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December 18, 2017, 06:59:46 AM
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: What CAP-Talk Was, And What Its Become
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Author Topic: What CAP-Talk Was, And What Its Become  (Read 5718 times)
GrantHenninger
Recruit

Posts: 6

« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2017, 05:16:24 PM »

People get the "chain of command" response because that should be the primary source of information for all members. If someone comes on here and asks questions without having consulted that primary source, then you are doing them and yourself a disservice.
You and I both know that the chain of command isn't always a useful place to find help or information. It really doesn't matter if you're C/Amn Snuffy asking your Flight Sergeant, or a Squadron Commander asking you Group Commander. There are many times when I've had to find information outside of my chain of command because they didn't know the answer and were unhelpful in getting the answer to my questions.

A very simple change from the typical response would be to reframe it as a question and start a dialog. Instead of "Go ask your chain of command," simply change it to, "Have you asked your chain of command?" or "Where have you looked for answers to your question before asking it here?" But honestly, it's just as easy and probably teaches the member more if you say something more along the lines of, "You can answer your question by asking your chain of command, or by looking in CAPR XYZ, CAPP ABC, or the knowledgebase."
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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,825

« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2017, 07:47:20 PM »

You'll find that answers are more forthcoming if it's made clear that the person asking the question isn't simply being lazy.

"I checked 39-1, but it's still not clear" or "My PDO doesn't know, so I'm asking here" will probably open the floodgates.

I'm a firm believer in teaching someone to fish instead of just handing over the catch of the day. Long term, it will make them a better member. That's much better than instant gratification in my book.
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JAFO78
Seasoned Member

Posts: 388

« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2017, 12:41:48 AM »

I too have been posting and reading for a long time. I had a SM tell me you can't post that here, Someone will notice and no we have zero issues.
I have returned to CAPTalk just tonight. why?? Looking for answers that I can't find or tried of def ears, and not for the lack of trying.

At times I feel like standing on a desk at our local meeting or going higher up and scream "WE NEED HELP"
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JAFO
KG7YTS
Recruit

Posts: 11
Unit: SWR-AZ-229

« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2017, 08:56:39 PM »

Back in 2014, I did notice a lot of "yelling" by people, but as I am rejoining CAP, I came back to CAPTalk, and lo and behold it has changed for the better, the people here are so much more friendly now. There have been so many questions that I have had about rejoining and guess what, I asked and got an answer almost immediately... Thanks everybody who is so helpful on CAPTalk. A lot of squadrons I have visited, not my current one, label CAPTalk as people just complaining about no ABUs or OCP uniforms, but CAPTalk is awesome and I recommend anybody who has a question about CAP to come here.
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Commo
Recruit

Posts: 45
Unit: PCR-WA-002

« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2017, 08:14:22 PM »

People get the "chain of command" response because that should be the primary source of information for all members. If someone comes on here and asks questions without having consulted that primary source, then you are doing them and yourself a disservice.

I respectfully disagree with this statement: that no one should ask questions here without having already asked the squadron CO. 

IMPO, the primary source of information should be regs and standards (formalized), perhaps a squadron mentor (informal), or a forum to ask intelligent questions in the hope of receiving intelligent answers (also informal.)

My squadron CO is a busy man.  I'm new to CAP and may be blond, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist an aerospace officer to see that the adage of 80% of the work falls on 20% of the people holds true.  (Or 90% of the work on 10% of the people).  Either way, my squadron CO is a busy man, as are the other core seniors.  I can, and do, email them with questions when reading the regs is incomplete, contradictory, or both.  For those questions with incomplete/contradictory regs, this forum *should* be a great resource because that question has likely been asked before, but for the examples I'm thinking of, I did not ask the forum.  Why?  1) I didn't want to start a uniform topic that would likely become Yet Another Uniform Topic,  2) an answer of "go read 39-1", when I already have and it's unclear, or 3) an expected answer of "go ask your chain of command".

Don't get me wrong: I'm a firm believer in doing your own research first before asking a question.  Pointing someone towards a manual with a direction to their answer will provide more knowledge than just the answer.  It will also provide a more complete answer to a more complete question.  However, with the current state of CAP regs (outdated, incomplete, contradictory, or maybe best understood with an underlying GOB/GOG "Well, that's how CAP has always done it), it is darn difficult to find all the answers there.

I agree: sometimes the answer should be a gentle / firm / less so response of "Have you googled that?"  (Sometimes the answer is obvious... although sometimes google provides the answer only if you know the correct CAP terminology to use.  New seniors and cadet parents do not).

I also agree: sometimes the correct answer is a local procedure.  A forum response could be a correct answer to one wing but not to the poster (so wrong), or a correct answer to a question out of context (which is then wrong, too).

I disagree: some of the "ask your chain of command" responses to questions that seemed like poster had done homework but still had questions, and topic was not of a local procedure.

;tldr:  if all questions are to be asked only to local squadron, why have this forum?

Respectfully,

Commo



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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,089
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2017, 09:49:04 PM »


;tldr:  if all questions are to be asked only to local squadron, why have this forum?


Great Q. I'll answer this one first, and then work through the rest.

We are here to exchange information, anything from local how-tos to national level stuff. This exchange can be via questions from our members, or a voluntary sharing of information of interest.


IMPO, the primary source of information should be regs and standards (formalized), perhaps a squadron mentor (informal), or a forum to ask intelligent questions in the hope of receiving intelligent answers (also informal.)

My squadron CO is a busy man.  I'm new to CAP and may be blond, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist an aerospace officer to see that the adage of 80% of the work falls on 20% of the people holds true.  (Or 90% of the work on 10% of the people).  Either way, my squadron CO is a busy man, as are the other core seniors. 


I agree wholeheartedly.

My reference to the chain of command involves everyone in that chain, not just the commander. Cadets should start with their lowest level "supervisor", and escalate upward as necessary. Seniors should start with the staff officer most closely related to the problem area. The commander is a last resort.

If any of these folks don't know an answer, it is incumbent upon them to aid in resolving the issue. Simply answering "I don't know" and ending the discussion, a response heard all too often, is poor leadership.

You'll find that answers are more forthcoming if it's made clear that the person asking the question isn't simply being lazy.

"I checked 39-1, but it's still not clear" or "My PDO doesn't know, so I'm asking here" will probably open the floodgates.

I'm a firm believer in teaching someone to fish instead of just handing over the catch of the day. Long term, it will make them a better member. That's much better than instant gratification in my book.

This pretty much says it all.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: What CAP-Talk Was, And What Its Become
 


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