ABU and AFJROTC

[RiverAux]

While it is true that CAP has not made any official request for ABUs, but does anyone think that this is because CAP's leaders just hadn't considered it?  That they forgot? 

My theory is that they were informally told by CAP-USAF at some point that they shouldn't make that request just yet.  Early on this was probably due to legitimate supply issues.  But, if they've been putting AFJROTC in them, that is no longer a valid reason.

That being said, with all the rumors of another possible AF uniform switch, I'm actually on board with NHQ taking a slow approach to making a request now.  If there is any chance that the AF may switch in the next few years, switching to ABUs now wouldn't make much sense.  But, if the AF is committed to the ABU, then we should start the switch immediately (and go to white letters on navy blue patches and tapes)

[MSG Mac]

PLease check the note on CAP's National website re: ABU's.

DoD policy prevents the transfer, donation, and sale of digitized camouflage pattern uniforms to anyone outside the USAF with very few exceptions. Unfortunately Civil Air Patrol is not one of the exceptions. This prohibition is necessary to protect the unique technologies used in developing the uniform.

The National Board has placed a hold on all uniform changes pending a review of the entire CAP uniform structure. This review is ongoing by the CAP National Uniform Committee and a draft report will be presented to the Summer National Board Meeting in Baltimore in August 2012. The presentation will be available online via web stream but all CAP members are encouraged to attend.

From E-services dated 28 December 2011

[abdsp51]

Are you referring to the eservices announcement that was mentioned on another thread?

[abdsp51]

That being said, with all the rumors of another possible AF uniform switch, I'm actually on board with NHQ taking a slow approach to making a request now.  If there is any chance that the AF may switch in the next few years, switching to ABUs now wouldn't make much sense.  But, if the AF is committed to the ABU, then we should start the switch immediately (and go to white letters on navy blue patches and tapes)

Rumors are just that rumors.  I have not heard anything through AF channels both official or unofficial about a switch anytime soon.

[MSG Mac]

Are you referring to the eservices announcement that was mentioned on another thread?

Yes

[RiverAux]

That being said, with all the rumors of another possible AF uniform switch, I'm actually on board with NHQ taking a slow approach to making a request now.  If there is any chance that the AF may switch in the next few years, switching to ABUs now wouldn't make much sense.  But, if the AF is committed to the ABU, then we should start the switch immediately (and go to white letters on navy blue patches and tapes)

Rumors are just that rumors.  I have not heard anything through AF channels both official or unofficial about a switch anytime soon.

Thats why I put several qualifiers in my statement. 

[NCRblues]

That being said, with all the rumors of another possible AF uniform switch, I'm actually on board with NHQ taking a slow approach to making a request now.  If there is any chance that the AF may switch in the next few years, switching to ABUs now wouldn't make much sense.  But, if the AF is committed to the ABU, then we should start the switch immediately (and go to white letters on navy blue patches and tapes)

Rumors are just that rumors.  I have not heard anything through AF channels both official or unofficial about a switch anytime soon.

Considering that the CMSGT of the AF has said publicly several times that ABUs are here to stay by order of the US congress and budget oversight committee......

[abdsp51]

That's what he said last year while I was at NCOA, in fact he said they were in the process of improving the ABU.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

AFJROTC has fewer layers of "decision makers" to go through. And they talk directly to the Holm Center-AU-AETC-HAF.
We have to decide to make the request in the first place, then route it up through CAP-USAF and then to Holm Center, etc...
Our biggest stumbling block is getting the request out of the CAP Corperation.

We didn't seem to have these problems before we "seperated" from the Air Force and became much more "Corperate".
Of course that was when National was staffed with AD Air Force personnel and DAF civilian employees too.
There weren't any CAP Corperate employees back then.

The "corporatist" mindset is one thing that has made CAP so schizoid identity-wise...and has been detrimental to this organisation no end.

I'm wondering if the "corporatists" at the top haven't made the ABU request because ABU's don't come in grey.

[PHall]

AFJROTC has fewer layers of "decision makers" to go through. And they talk directly to the Holm Center-AU-AETC-HAF.
We have to decide to make the request in the first place, then route it up through CAP-USAF and then to Holm Center, etc...
Our biggest stumbling block is getting the request out of the CAP Corperation.

We didn't seem to have these problems before we "seperated" from the Air Force and became much more "Corperate".
Of course that was when National was staffed with AD Air Force personnel and DAF civilian employees too.
There weren't any CAP Corperate employees back then.

The "corporatist" mindset is one thing that has made CAP so schizoid identity-wise...and has been detrimental to this organisation no end.

I'm wondering if the "corporatists" at the top haven't made the ABU request because ABU's don't come in grey.

I honestly think it's because the lines of communication that used to be there are long gone.

We're not part of the family anymore, we're "outsiders".

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I honestly think it's because the lines of communication that used to be there are long gone.

We're not part of the family anymore, we're "outsiders".

Too sadly true.

[abdsp51]

There is some grey in ABUs lol.

[Extremepredjudice]

You guys are overlooking the obvious! Dye them grey.

[abdsp51]

or just find something that suits and is ideal.

[a2capt]

It seems like this past often mentioned "two year moratorium" was ... 4 years ago.

Now it's at least a couple more years from now, the way Ned comes off. With the frequency of meetings, most things take at least a couple sessions to hash out. At once a year, or so..  with the next one i August?

[Ned]

It seems like this past often mentioned "two year moratorium" was ... 4 years ago.

Now it's at least a couple more years from now, the way Ned comes off.

The "2 year moratorium" was imposed by the NB.  They can make changes that do not require AF approval at any time, but they have decided not to make any changes until they have received and considered the report of the NUC during the Baltimore NB meeting.

The point concering ABUs that I have been trying to make is that - should the NB decide to request ABUs - that they will start the process at the NB meeting in August.  We will then need several weeks or months for the staff to put the package together and submit it through CAP-USAF.  And given the multiple levels of analysis and approvals within the USAF, it is almost certain that their portion will take many months.  So my personal guess is that we will not see ABUs until mid to late 2013 at the earliest.

But the NB could (and probably will) make changes to our uniforms that do not require AF approval.  Such changes could in theory become effective as soon as staff can publish an ICL.

Or a revised 39-1.   

[MSG Mac]

It seems like this past often mentioned "two year moratorium" was ... 4 years ago.

Now it's at least a couple more years from now, the way Ned comes off. With the frequency of meetings, most things take at least a couple sessions to hash out. At once a year, or so..  with the next one i August?

Next National Board is the winter one which I believe is 1 March.

[shoresfinest]

it does seem that AFJROTC is the favored son, even thought they're only mission is cadet programs......which as we all know is lack-luster in comparison

[PHall]

It seems like this past often mentioned "two year moratorium" was ... 4 years ago.

Now it's at least a couple more years from now, the way Ned comes off. With the frequency of meetings, most things take at least a couple sessions to hash out. At once a year, or so..  with the next one i August?

Next National Board is the winter one which I believe is 1 March.

But the Uniform Committee is not scheduled to present their report until the August meeting.

[RogueLeader]

It seems like this past often mentioned "two year moratorium" was ... 4 years ago.

Now it's at least a couple more years from now, the way Ned comes off.

The "2 year moratorium" was imposed by the NB.  They can make changes that do not require AF approval at any time, but they have decided not to make any changes until they have received and considered the report of the NUC during the Baltimore NB meeting.

The point concering ABUs that I have been trying to make is that - should the NB decide to request ABUs - that they will start the process at the NB meeting in August.  We will then need several weeks or months for the staff to put the package together and submit it through CAP-USAF.  And given the multiple levels of analysis and approvals within the USAF, it is almost certain that their portion will take many months.  So my personal guess is that we will not see ABUs until mid to late 2013 at the earliest.

But the NB could (and probably will) make changes to our uniforms that do not require AF approval.  Such changes could in theory become effective as soon as staff can publish an ICL.

Or a revised 39-1.   

I thought that the AF had to approve ALL uniform changes.