CAPTalk Site Dynamics Discussion

Started by bflynn, March 30, 2012, 09:13:37 PM

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bflynn


Extremepredjudice

Quote from: bflynn on March 30, 2012, 08:26:34 PM
For the Original Poster - welcome, don't let the haters get you down.  They like to attack, probably because they forget there's a person at the other end of the keyboard.
Wait, you mean all of these people on here are real? My world has been shattered.

But seriously, don't hate on a new cadet for asking questions, even if it is above their "pay grade"
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

EMT-83

No one was dog-piling or hating on the OP; we asked valid questions.

This thread is 10 posts deep, and still no one has a clue of what training he's looking for and why a C/Amn would be starting a program.

jimmydeanno

Quote from: EMT-83 on March 31, 2012, 03:30:02 AM
and why a C/Amn would be starting a program.

Because most units have less than 10 cadets, and most units don't have C/Officers.  Because most units put the responsibility of "fixing" the unit onto new cadets because they show enthusiasm.  Or, he's a C/Amn and realizes that he didn't get trained all that well because of the above things and is showing initiative to make sure that the same thing doesn't happen again.

The reasons are numerous, but they don't really matter.  He came and asked for some info about how to train new cadets and is being told not to worry about it because he's a C/Amn, or "go read the regs", or "use the search function."
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Eclipse

Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 31, 2012, 11:25:04 PM
The reasons are numerous, but they don't really matter.  He came and asked for some info about how to train new cadets and is being told not to worry about it because he's a C/Amn, or "go read the regs", or "use the search function."

Actually, he was told to use the "Great Start Program", and then advised this should not be his problem.

Both answers are 100% correct.

"That Others May Zoom"

jimmydeanno

"If you do nothing than you're just part of the problem."

I just find it funny that of all the griping, pissing, and moaning that people do on this board, the folks who actually come here for some assistance and represent the antithesis of what people are griping about seem to get their motives questioned, told to stay in their lane, etc.  If this is supposed to be a resource for people, just answer the question.  If you don't want to, go to the next topic.

If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

Eclipse

Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 01, 2012, 12:36:47 AM
"If you do nothing than you're just part of the problem."

Sometimes doing nothing forces others to do their job, or, as in this case, doing nothing is your job.

"That Others May Zoom"

bflynn

I'll note that the new cadet here who has all of six posts has not responded to the follow up questions.  So, because I presume he was genuinely here asking for help, there is a cadet squadron wallowing out there and potentially a cadet wondering if this is what CAP is really about

Perhaps some respect in responses is called for by all members?

Cadet Kerala, if you're still out there, please ask your question again so we can try to understand your situation a little better.

Eclipse

#8
Quote from: bflynn on April 01, 2012, 05:53:38 PM
I'll note that the new cadet here who has all of six posts has not responded to the follow up questions.  So, because I presume he was genuinely here asking for help, there is a cadet squadron wallowing out there and potentially a cadet wondering if this is what CAP is really about

So then you disagree with the actual answer which was provided, several times?

Also, "kerala" is not the Cadet's name, and Magic City doesn't appear to be "wallowing".

"That Others May Zoom"

bflynn

Quote from: Eclipse on April 01, 2012, 06:31:56 PMSo then you disagree with the actual answer which was provided, several times?

Also, "kerala" is not the Cadet's name, and Magic City doesn't appear to be "wallowing".

Disagree with the answer?  I don't think we had understanding on what the question was.

Additionally, I don't believe many members, including yourself, responded in a respectful manner.

Eclipse

Quote from: bflynn on April 01, 2012, 07:33:32 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 01, 2012, 06:31:56 PMSo then you disagree with the actual answer which was provided, several times?

Also, "kerala" is not the Cadet's name, and Magic City doesn't appear to be "wallowing".

Disagree with the answer?  I don't think we had understanding on what the question was.

Q: How to start a Cadet Basic Training Program?
A: Use Great Start.

Looks pretty straightforward to me.

The first two responses asked a legit question, #3 provided the answer.

"That Others May Zoom"

bflynn

I'm sure that because you know exactly what the cadet meant, you gave them exactly the information they needed.

Where did the cadet go?  Why did CapTalk apparently loose/fail to gain yet another member?

754837

My guess is he quit because he was so poorly treated (no kidding, right!).  I wonder if he also made the post to try and participate in a dialog with other members.  That sure was a mistake.

SarDragon

Nah, he posted something around noon on Friday.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

bflynn

Well, at least there is that.

Why is this place so toxic?

Extremepredjudice

Quote from: bflynn on April 02, 2012, 08:31:11 PM
Well, at least there is that.

Why is this place so toxic?
a toxic waste dump is right next to the datacenter
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

SarDragon

Primarily personalities, and an unwillingness for people to respect others' ideas.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Pylon

This was split from the How to start a Cadet Basic Training Program thread.  The discussion on site dynamics isn't unfounded, but I wanted to keep the original thread focused on the central topic of cadet programs management and training new cadets.  The discussions of why our site tends to devolve into dog-piling and unhelpful comments can be hashed out separately.


Original thread:  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=15054


Feel free to continue here.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

johnnyb47

I didnt want to post in the original thread because i thought it would have just made the overall experience worse for the OP but:
I find it interesting that at a squadron meeting we would ask another senior member, especially a higher ranking one, for a private side-bar discussion when we believe they are wrong. If I found, for instance, Elipse' responses to a cadets question to be blunt, discouraging or even wrong I would ask him aside to discuss it in private.
Yet online we seem to have this "OMG THIS GUY/GIRL IS WRONG AND I NEED TO SHOW THEM UP IN FRONT OF AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE" mentality.

Most of the reason I stopped posting a few months ago was I found myself making similar comments. That's not like me and I prefer to keep it that way.
I think we need to stop for a minute before hitting the post button and decide if we should cut and paste what we are saying in front of new members, cadets and the general public into a PM and send it that way in stead.

I'm not against healthy debate. I'm not even against well-spirited banter. I just think the personal attacks are so anti-core values that some of us should be ashamed to go back and read what we've put into the public domain.
Capt
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Pylon

From my standpoint, the original and only purpose of this site is to be a resource for members.  Jerry and I launched CAPTalk so that CAP members, both senior members and cadets -- just like the OP in the original thread -- could ask exactly those types of questions and draw good ideas and advice from experienced members across CAP.  As some of us point out, there are more than a handful of units out there that have small memberships, lots of new members, or lack members with extensive backgrounds in one particular area of CAP's missions or another. 


I've noticed the same that over the last handful of months that members' posts have become increasingly abrasive, rude, or just discouraging -- especially to the newer members or those with questions we view as "simple" or "obvious". 


I'm asking all of us to think before we hit the post button to consider the tone and usefulness of every post.  If what you've written isn't how'd you'd answer a new member or prospective member's question at an open house or recruiting event, insofar as tact, politeness, and professionalism, then just don't post it.   I don't want to have to moderate more, because as adults and CAP members we should be entirely capable of using tact and professionalism in everything we do.   We have to remember that CAPTalk is not the back-room at the squadron meeting where everyone can stand around smokin' and jokin' -- everything we post here is public, indexed by Google, and also read by new members, parents, clients of CAP, and prospective members alike.   


Bottom Line:  If you wouldn't say it that way to an prospective member or their parent at an open house for your unit, don't say it like that here.

If we continue to have the vitriol and abrasiveness that I've seen recently, I'm just going to ask (and by ask, I mean remove account posting privileges for) members to not post for 30+ days to reflect on if their contributions here are truly positive in nature.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP