CAP Phone Scam?

[RiverAux]

Am I reading this story right ttp://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070420/NEWS/704200325/1001?  It appears to say that CAP and the OR Volunteer Firefighters Association were soliciting for funds for themselves but pretending to be for a sheriffs SAR team. 

[fyrfitrmedic]

Am I reading this story right ttp://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070420/NEWS/704200325/1001?  It appears to say that CAP and the OR Volunteer Firefighters Association were soliciting for funds for themselves but pretending to be for a sheriffs SAR team. 

Wow.

That's incredibly bad juju if there's any truth to the story.

[CadetProgramGuy]

The article reads:

Possible phone scam investigation concluded

April 20, 2007

Linn County officials concluded a possible phone scam that solicited donations originated from legitimate organizations.

Sheriff Tim Mueller said deputies received more than 30 people reported a possible scam in which a caller solicits donations for a sheriff's search-and-rescue team. The sheriff's office does not conduct phone solicitations for its programs.

Deputies determined the calls were coming from at least two legitimate fundraising organizations, the Oregon Volunteer Firefighters Association and the Oregon Civil Air Patrol, which performs search- and-rescue missions using aircraft.

-- Ruth Liao

[mikeylikey]

MY guess is that it is one guy soliciting funds for both his CAP unit his firefighters association.  Bad publicity either way.

[JC004]

Maybe they could have got away with it if they didn't both decide to be the sheriff's office.   

Something strange here...   

[wingnut]

Heads will roll

Deputies determined the calls were coming from at least two legitimate fundraising organizations, the Oregon Volunteer Firefighters Association and the Oregon Civil Air Patrol, which performs search- and-rescue missions using aircraft.

I think we should charge the pilot who leaves his ELT on a $500 fee

[Chris Jacobs]

The link wont open for me.

[DNall]

If CAP goes from quasi-govt agency to soliciting funds on the phone, with telemarketer tactics, then I'm gone. I gone no time to be associated with that sort of crap. Either it can become the great thing I see it has the potential for, or it can accept squaller & desend further w/o my help. I can't imagine the Wg CC giving persmission for something like that, or keeping their job if they did, and any member that did that or commissioned it w/o permission should be suspended. Either way the IG needs to take a look.

[RiverAux]

Don't we have a reg about paying people to solicit funds for us?

[Pumbaa]

OK addressing the report first... Understand this can also be a mix of calls and the news is reporting it all together...

Legit call - Hi we are from CAP, we perform search and recscue and stuff from planes, we need stuff for mission training and cadet activities, send money.

Legit call - Hi we are the local volunteer firefighters, we do stuff to help people and need to purchase new search and recue gear, Send money.

Bad Call - hi this is the Sheriffs SAR team, we need stuff, send money.

News report - ... more than 30 people reported a possible scam in which a caller solicits donations for a sheriff's search-and-rescue team. The sheriff's office does not conduct phone solicitations for its programs.

Deputies determined the calls were coming from at least two legitimate fundraising organizations...

Now adressing fund raising... I do beleive that any type of fund raising needs to be approved by the powers that be first... and I am with DNall, if CAP resorts to hiring a fundraising company or using the same techniques of one, then I am history as well. I worked 15 years for a non-profit org and we NEVER resorted to phone calls to raise funds. I won't be a part of it.

[fyrfitrmedic]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the use of third-party fundraising firms like that described in this thread was strictly forbidden.

[DNall]

If a member is calling around like that, CHOP!!!! If a unit is acting like that or permiting that action, then SMASH!!!

There is NO circumstance under which I would allow any sort of fundraising directly from the public. I'm frankly embarassed that we have to raise funds at the local unit level at all. That's disgusting!!! I too worked in a non-profit that raised millions & there is no way in hell we'd debase ourselves & soil the name of the organizaiton like that.

We provide public service, not one for which the public should be guilt tripped into repaying us. I'm okay with going to the VFW/rotary club/etc for specific things that benefit cadets. For ES needs we look for companies to donate things or money for specific thing sthat significantly impact our capabilities & readiness. The farthest I will go is I'll let cadets wash planes on the the field, cause it's inside the aviation community & only because the money goes directly back to fun stuff for cadets & maybe even flight time. That's IT though, no further down that slope!

[Capt Rivera]

To those saying you will leave. Get your panties out of the bunch they are in. Obviously this is not something NHQ is knowingly letting happen. Someone may or may not have messed up. Until you see a CAP person charged for a crime and until you see a Sq commander or above get the boot for it, you can probably assume it was a very secluded incident. Have more faith in this organization you all just finished saying was great.

[DNall]

I didn't say I'd leave over the article/investigation. I said I'd leave if CAP started acting like this. CAP is a quasi-govt agency & a paramilitary org. That means it should act like it is both a govt agency & the military, which means tehre is no place for begging. We are tax payer supported & 99% of the "fundraising" that goes on should be grants at the national level. The only time any local fundraising of any kind is okay with me ethically is inter-organizational stuff, never with our hand out, and always for above the standards programs. Otherwise you need to just take out your personal check book & start writing and ask your fellow members to do the same.

I got an inter-state company to run, employees that count on me, a military committment, continuing education, high moral standards, and no time whatsoever for BS. Either CAP can keep up, which I hope like hell it can, or I can spend more time with other priorities & uniforms.

[flyerthom]

OK addressing the report first... Understand this can also be a mix of calls and the news is reporting it all together...

Legit call - Hi we are from CAP, we perform search and recscue and stuff from planes, we need stuff for mission training and cadet activities, send money.

Legit call - Hi we are the local volunteer firefighters, we do stuff to help people and need to purchase new search and recue gear, Send money.

Bad Call - hi this is the Sheriffs SAR team, we need stuff, send money.

News report - ... more than 30 people reported a possible scam in which a caller solicits donations for a sheriff's search-and-rescue team. The sheriff's office does not conduct phone solicitations for its programs.

Deputies determined the calls were coming from at least two legitimate fundraising organizations...

Now adressing fund raising... I do beleive that any type of fund raising needs to be approved by the powers that be first... and I am with DNall, if CAP resorts to hiring a fundraising company or using the same techniques of one, then I am history as well. I worked 15 years for a non-profit org and we NEVER resorted to phone calls to raise funds. I won't be a part of it.

Most likely - the media - who could screw up turning a door knob - messed up the facts to crank out a sensationalist story that will sell adds, um I mean warn the public. After all  <sarcasm> those redneck fire boys and the evil military are taking money the newspaper stockholders should get </sarcasm> um I mean the paper is protecting the public

[RiverAux]

I too think it likely that the media messed up this story somehow. This operation must have been extremely messed up to generate so many complaint calls.  I find it hard to believe it was actually sanctioned by the local CAP and almost certainly wasn't by the Wing Commander.  I suspect that if CAP was actually involved at all, it was one guy operating on his own who was probably also a member of the other agency mentioned. 

[mikeylikey]

I know when I phone scam people I always thank them for their money at the end of the conversation.  REMEMBER a little "Thank You" will make the person you just scammed think you are nice.  Then they won't call the cops on you!

As far as this situation, Watch it be two CAP guys from  the same unit, who made up call lists, but accidentally had the same 30 or so people on both lists.  I guess we all can't be awesome!  I hope who ever did this enjoys his or her 6 to 12 months of county jail.  Perhaps they will learn a foreign language while they are wasting away!

[jimmydeanno]

I agree, tele-marketer tactics and such are an inappropriate action for this organization.  However, this does allude into the FAILING fund raising techniques of NHQ. 

There is obviously something wrong with the way our Non-Profit side handles the way they raise money. 

1. Shouldn't the National Board be the main fundraising organization in CAP?  Instead they are a drain.

2. Why don't they hit up their members for donations?  A simple, "Don't forget about us at tax-time," would probably result in some extra cash flow.

3. Planned giving - get people to put the organization in their wills...EVERY legitimate non-profit does this.

4. To raise money they have to spend some.  Seeking out corporate donations takes people to "smooze" and legitimize the donation.

5. Most normal corporate grants stipulate that the organization still contribute "x" dollars towards a program to qualify for a grant.  In CAPs case, the grants they get, they pull that amount of money out of the program they are supporting.  i.e. CAP gets a donation to fund CLA, they get 50K.  Instead of using that 50K in addition to their intitial seed money, CAP pulls 50K out of the CLA budget from corporate dollars. (CLA was just used as an example, not necessarily factual for that specific activity)

Something needs to happen, all these new policy changes that are going on with the head honcho are putting us into debt, I'd assume anywhere from 1/2 a year behind on the budget.  So one of three things can happen...1) membership dues go up by 50%, 2) the organization goes bankrupt from failed leadership, 3) they spend some money to raise funds and get some cash flow back into the system that isn't federally appropriated.

[mikeylikey]

The Wings need to go out and get money.  Hit up the state legislature for a fair share of ES $$$.  The FEDS give it to the states, who in turn give it to the first couple organizations that hit them up.  There is no reason CAP Wings should not be receiving $100,000 to $500,000!

[jimmydeanno]

These are all great things for the ES side of the house, but ES isn't the only expense that CAP has.  I am speaking in regards to the "non-profit" side.  What funding is recieved for AE, CP(less O'Flights), PD, it comes out of corporate money, not appropriated money. 

We would be able to hire more people to help the organization grow, reduce costs to members (encampments, pd courses, etc.) advertise, etc. if we had a strong fund-raising program.

I think CAP needs severe help in this arena.