Medals to be worn on the dress blue uniform

[JArvey]

The link at the bottom of the page shows the link to the medals im talking about, ive seen cadets with these on their uniforms, I just have never heard anyone say how to obtain these. Could someone please tell me how to get the
medals from admin officer down on the link below? thanks, and also is their a regulation for how to get all patches that go on the left pocket on the BDUs?

http://www.vanguardmil.com/?main_page=page&id=29

[DakRadz]

First off:
Welcome to CAP, cadet!

These are not medals- they are insignia, badges, or even bling, but never medals.

These are medals: http://www.vanguardmil.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6_378_382
P.S. Cadets do not wear medals.

[ColonelJack]

And to be 100% on the up-and-up, seniors don't wear medals on the dress blue uniform either.  We do on the mess dress, however.

Jack

[JArvey]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

[MSgt Van]

Maybe solo wings, basic emergency services badge, ground team badge? No, I didn't check the manual and reg first, but I'm sure the answer is in there.

[Eclipse]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

He is wearing solo wings, a ground team badge, and the standard huge ribbon rack of an active cadet C/Col.

[spaatzmom]

Unless the Spaatz was recently obtained, cadet King was still a C/Lt Col until Oct 2010 when he aged out.

[Major Lord]

Perhaps a Cadet was wearing a medal on a distinctive uniform blazer?

Major Lord

[PA Guy]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

Why don't you post a photo or link to the picture in question so we can all look at the same thing.

[JayT]

May also be of an AFJROTC cadet, whom sometimes where full size medals.

[jimmydeanno]

He might be talking about the specialty track badges that cadets can earn.  There are a bunch of cadets who have the Comm and ES ones...

[abdsp51]

Unless it has changed I know AFJROTC Cadets wore full medals in conjuction with their ribbons for special occasions such as the ball, pass in review, and the awards ceremony.  Of course that was over 10 years ago.

[PHall]

NRA Markmanship "badge".

[Ozzy]

He might be confused with some of the awards like VFW Cadet of the year which comes with a ribbon and sometimes the matching medal.

WIWAC in AFJROTC, anyone who got a medal, wore it on their service coat... but I hear normally it isn't the standard in the AF

[Major Carrales]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

He is wearing solo wings, a ground team badge, and the standard huge ribbon rack of an active cadet C/Col.

Standard?  He has some CAP Decorations up there that are most definitely not "standard."  Curry, Arnold et al, those are STANDARD, Exceptional Service Award, Meritorious Service Award, Commander's Commendation not so much.

Also, Eclipse, that "cadets look too decorated" argument is tired and so 1999.  Talk to me when CAP cadets look like this...



No disrespect to the Cadet Colonel pictured, he has earned the honor of being so decorated, but our cadets don't even come close to that.  I think they are fine as they are, as is the cadets pictured above.

[Eclipse]

I didn't say "overly decorated", I said "huge", which it is.  Read what is written without filter.

[Major Carrales]

I didn't say "overly decorated", I said "huge", which it is.  Read what is written without filter.

Well then, stop being so argumentative with me so I can read you at face value instead of from an "angle."  Only PHall comments as argumentative as you and I have been lately. Your comment...

the standard huge ribbon rack

Reads as derogatory and could be construed as furthering the "South American dictator" comment that was likely two potential posts away.   Preemptive strikes against such an argument are necessary on CAPTALK.  I don't need to remind you of that.

[Eclipse]

the standard huge ribbon rack

Reads as derogatory and could be construed as furthering the "South American dictator" comment that was likely two potential posts away.   Preemptive strikes against such an argument are necessary on CAPTALK.  I don't need to remind you of that.

OK, seriously?

This is a discussion with someone who clearly is brand new to CAP and is impressed / confused by some photo or another he saw.  Every cadet ribbon rack is huge by design as they are required to where all or none.

I made made the comment because to an outsider it may look impressive, but 90% of what is in that pic is standard for any cadet who attains phase IV grade.  I literally meant "standard" as in they are all that big.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

No one is saying that there is something wrong with a cadet wearing a rack that big, it is required that cadets wear ALL of their awards. Having a massive rack is just part of being a cadet that you can't avoid when you have any award over the Mitchell. There was no comment about a South American dictator, I would probably make that statement, but then again I was a cadet with a massive rack. If you want to make your way through as much of the CP as you possibly can, you will have a massive rack, there is just no getting around it.

[Major Carrales]

the standard huge ribbon rack

Reads as derogatory and could be construed as furthering the "South American dictator" comment that was likely two potential posts away.   Preemptive strikes against such an argument are necessary on CAPTALK.  I don't need to remind you of that.

OK, seriously?

This is a discussion with someone who clearly is brand new to CAP and is impressed / confused by some photo or another he saw.  Every cadet ribbon rack is huge by design as they are required to where all or none.

I made made the comment because to an outsider it may look impressive, but 90% of what is in that pic is standard for any cadet who attains phase IV grade.  I literally meant "standard" as in they are all that big.

Respectable...

Too many people, even here, start that "self-loathing/our stuff is unimportant " talk and, as it implies in the CADET materials and in ACSC, bad attitude is contagious.  I tend to take these positions because I greatly value CAP as a part of my life and sometime some people see it as somehow and inferior thing that is worthy only of ridicule.

Every CAP decoration, ribbon, award and, above all, service is important.  I get a but defensive when I feel people are gonna go down that route.  I apologize is I was offensive.

[Major Carrales]

No one is saying that there is something wrong with a cadet wearing a rack that big, it is required that cadets wear ALL of their awards. Having a massive rack is just part of being a cadet that you can't avoid when you have any award over the Mitchell. There was no comment about a South American dictator, I would probably make that statement, but then again I was a cadet with a massive rack. If you want to make your way through as much of the CP as you possibly can, you will have a massive rack, there is just no getting around it.

We have been down the road I speak of many, many times...it comes in cycles.  Some posts and threads repeat so often one might yell "CONSPIRACY."

I could list some...
AMERICAN FLAG PATCH
SOME NEW UNIFORM CHANGE
WE SHOULDN'T BE IN UNIFORMS AT ALL
WE NEED TO HAVE MORE UNIFORMS
WE NEED TO HAVE LESS UNIFORMS

WE HAVE TOO MANY RIBBONS
LETS REDESIGN THE RIBBONS
WE HAVE TOO MANY BADGES

UNIFORM ACTON "X" MEANS THE USAF HATES US
UNIFORM ACTION "Y" MEANS THEY LOVE US AGAIN
UNIFORM ACTON "Z" MESSES WITH MY HEAD

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TRAINING
WE HAVE TOO MUCH and NOT ENOUGH RIGOR

THE USAF SHOULD TAKE US OVER
WE USAF SHOULD STAY OUT OF OUR BUSINESS
GOLF SHIRTS vs FLIGHT SUITS

And the list could go on ad infinitum.

[Eclipse]

I apologize is I was offensive.

You isn't...

[Major Carrales]

I apologize is I was offensive.

You isn't...

Sorry, I occasionally type an "s" for an "f," don't know why but that is a common typo of mine that I can't seem to catch in handwritten works or proof reading.  A disorder, perhaps?

[DBlair]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

He is wearing solo wings, a ground team badge, and the standard huge ribbon rack of an active cadet C/Col.

Standard?  He has some CAP Decorations up there that are most definitely not "standard."  Curry, Arnold et al, those are STANDARD, Exceptional Service Award, Meritorious Service Award, Commander's Commendation not so much.

Well, those decorations are essentially (unfortunately) standard for any Cadet who participates on Region or National CAC. Likewise, many Cadets are (unfortunately) awarded such decorations for participating on NCC teams, etc. Personally, I don't think either situation warrants an ESA or MSA, but it is what it is.


As for the 'medal' the Cadet originally mentioned, I have a feeling he is referring to the NRA medal as that is the only thing a Cadet can wear that actually looks like a medal.

[Eclipse]

I constantly drop the "u" in "you", something about the angle I hit the key, doesn't matter the machine.

[Fubar]

I constantly drop the "u" in "you", something about the angle I hit the key, doesn't matter the machine.

But on the up side, it makes you sound hip.

[Hawk200]

We have been down the road I speak of many, many times...it comes in cycles.  Some posts and threads repeat so often one might yell "CONSPIRACY."

I could list some...
AMERICAN FLAG PATCH
SOME NEW UNIFORM CHANGE
WE SHOULDN'T BE IN UNIFORMS AT ALL
WE NEED TO HAVE MORE UNIFORMS
WE NEED TO HAVE LESS UNIFORMS

WE HAVE TOO MANY RIBBONS
LETS REDESIGN THE RIBBONS
WE HAVE TOO MANY BADGES

UNIFORM ACTON "X" MEANS THE USAF HATES US
UNIFORM ACTION "Y" MEANS THEY LOVE US AGAIN
UNIFORM ACTON "Z" MESSES WITH MY HEAD

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TRAINING
WE HAVE TOO MUCH and NOT ENOUGH RIGOR

THE USAF SHOULD TAKE US OVER
WE USAF SHOULD STAY OUT OF OUR BUSINESS
GOLF SHIRTS vs FLIGHT SUITS

And the list could go on ad infinitum.

I think we all have a knee jerk when we perceive something to be one of the above. To be fair, some comments approach one of the above, but don't actually fully embody one of the subjects. I think we all need to take the time to re-read something that looks like it, just to make certain it is or isn't what we might think. I know I'm guilty of it.

Sorry, I occasionally type an "s" for an "f," don't know why but that is a common typo of mine that I can't seem to catch in handwritten works or proof reading.  A disorder, perhaps?

Just finished a Psych class, I can assure you that it isn't. The index finger is stronger that the ring finger (which should be the fingers you're using to type those characters, so it often tends to be the one that over rides the others. It's mechanics, not psychology. You do it enough that it seems right, so you don't catch it when it's incorrect. I wouldn't worry about it, worrying about it could turn it into a disorder.

Anyway, personally I don't think that what we have is meaningless, but I think that the "meaningfulness" of many awards could be increased but eliminating a few (or more). As seniors, we have the option of shortening our ribbon racks, so there are a few decorations that I tend to leave off regularly. Of course, there are some odd things as to what I wear. There is one military award that could be considered "complementary" of another in what they tell of me, so I tend to wear them both, even though I value one more than the other.

[Cool Mace]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

He is wearing solo wings, a ground team badge, and the standard huge ribbon rack of an active cadet C/Col.

Standard?  He has some CAP Decorations up there that are most definitely not "standard."  Curry, Arnold et al, those are STANDARD, Exceptional Service Award, Meritorious Service Award, Commander's Commendation not so much.

Well, those decorations are essentially (unfortunately) standard for any Cadet who participates on Region or National CAC. Likewise, many Cadets are (unfortunately) awarded such decorations for participating on NCC teams, etc. Personally, I don't think either situation warrants an ESA or MSA, but it is what it is.

Agreed. I was on NCC DT and NCAC, but never got anything for them. I don't see why anyone should. You already get a clasp for your ribbon for doing both those things. Why do they need more stuff for nothing?

[DakRadz]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

That cadet was wearing a badge or insignia, not a medal.

Medals are the round metal things that hang from a piece of cloth.

You are using the wrong terminology, which is understandable for a new cadet- but that terminology is causing confusion, as you see here 

[DC]

To answer the other part of the OP's question: On BDUs you are required to wear a reversed American flag patch on the right shoulder and name and CAP tapes over the breast pockets. Additionally you may opt to wear a wing patch on the left shoulder, a squadron patch (Model Rocketry and a handful of others also may go here) on the left breast pocket, and a specialty patch on the left breast, typically on cadets this is from a National Cadet Special Activity they have attended.

I know that's a little confusing. I'm guessing you are new to CAP, in which case you just need to know that the flag goes on the right shoulder, your name goes over the left breast pocket, and the CIVIL AIR PATROL tape goes over your right breast pocket. Those are the only required patches for BDUs. The rest will come later as you attend activities and do stuff as a cadet.

The items you linked to are called badges or insignia, not medals. Cadets can earn some of them, the most common ones being Solo Pilot wings and the Ground Team Member badges. Of the specialty track badges, which are the colored, shield-shaped ones, cadets are only allowed to earn the Emergency Services, Communications, and Information Technology badges, the rest are reserved for Senior Members only.

[Hawk200]

your name goes over the left breast pocket, and the CIVIL AIR PATROL tape goes over your right breast pocket.

Backwards there. Nametag over right, CAP tape over left.

[DC]

your name goes over the left breast pocket, and the CIVIL AIR PATROL tape goes over your right breast pocket.

Backwards there. Nametag over right, CAP tape over left.

My bad, you're right.

[arajca]

a squadron patch (Model Rocketry and a handful of others also may go here) on the left breast pocket, and a specialty patch on the left breast, typically on cadets this is from a National Cadet Special Activity they have attended.

The squadron patch or Model Rocketry patch are worn on the RIGHT breast pocket, not left. Specialty patches (Comm, Safety, etc) or NCSA patches are worn on the LEFT breast pocket. Specialty insignia (wings, GT badges, EMT badges) are worn over the Civil Air Patrol tape on the left breast. 

[SarDragon]

Just as a reminder, all handedness refers to the wearer's left or right.

[JArvey]

Im not going to post a picture of the person but hes wearing the comm and the emergency services on his blues uniform along with the ton of ribbons the GTM and solo wings. and of course the NRA

[JArvey]

To answer the other part of the OP's question: On BDUs you are required to wear a reversed American flag patch on the right shoulder and name and CAP tapes over the breast pockets. Additionally you may opt to wear a wing patch on the left shoulder, a squadron patch (Model Rocketry and a handful of others also may go here) on the left breast pocket, and a specialty patch on the left breast, typically on cadets this is from a National Cadet Special Activity they have attended.

I know that's a little confusing. I'm guessing you are new to CAP, in which case you just need to know that the flag goes on the right shoulder, your name goes over the left breast pocket, and the CIVIL AIR PATROL tape goes over your right breast pocket. Those are the only required patches for BDUs. The rest will come later as you attend activities and do stuff as a cadet.

The items you linked to are called badges or insignia, not medals. Cadets can earn some of them, the most common ones being Solo Pilot wings and the Ground Team Member badges. Of the specialty track badges, which are the colored, shield-shaped ones, cadets are only allowed to earn the Emergency Services, Communications, and Information Technology badges, the rest are reserved for Senior Members only.

thanks you answered my question. I was looking for the badges and BTW the model rocketry goes on the right breast pocket.

[JArvey]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

That cadet was wearing a badge or insignia, not a medal.

Medals are the round metal things that hang from a piece of cloth.

You are using the wrong terminology, which is understandable for a new cadet- but that terminology is causing confusion, as you see here 

Ok... I said medals because I did not know what they were, but just because I said that does not mean that I'm a new cadet, in fact im a officer.

[DakRadz]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

That cadet was wearing a badge or insignia, not a medal.

Medals are the round metal things that hang from a piece of cloth.

You are using the wrong terminology, which is understandable for a new cadet- but that terminology is causing confusion, as you see here 

Ok... I said medals because I did not know what they were, but just because I said that does not mean that I'm a new cadet, in fact im a officer.

You put 14 for your age on your CAPTalk profile.



If you mean you are a cadet officer, I'm slightly surprised you didn't know the difference between badges and medals, but it's not really a big part of cadetting, so whatever.

If you are a SM officer, your profile mislead me.

Either way, the terminology was still confusing..

[JArvey]

If cadets dont wear them why did I see a Cadet Colonel on national CAC wearing them?

That cadet was wearing a badge or insignia, not a medal.

Medals are the round metal things that hang from a piece of cloth.

You are using the wrong terminology, which is understandable for a new cadet- but that terminology is causing confusion, as you see here 

Ok... I said medals because I did not know what they were, but just because I said that does not mean that I'm a new cadet, in fact im a officer.

You put 14 for your age on your CAPTalk profile.



If you mean you are a cadet officer, I'm slightly surprised you didn't know the difference between badges and medals, but it's not really a big part of cadetting, so whatever.

If you are a SM officer, your profile mislead me.

Either way, the terminology was still confusing..

Ya im a Cadet Officer, and I just get confused with all the terminology. I dint start using vanguard until my squadron starting running out of everything.

[DakRadz]

It's not Vanguard that determines what we call things.

They are called the same thing all throughout CAP, with perhaps a few nicknames like chest candy. But they are insignia and badges- that's in some of our manuals and regulations.

[JArvey]

It's not Vanguard that determines what we call things.

They are called the same thing all throughout CAP, with perhaps a few nicknames like chest candy. But they are insignia and badges- that's in some of our manuals and regulations.

I know, but I had not even heard of the names until I started going on Vanguard.

[Eclipse]

...perhaps a few nicknames like chest candy.

Ribbons = jelly beans!

Badges = coins!

(Put the coins in and out come the jelly beans!)

[jeders]

The link at the bottom of the page shows the link to the medals im talking about, ive seen cadets with these on their uniforms, I just have never heard anyone say how to obtain these. Could someone please tell me how to get the
medals from admin officer down on the link below? thanks, and also is their a regulation for how to get all patches that go on the left pocket on the BDUs?

http://www.vanguardmil.com/?main_page=page&id=29

Ok... I said medals because I did not know what they were, but just because I said that does not mean that I'm a new cadet, in fact im a officer.

This truly scares me.

Anyone who doesn't at least know that these are specialty badges and insignia by the time they're a C/NCO, let alone Cadet Officer, has not learned enough of the basics. As far as not knowing how the badges are earned, not your fault, that requires reading several regs that you may not be familiar with. But you're an officer now, it is your responsibility to read the regs, know the regs, and teach them to those below you.

[Major Carrales]

My fellow CAPTALKERs, never fall into the trap of thinking that CAP is somehow "homogeneous" and that, despite what we know to be true, there is not regional terminology or other slang going around.  Also, that everyone is doing what they are supposed to.

Here is that I mean, let's say a person or group of people want to start a unit in a new area that is over an hour from then nearest unit and over two hours from Group HQ and over five hours from WING (don't say it can't happen..that was the situation in Corpus Christi circa 2005).  Thus, they get visited only "every so often" even by friendly unofficial visitors and rarely from anyone from command or HQ.

They follow the regulations in isolation, develop local nuances that end up being traditions.  In time they group to the point where they are active in Group and Wing activities (Corpus Christi circa 2007).  Mistakes are made in the isolation, traditions spring up and solidify in isolation.  With no one to instill "CAP Culture" nothing is known of it.

In time, due to exposure to the GREATER CAP, like THROUGH CIVIL AIR PORTAL and CAPTALK, things are corrected and there is a base line to operate out and said officers gain some wisdom from having built a unit up and then charter satellite unites (CORPUS CHRISTI and KINGSVILLE circa yesterday)

Now...why type all that to address the above points.  Because WE CANNOT BE EATING OUR YOUNG here.  Especially when it is a given that situations like the above exist and CAP units grow in "window boxes" all over the nation.

Now, when some Cadet or CAP Officer comes here and makes a remark that smacks or ignorance...how about a helping hand of correction instead of a bunch of arrogant comments and sarcasm that amount to a slap in the face?

I got a mouthful of that here over the years and it is a bitter taste.  Maybe so bitter that it might drive some away...member retention issues and all.  I've had it out over and over with some of you.  But I needed the help and guidance.  Thank God for those that took me under their WING and shared wisdom.  Others, who's remarks were more hurtful than helpful in those days are disconnected.  You may live in CAP PARADISE, some of us are very much on a frontier.

Just think about it before posting in reply to comments such as the use of the term "medals" in this thread.

[DBlair]

a squadron patch (Model Rocketry and a handful of others also may go here) on the left breast pocket, and a specialty patch on the left breast, typically on cadets this is from a National Cadet Special Activity they have attended.

The squadron patch or Model Rocketry patch are worn on the RIGHT breast pocket, not left. Specialty patches (Comm, Safety, etc) or NCSA patches are worn on the LEFT breast pocket. Specialty insignia (wings, GT badges, EMT badges) are worn over the Civil Air Patrol tape on the left breast.

Model Rocketry is actually worn in the same place as specialty or NCSA patches, i.e. on the left pocket. A way to remember this is that the left pocket is for something you earn. Right pocket is always for the unit patch.

[arajca]

a squadron patch (Model Rocketry and a handful of others also may go here) on the left breast pocket, and a specialty patch on the left breast, typically on cadets this is from a National Cadet Special Activity they have attended.

The squadron patch or Model Rocketry patch are worn on the RIGHT breast pocket, not left. Specialty patches (Comm, Safety, etc) or NCSA patches are worn on the LEFT breast pocket. Specialty insignia (wings, GT badges, EMT badges) are worn over the Civil Air Patrol tape on the left breast.

Model Rocketry is actually worn in the same place as specialty or NCSA patches, i.e. on the left pocket. A way to remember this is that the left pocket is for something you earn. Right pocket is always for the unit patch.

Bzzt! Wrong Answer. Ref CAPM 39-1, table 6-2, line 12

12 | Model Rocketry Patch | embroidered centered below the pocket flap on the right breast pocket of the BDU or field uniform shirt or BDU or dark blue field jacket.

The badge is worn on the left pocket of the blues. The patch is worn on the RIGHT pocket of the bdu.

[DBlair]

While I'm usually pretty sharp with the 39-1, I respectfully submit that you are correct.

[Hawk200]

The badge is worn on the left pocket of the blues. The patch is worn on the RIGHT pocket of the bdu.

I agree that's what the reg says. My own opinion is that it's stupid. Why should it be worn on a different side on one uniform than another?

Haven't thought about it lately, but I think I'm gonna send this one up the chain for change in the manual.

[SarDragon]

The badge is worn on the left pocket of the blues. The patch is worn on the RIGHT pocket of the bdu.

I agree that's what the reg says. My own opinion is that it's stupid. Why should it be worn on a different side on one uniform than another?

Haven't thought about it lately, but I think I'm gonna send this one up the chain for change in the manual.

Oh no!

Then it will take 20 years for everyone to get it right. 

[Hawk200]

The badge is worn on the left pocket of the blues. The patch is worn on the RIGHT pocket of the bdu.

I agree that's what the reg says. My own opinion is that it's stupid. Why should it be worn on a different side on one uniform than another?

Haven't thought about it lately, but I think I'm gonna send this one up the chain for change in the manual.

Oh no!

Then it will take 20 years for everyone to get it right. 

Nah. There are some people already putting it on the left pocket of BDUs. They aren't correct now, but they will be as soon as someone approves the change.

[DBlair]

The badge is worn on the left pocket of the blues. The patch is worn on the RIGHT pocket of the bdu.

I agree that's what the reg says. My own opinion is that it's stupid. Why should it be worn on a different side on one uniform than another?

Haven't thought about it lately, but I think I'm gonna send this one up the chain for change in the manual.

Oh no!

Then it will take 20 years for everyone to get it right. 

Nah. There are some people already putting it on the left pocket of BDUs. They aren't correct now, but they will be as soon as someone approves the change.

To be honest, out of the many many many Cadets I've seen wearing the rocketry patch, I think I've only ever seen about 2 Cadets wearing the Rocketry patch on the right pocket.

I need to see if I can find some of my old Cadet greens and BDUs to see how I used to wear it.

[JArvey]

While I'm usually pretty sharp with the 39-1, I respectfully submit that you are correct.

You dont see too many people post something like this on CT to much, and the rocketry patch on the right breast really makes no sense, I got chewed out because I had it on my left pocket.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Hey, some of these guys are massive 39-1 Gurus. From what I could understand it said that you could wear four badges ie CIB, AASLT, GT, and EMT. But they let me know how it should be worded in the manual and I realized I needed to fix my jacked up self. These guys are on the money!

[Hawk200]

Hey, some of these guys are massive 39-1 Gurus. From what I could understand it said that you could wear four badges ie CIB, AASLT, GT, and EMT. But they let me know how it should be worded in the manual and I realized I needed to fix my jacked up self. These guys are on the money!

And you shouldn't have needed to come here for the help. The manual needs to be clearer, and incorporate all those various ICLs into one pub. We shouldn't have to put together a uniform by "Oh, I've got this pub; that letter; and that letter, oh wait, there's another letter. Wait, or there any more letters?" That's jacked.

I think one thing that would help is to have the same rules for both corporate and blues, with the only stipulation being the "no military badges/decs/awards/etc. on corporates" (military things are probably not going to ever be permitted on corporates, so let's not argue over it). The same number of badges on corporates, the same general rules. Clarify things, mirror the Air Force on things like placement on both, and be done with it.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Hey, some of these guys are massive 39-1 Gurus. From what I could understand it said that you could wear four badges ie CIB, AASLT, GT, and EMT. But they let me know how it should be worded in the manual and I realized I needed to fix my jacked up self. These guys are on the money!

And you shouldn't have needed to come here for the help. The manual needs to be clearer, and incorporate all those various ICLs into one pub. We shouldn't have to put together a uniform by "Oh, I've got this pub; that letter; and that letter, oh wait, there's another letter. Wait, or there any more letters?" That's jacked.

I think one thing that would help is to have the same rules for both corporate and blues, with the only stipulation being the "no military badges/decs/awards/etc. on corporates" (military things are probably not going to ever be permitted on corporates, so let's not argue over it). The same number of badges on corporates, the same general rules. Clarify things, mirror the Air Force on things like placement on both, and be done with it.

Couldn't agree more. One manual, up to date, and with descriptive wording. You shouldn't have to peruse the entire manual in order  to be able to figure out what exactly the regulation is on placement. There should also be better figures on the uniform. Probably the use of a mannequin would be better than actual personnel. The use of uniforms that also have the maximum allowed application of badges and ribbons would be a positive change from the pictures of someone in BDUs with only the bare minimum doesn't help explain much of anything at all. The only thing that a human in uniform would be good for is a full body picture of the uniform and how it is supposed to hang on the person, the blouse of the boots, the roll of the sleeves, and the break in the bottom of the blues trousers and anything else that needs illustration on wear that does require a person.

[Hawk200]

Couldn't agree more. One manual, up to date, and with descriptive wording. You shouldn't have to peruse the entire manual in order  to be able to figure out what exactly the regulation is on placement. There should also be better figures on the uniform. Probably the use of a mannequin would be better than actual personnel. The use of uniforms that also have the maximum allowed application of badges and ribbons would be a positive change from the pictures of someone in BDUs with only the bare minimum doesn't help explain much of anything at all.

Agreed. Find someone with maximum everything to model it. Or one of a low quantity, and one with with high. Starting to wonder if it might not be a bad idea to go back to drawings for most of the pub.

The only thing that a human in uniform would be good for is a full body picture of the uniform and how it is supposed to hang on the person, the blouse of the boots, the roll of the sleeves, and the break in the bottom of the blues trousers and anything else that needs illustration on wear that does require a person.

You could still do that with a mannequin, it would just require a little more attention to the details. Like the way you think though.

So, what are we going to do about it?

Edit: Just perused AFI 36-2903, Aug 2006, with Change 1. Thinking that's a good base to start with. It includes badges and shows rank insignia as well. One stop shoppng when it comes to setting up.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

So, what are we going to do about it?

Most likely nothing. Partialy because there are a lot of other things that need taken care of also.

[Hawk200]

So, what are we going to do about it?

Most likely nothing. Partialy because there are a lot of other things that need taken care of also.

I see your point, but I'm starting to think that "fake it til you make it" could start with everyone being on the same page on how to dress. Once a major thing that affects everyone is cleaned up (hopefully enough that there's really nothing to argue about, then again who am I kidding), people might start focusing on other stuff.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

That would be nice to stop having to show everyone how to wear the uniform over and over. One major help with that would be a nice manual that says it all. Maybe even on DVD if that would help. Then we could get more time on operational aspects and more AE and Leadership.

[Major Carrales]

That would be nice to stop having to show everyone how to wear the uniform over and over. One major help with that would be a nice manual that says it all. Maybe even on DVD if that would help. Then we could get more time on operational aspects and more AE and Leadership.

There have been several discussions, committees and other machinations about preparing a solid CAP uniform manual instead of the hodge-podge of letters (which, as I understand it, are supposed to be codified in the Regs after a given time or phase out) but it never seems to happen.

[flyboy53]

OK, can we stop the war. Trying to follow this post is like watching volleys of artillery being lobbed back and forth.

Many of you seem to confuse badges and decorations with traditional cadet achievement awards. I would only hope that all cadets reflect the activeness of the cadet pictured. Please remember this, our current cadet achievement and actually the senior member PD process have ribbons built into them to reflect little (some would also say big) steps to steer a cadet or senior member through a process leading to a specific level of achievement. This cadet is clearly the exception.

I'm not going to quote statistics here. If one of you want to, fine, but its my experience that senior member progression usually stops at the Loeing Award, and I don't know how many cadets I've known who achieve their Mitchells and then everything seems to stop.

Go ahead, commiserate about changing it and I'll bet you that cadet achievements and senior member professional development will go out the window. So, in other words, all the different ribbons have a required function. It's your choice whether you want to wear them or not.

My only observation here, though, is that nothing above the lapel notch should probably be scrapped....especially when it seems so obviously counter productive ,,,, and more like an old Air Force rule where you couldn't wear more ribbons than your commander. I can see it now, the squadron commander begins dictating how many ribbons can be worn. That will go over like a lead brick!

I defer to Sparky. Lets move on and join the new century.

[HGjunkie]

Lets move on and join the new century.

I thought it was the new millenia... 

[Eclipse]

I can see it now, the squadron commander begins dictating how many ribbons can be worn. That will go over like a lead brick!

Yes, horrors!  Squadron commanders setting standard.  That is the last thing we want.

[Hawk200]

There have been several discussions, committees and other machinations about preparing a solid CAP uniform manual instead of the hodge-podge of letters (which, as I understand it, are supposed to be codified in the Regs after a given time or phase out) but it never seems to happen.

Too true, Major. One thing that in a way is a bit negative, but also shows they accept from the field is the section in 39-1 that describes the cadet Honor Guard uniform. It sems like this was simply cut and pasted into the new pub, and then puked out as the official manual. Maybe they would be willing to accept a well written manual, and simply put it out. As long as there is a succinct summary of logical changes, it might fly.

I could easily slam together a 36-2903 style manual with proper spelling, clear descriptive directions, and useful pictures in a week's time. Could probably use a few pics from the current 39-1 to do so. The pub just needs someone that's paying attention.