:40:39 PM »

This is silly.
If they want to join a co-ed high adventure youth program, they should join CAP...

My first thought.


On the mean, the BSA is involved in significantly more "HAAs" then CAP.

In fact, the majority of CAP members, cadet nor senior, ever get near anything that's
remotely an "HAA".

While it's only anecdotal, this issue has been cited to me any number of times by dual-hatted
cadets, x-cadets, and parents as a retention issue.  The average experience of the average cadet
is weekly meetings and hopefully an encampment somewhere.  The number participating
in anything beyond that isn't zero, but it's also not statistically (very) significant.

WAG - maybe ~5% annually?

My second thought.


Except for fitness standards, males and females, on nearly all accounts, are equals in CAP.

That said, while the activities and opportunities we offer are outstanding, they're far and few compared to the weekly meeting. CAP, in itself, is not a high-adventure activity organization. We've been plagued with restrictions that make some of those things very difficult (whether the regs say we can do them with approval or not, and when we can, they more often than not get turned down).

What I don't want to see is CAP fall to the way of the modern-day media phony outrage and scare tactics to change our principles. Frankly, if anything, the headline should be "Boy Scouts catch up to Civil Air Patrol---75 years behind."
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CAPLTC
Member

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Unit: MER

« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 07:24:45 PM »

This is silly.
If they want to join a co-ed high adventure youth program, they should join CAP...

On the mean, the BSA is involved in significantly more "HAAs" then CAP.

In fact, the majority of CAP members, cadet nor senior, ever get near anything that's
remotely an "HAA".

While it's only anecdotal, this issue has been cited to me any number of times by dual-hatted
cadets, x-cadets, and parents as a retention issue.  The average experience of the average cadet
is weekly meetings and hopefully an encampment somewhere.  The number participating
in anything beyond that isn't zero, but it's also not statistically (very) significant.

WAG - maybe ~5% annually?

I, personally, run 4 to 6 HAAs for nearby CAP units every year.
Maybe that is not a lot...
If money were no object, I could do 2/month.

Agree about the average experience being lacking.
I find the cadet program a bit cumbersome to administer and the curriculum does not seem to directly apply without a degree of adaptation. I struggle with it.
Shooting, climbing, rapelling is much easier to teach. :)
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etodd
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Posts: 867

« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2017, 08:55:41 PM »

Waking up in a tent on a mild morning. Gathering wood and starting a fire. Cooking eggs, bacon and grits over the fire, enjoying the aromas of it in the great outdoors, and then getting ready to hike to the lake for fishing. Then rappelling in the afternoon.

CAP is so 'apples and oranges' from BSA. No way to compare the two at all, in terms of activities.
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Panzerbjorn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 279
Unit: MER-NC-048

« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 09:05:50 AM »

Waking up in a tent on a mild morning. Gathering wood and starting a fire. Cooking eggs, bacon and grits over the fire, enjoying the aromas of it in the great outdoors, and then getting ready to hike to the lake for fishing. Then rappelling in the afternoon.

CAP is so 'apples and oranges' from BSA. No way to compare the two at all, in terms of activities.

Precisely!  Occasionally I’ll hear some of our cadets making fun of Scouts and how they’re the ones who always have to rescue them in the woods.  I remind them that it’s a pair of Eagle Scouts that teach them how to even camp in the woods.  We take our cadets camping on the beach every year and skills we take for granted as Scouts aren’t even considered by many cadets.
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Major
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Eagle Scout
etodd
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Posts: 867

« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 02:06:08 PM »


Occasionally I’ll hear some of our cadets making fun of Scouts and how they’re the ones who always have to rescue them in the woods.

Your Cadets have actually done this, or just mouthing off?
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Panzerbjorn
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Unit: MER-NC-048

« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 04:01:50 PM »


Occasionally I’ll hear some of our cadets making fun of Scouts and how they’re the ones who always have to rescue them in the woods.

Your Cadets have actually done this, or just mouthing off?

Harmless mouthing off.
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Major
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EMT-83
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 04:04:07 PM »

A lost Boy Scout seems to be included in every graded exercise. Truth be told, a scout would be more likely to rescue a lost cadet.
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isuhawkeye
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John's web site
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2017, 05:17:20 PM »

has cap ever actually rescued a scout?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2017, 05:35:37 PM »

A lost Boy Scout seems to be included in every graded exercise. Truth be told, a scout would be more likely to rescue a lost cadet.

Based on what, exactly?

The average Scout is no more, or less prepared than a Cadet to be involved in SAR.

You could make the argument that am Eagle Scout, or one on the Eagle Track, is more prepared to survive
in a wilderness environment then a Spaatz, since they have to have completed the Camping merit badge, and the Emergency Preparedness
badge might help, but a Spaatz need never go near the woods, or utter the words "SAR", but
on the average, most Scout camping is as much "glamping" as camping, and fully supervised
by parents.

When you start talking about extra badges like Hiking, Orienteering, and maybe OA, those Scouts will
be "better then average", but still it's mostly about self-care, whereas a cadet GTM is at least ensconced in the
ideas and nomenclature of SARexs.

The reality is that on the average neither is going to be prepared to do much but yell themselves horse.
 
The Scout won't be allowed to make a fire or cut kindling because his mom will have both his Firem'n Chit and his Totin' Chip
cards in her purse, and the Cadet will spend his time trying to get a cell signal so he can ask his Unit CC to approve his 101 card.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 05:40:02 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Luis R. Ramos
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Posts: 2,535

« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2017, 06:43:20 PM »

Quote
From Eclipse...

...the Cadet will spend his time trying to get a cell signal so he can ask his Unit CC to approve his 101 card.


This has not been my experience with cadets... What I find is that cadets spend their time folding over and over their 101 cards instead of cutting and gluing as instructed...

 >:D
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Eclipse
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2017, 06:44:53 PM »

True enough - also the ongoing discussions regarding "official" paper color.
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Toad1168
Forum Regular

Posts: 131
Unit: NCR-MO-110

« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2017, 09:36:09 AM »



You could make the argument that am Eagle Scout, or one on the Eagle Track, is more prepared to survive
in a wilderness environment then a Spaatz, since they have to have completed the Camping merit badge, and the Emergency Preparedness
badge might help, but a Spaatz need never go near the woods, or utter the words "SAR", but
on the average, most Scout camping is as much "glamping" as camping, and fully supervised
by parents.

.
[/quote]

Hey easy now, I am well prepared to survive in the wilderness as a Spaatz.  I have survived many a two star hotel......
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Mike Toedebusch
Spaatz Award 1168 - 1 June 1993
Johnny Yuma
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 594

« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2017, 11:21:39 PM »

A noble gesture by the BSA, albeit wrong.

Girls are wanting into the Boy Scouts because the Girls Scouts have gotten away from doing the things both groups did that the Girl Scouts no longer do. Even in my area the Girls Scouts are doing everything they can to shutter all of the outdoor camp facilities under the guise of cost saving, meanwhile their CEO of the Girl Scout area council that covers Eastern KS and Western MO is pulling down a quarter million dollar salary! 

They'd have been better off creating a new parallel program for girls or creating a new program under the Exploring. In the end I think all this will do is gravitiate more kids away from the Boy and Girl scouts and toward groups like Trail Life and Heritage Girls.
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"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"
 
" Skip a bit, brother."
 
"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:
stillamarine
400,000th Post Author
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« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2017, 11:01:05 AM »

It will be a parallel program. Girls will not be members of male boy scout troops.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: BSA to admit girls starting in 2018, Eagle progression by 2019
 


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