Epauletes on white aviator shirt for SMWOG

[indygreg]

If wearing the white shirt/gray slacks combo, does a SMWOG wear the epauletes with CAP only, or do they wear them at all?

[lordmonar]

They would wear the gray epaulete sleve with just CAP on it as best as I can tell from 39-1.

Fig 4-2 Note 2 simply says Grade Insignia:  Gray CAP Epaulete sleeve displaying grade insignia.

[Eclipse]

The blank epaulet sleeves are not for SMWOG.

You wear nothing on your shoulders, just as with the blue shirt.

[ßτε]

Remember that senior members without grade have no grade insignia to wear.

[Pylon]

No.  SMWOG do not wear epaulets on any uniform.

[lordmonar]

The blank epaulet sleeves are not for SMWOG.

You wear nothing on your shoulders, just as with the blue shirt.

That's not what 39-1 says..... 

[Brad]

Well seeing as how you are considered "Senior Member Without Grade" by definition of the title, then how can you wear Grade Insignia that doesn't exist? A CAP cutout is NOT a grade insignia...it's just that, a CAP cutout. Even in 39-1 it's specifically differentiated from grade insignia.

[Rotorhead]

The blank epaulet sleeves are not for SMWOG.

You wear nothing on your shoulders, just as with the blue shirt.

That's not what 39-1 says..... 

I can't find where 39-1 says SMWOG wear those blank slides. Please elaborate.

[lordmonar]

Fig 4-2 Note 2
Grade Insignia:  Gray CAP Epaulete sleeve displaying grade insignia

Which Gray CAP Epaulete Sleeve displays the SMWOG insignia?  The one that is blank!

[ßτε]

Senior members without grade do not wear grade insignia. So this is not applicable to senior members without grade.

[Eclipse]

Fig 4-2 Note 2
Grade Insignia:  Gray CAP Epaulete sleeve displaying grade insignia

Which Gray CAP Epaulete Sleeve displays the SMWOG insignia?  The one that is blank!

Are you new here?

[lordmonar]

Guys.....you are barking up the wrong tree. 

The REGULATION sucks!  This is just one more instance of how poorly the reg is written.

If I wrote the regulation I would a) eliminate the SMWOG rank all together, b) If we kept SMWOG I would have a sentance like "SMWOG do not wear any CAP Gray Epaulete Sleeves and wear the CAP cut outs on their colars".

Clear simple and to the point.

The BOZOS who wrote 39-1 were so narrowly focused on their pet project we have the wonderfuly useless document we've got today.

[Hawk200]

The REGULATION sucks!  This is just one more instance of how poorly the reg is written.

So that justifies bad info? It's OK to lie to someone just so you can demonstrate "how poorly the reg is written"?

[lordmonar]

The REGULATION sucks!  This is just one more instance of how poorly the reg is written.

So that justifies bad info? It's OK to lie to someone just so you can demonstrate "how poorly the reg is written"?

I did not lie....the regulation says Senior Members wear the gray epaulet sleeve with their rank insignia....you interpet that.

Where does it implicitly say that SMWOG do not wear epaulet sleeves?

I stand by my original statement.  SMWOG on the white aviator shirt wear the blank epaulet sleeve as is noted in FIG 4-2 Note 2.

It is everyone else who are stating something that is not in the regulation.

I see where they think that they are right.....and I see where what I thing is right.  The reason why two (or more) grown adults can read the same regulation and come up with two radically different interpretation is because (as I said in my last post) the REGULATION SUCKS!

I wonder what KB says?.....oh that's right we can't use KB to resolve these issues 

[a2capt]

We can't use the KB for these kinds of questions? Was that published somewhere?

This is even getting more comical.

An official channel that won't deal with issues of a certain nature. What does that really tell you?

[Eclipse]

I wonder what KB says?.....oh that's right we can't use KB to resolve these issues 

Says who?

Any answer the KB gives me that doesn't conflict with a published reg (etc.), I accept and move on (now go use search and find some place three years ago I disagreed with the KB).

SMWOG's don't wear blank sleeves - even VG lists them now as for "enlisted".   

[lordmonar]

Oops....sorry projecting an argument thrown at me from another thread.

Okay brass tacks.

I tell my new SM not to buy anything for the uniform.

I tell them not to wear a uniform until they get 2d Lt.  It is just a waste of time.

The OP asked a question....I look in 39-1 in the appropriate section saw that the only mention is the note on fig 4-2 and I passed that info on to the OP.

End of story.

You want to argue......call NHQ.

[Hawk200]

The REGULATION sucks!  This is just one more instance of how poorly the reg is written.

So that justifies bad info? It's OK to lie to someone just so you can demonstrate "how poorly the reg is written"?

I did not lie....the regulation says Senior Members wear the gray epaulet sleeve with their rank insignia....you interpet that.

Where does it implicitly say that SMWOG do not wear epaulet sleeves?

I stand by my original statement.  SMWOG on the white aviator shirt wear the blank epaulet sleeve as is noted in FIG 4-2 Note 2.

It is everyone else who are stating something that is not in the regulation.

I see where they think that they are right.....and I see where what I thing is right.  The reason why two (or more) grown adults can read the same regulation and come up with two radically different interpretation is because (as I said in my last post) the REGULATION SUCKS!

I wonder what KB says?.....oh that's right we can't use KB to resolve these issues 

The blank grey epaulet wasn't used for that purpose, and you are quite familiar with that. Or did your retirement come with a side order of Alzheimers?

How about instead of actually putting misleading information out, you actually make an attempt to do something about it? It's childish to whine when you can do.

[lordmonar]

Gee....why the hate?

[spacecommand]

It has always been my understanding that SMWOG wear CAP cutouts on the collars of the whites and blues, and CAP cutouts on the lapel of the service jacket, but they do not wear epaulets. 
However, even vanguard is confused (or correct) (I really don't know) but they list the blank epaulets as:

Civil Air Patrol - Enlisted Senior Member Gray Epaulets
Grey epaulet - enlisted senior member (no rank).
http://www.vanguardmil.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_390_408_2035_2037&products_id=7207

My understanding was that the blank epaulets were for the few number of Senior member NCOs to pin their insignia on, however if I recall regulations say NCO's pin their insignia on their collars and lapels like SMWOG.  I could be wrong though.