New Uniform update from NHQ 11/13/06

[Pylon]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

And how crappy and poorly placed it looks is irrelevent if it's the "correct" spot.   

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'm glad about the change authorizing rank on the hat.  This has been in the works for at least two years.

I'm still not changing my MAJCOM patch until the last possibile minute.

I'm a rebel and I'll never ever be any good.

[A.Member]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

Define correct?  Not resting on the visor!  No one does that because it looks stupid.  But you're correct, there is no requirement stating that the board's decisions must be guided by logic and, ultimately, what I or anyone else thinks is probably irrelevant.  That doesn't mean we don't get an opinion.

"Correct" would be something like this (I'll let you determine where these models for "correctness" were obtained):
Source 1
"Officers wear the regular size cloth or subdued metal grade insignia on the BDU cap. Grade insignia will be centered vertically and horizontally. Colonel grade insignia is worn with the eagle's beak pointed towards the wearer's right shoulder (indicates the eagle is facing forward)."

Source 2
(2) Grade insignia (branch insignia for chaplains) is centered on the front of the headgear left to right, and top to bottom; no other insignia is worn on the headgear listed above (see fig 28–19).

(Note:  strikethrough in Source 1 was my edit)

[arajca]

From CAP/CC New uniform changes just approved by the Air Force 13 Nov 2006

The Air Force has approved the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. The parka is authorized with the BDU uniform and worn with a blue embroidered device on the front tab (see attached photo). The device will be available from Vanguard shortly. The Air Force also authorized the wear of the blue embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap for CAP senior members (photo attached). The National Board approved both of these changes in March 2006.

The Gore-Tex parka may be worn with the CAP utility and field uniforms and with the CAP blue flight suit; however, the blue flight jacket is the suggested outergarment for wear with the blue CAP flight suit.

emphasis mine

I wonder if this part was approved by the AF.

[SarDragon]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

Define correct?  Not resting on the visor!  No one does that because it looks stupid.  But you're correct, there is no requirement stating that the board's decisions must be guided by logic and, ultimately, what I or anyone else thinks is probably irrelevant.  That doesn't mean we don't get an opinion.

"Correct" would be something like this (I'll let you determine where these models for "correctness" were obtained):
Source 1
"Officers wear the regular size cloth or subdued metal grade insignia on the BDU cap. Grade insignia will be centered vertically and horizontally. Colonel grade insignia is worn with the eagle's beak pointed towards the wearer's right shoulder (indicates the eagle is facing forward)."

Source 2
(2) Grade insignia (branch insignia for chaplains) is centered on the front of the headgear left to right, and top to bottom; no other insignia is worn on the headgear listed above (see fig 28–19).

Well, it DIDN'T come from CAPM 39-1, so any other source is irrelevant. Nor did it come from AFI36-2903, so it is even less relevant.

So, what's your point? The existing guidance from CAPM 39-1 has been provided. It has been acknowledged as inadequate. Now we wait and see how TPTB fix it.

[A.Member]

Nor did it come from AFI36-2903, so it is even less relevant.

Perhaps you'll want to check again. 

[lordmonar]

From CAP/CC New uniform changes just approved by the Air Force 13 Nov 2006

The Air Force has approved the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. The parka is authorized with the BDU uniform and worn with a blue embroidered device on the front tab (see attached photo). The device will be available from Vanguard shortly. The Air Force also authorized the wear of the blue embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap for CAP senior members (photo attached). The National Board approved both of these changes in March 2006.

The Gore-Tex parka may be worn with the CAP utility and field uniforms and with the CAP blue flight suit; however, the blue flight jacket is the suggested outergarment for wear with the blue CAP flight suit.

emphasis mine

I wonder if this part was approved by the AF.

All of it?  I don't see why the AF would not...once it authorised the Gortex for wear, they could very well not authorise for the BBDUs....BTW...IIRC any "civilian" jacket was authorised for the BBDU anyway....the only difference now is that you can wear a rank tab on it.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

And how crappy and poorly placed it looks is irrelevent if it's the "correct" spot.   

I'm not sure, Pylon.  I looked at my bdu cap, and putting the bottom edge of the rank insignia 1/2 inch up from the visor seems to make it higher than illustrated.  Unless the regulation, when we get it, specifies "Center of mass" at 1/2 inch.  One never knows, I guess.

[Pylon]

Define "correct spot". If NHQ sets the location as centered, 1/2" above the bill, guess what - that's the correct spot. Whether or not you agree with it is irrelevent. How anyone else does it is also irrelevent.

And how crappy and poorly placed it looks is irrelevent if it's the "correct" spot.   

I'm not sure, Pylon.  I looked at my bdu cap, and putting the bottom edge of the rank insignia 1/2 inch up from the visor seems to make it higher than illustrated.  Unless the regulation, when we get it, specifies "Center of mass" at 1/2 inch.  One never knows, I guess.

You're right... who knows until we get the actual wording of the policy, and try it out.  The photoshopped version just looks like crap.      The insignia is clearly a bit too small, and if that's how it looks when it is really placed, then I think it's poorly planned.

I just can't imagine why somebody couldn't pin an embroidered insignia on a CAP quickly to take a photo before this went out across the wire.  Randomly.   

[LtCol White]

I think its just a poor quality rush job in photoshop. I'm sure it will be placed in accordance with USAF regs which was the same when it was previously authorized in the old days

[Psicorp]

Does it strike anyone else as a little "odd" that the newly approved changes/additions are listed as answers in the "Knowledgebase", but that there isn't a policy letter issued as of yet?   

The Knowledgebase says:

"BDU headgear Question
     Does the definition of BDU cover include the Navy style covers, or is it limited to the Air Force/Army style covers only?
     Answer
     From CAP/CC New uniform changes just approved by the Air Force 13 Nov 2006
The Air Force has approved the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. The parka is authorized with the BDU uniform and worn with a blue embroidered device on the front tab (see attached photo). The device will be available from Vanguard shortly.
The Air Force also authorized the wear of the blue embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap for CAP senior members (photo attached). The National Board approved both of these changes in March 2006."

Knowledgebase Link

[Hawk200]

Does it strike anyone else as a little "odd" that the newly approved changes/additions are listed as answers in the "Knowledgebase", but that there isn't a policy letter issued as of yet?   

Not at all. Everyone knows that, occasionally, the cart is in front of the horse. 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Psicorp]

Does it strike anyone else as a little "odd" that the newly approved changes/additions are listed as answers in the "Knowledgebase", but that there isn't a policy letter issued as of yet?   

Not at all. Everyone knows that, occasionally, the cart is in front of the horse. 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Going uphill...both ways...


Thanks, Mike!  One day I'll actually figure out HTML, I promise.

[SarDragon]

Nor did it come from AFI36-2903, so it is even less relevant.

Perhaps you'll want to check again. 

As apparently quoted, the AFI was not the source. If you paraphrased it, you shouldn't make it appear as a direct quote. CAPM 39-1 is our governing regulation, and it currently does not provide complete guidance on the matter.

And I'm done with this, since you obviously have decided that you are right in spite of any evidence otherwise.

[RiverAux]

Folks, I wouldn't go spending a lot of money on Gortex jackets just yet.  Keep in mind that the AF will be going to a different uniform pattern very soon and I expect a glut of those jackets going to surplus.  So, we should probably be able to get some cheap or free, at least for a while.  Also, I wouldn't spend money on them anyway since it probably won't be but a few years before CAP changes uniform patterns to fall in line with the AF and the jacket will be totally obsolete.

[MIKE]

I have one already... The trousers too.  So, no biggie.  'cept it's Gen II and not Gen I as shown in the pic. 

I have also seen cheaper knockoffs that aren't Gore-Tex that were priced similar to M-65s.

[Psicorp]

Folks, I wouldn't go spending a lot of money on Gortex jackets just yet.  Keep in mind that the AF will be going to a different uniform pattern very soon and I expect a glut of those jackets going to surplus.  So, we should probably be able to get some cheap or free, at least for a while.  Also, I wouldn't spend money on them anyway since it probably won't be but a few years before CAP changes uniform patterns to fall in line with the AF and the jacket will be totally obsolete.

Spend a lot of money on uniforms?  Are you insane??  Ebay is my friend...I just picked up a Mess Dress tonight that needs a little alteration for $40.   If I had held off on every uniform change, I'd be attending meetings in civies.

[KyCAP]

Screening DRMO, looks like about 40 of these in surplus in Stockton, CA if any one in CA is interested.....

[A.Member]

As apparently quoted, the AFI was not the source. If you paraphrased it, you shouldn't make it appear as a direct quote...

...And I'm done with this, since you obviously have decided that you are right in spite of any evidence otherwise.

Actually, I decided that I'm right because, with the exception of my strikethrough (which is noted), it is a direct quote from AFI 36-2903, top of page 33.  And the second example is from AR 670-1.

[SarDragon]

OK, I cede the quote. I had the previous version of the AFI. However it still isn't CAPM 39-1, so it remains irrelevant.