sUAS Teams, Puerto Rico, and Tropical Storm Dorian

[THRAWN]

Yep. Couldn't make it past page one without sidetracking the excitement of real mission work, and going to uniforms. Its CAPTalk after all. LOL

It may seem trivial to you, but it may be a symptom of a greater issue.

If this Member cannot or will not follow the Manual about something as simple as a uniform, what else may he be disregarding? The first page of a checklist because he 'knows' his drone is good to go? Checking the tire pressure of his Plane or Van because they look good?

My point is: if a Member cannot adhere to the smaller details, how can we trust them with the larger issues?

Also, this is bad from a PR perspective.. we need to follow our own rules and look the way that CAP and the AF expect us to look.

The grooming standards are there for a reason.

[etodd]

If this Member cannot or will not follow the Manual about something as simple as a uniform...

This all needs to be in the Uniform Forum.

When "management" at Wing and National levels starts adhering ... and we stop seeing guys that look pregnant with triplets busting out of dress blues, wearing the wrong shoes, hats, etc., etc. .... it'll be easier for the rank and file to follow their example.

Yes, I know. Its easier for you guys to vent on the rank and file, than it is to call out publicly those above you in the chain.

90% of my flying is non-cap.  Wearing whatever is comfy for the day. My clothes don't have jack to do with my going over checklists properly and being a safe pilot. Might actually be better, since "I'm Not" having to worry over my uniform and can concentrate on the tasks at hand.

Yes, yes ... none will agree ... but hey ... how many years have you guys been arguing uniforms on CAPTalk?  For some, its must be your fav hobby.

'nuff said ... Puerto Rico is safe ..... go ahead and shut this thread down. LOL

[etodd]

The information I read was that it wasn't a REAL mission as it wasn't an AFAM.

We sure spent a lot of money sending them down there without there being a real mission...

Not sure of the answer to that.  But in my view, if FEMA calls us up and Hdqs deploys us ... its a real mission.  The bean counters at Hdqs can deal with whether its AFAM or not. Not my realm.  Crews get deployed, flown via commercial to a location, put up in hotels with per diem for food.  Sounds real enough for me.

[PHall]

The point is that this was NOT an Air Force Assigned Mission. It was a mission requested by FEMA which means it was a "Corporate" mission.
The differences are in funding sources and insurance coverage.
And the thing about the uniforms. If you can't be bothered to follow a simple rule like wear the right clothes, why should we trust you with our expensive equipment?
It's a trust issue...

[etodd]

The point is that this was NOT an Air Force Assigned Mission. It was a mission requested by FEMA which means it was a "Corporate" mission.

"I" never said AFAM . I just said official mission, whatever that means.  I could care less whether its AFAM or Corporate.  Its about the mission of helping people in need.  Its real, its happening.

And the thing about the uniforms. If you can't be bothered to follow a simple rule like wear the right clothes, why should we trust you with our expensive equipment?

No one has ever found fault with me in my polo. I do just fine thank you.  I have no control over other people in other Wings. What me worry? There are enough of you guys to handle that.

[Spam]

If this Member cannot or will not follow the Manual about something as simple as a uniform...

This all needs to be in the Uniform Forum.

When "management" at Wing and National levels starts adhering ... and we stop seeing guys that look pregnant with triplets busting out of dress blues, wearing the wrong shoes, hats, etc., etc. .... it'll be easier for the rank and file to follow their example.

Yes, I know. Its easier for you guys to vent on the rank and file, than it is to call out publicly those above you in the chain.

90% of my flying is non-cap.  Wearing whatever is comfy for the day. My clothes don't have jack to do with my going over checklists properly and being a safe pilot. Might actually be better, since "I'm Not" having to worry over my uniform and can concentrate on the tasks at hand.

Yes, yes ... none will agree ... but hey ... how many years have you guys been arguing uniforms on CAPTalk?  For some, its must be your fav hobby.

'nuff said ... Puerto Rico is safe ..... go ahead and shut this thread down. LOL

etodd, you know that I've supported the sUAS mission since its inception, as a strategic necessity. We have clear DoD customer needs to provide counter sUAS training support (note my white house incursion comments here years ago), we have emergent and urgent DR customer needs, and we have a constant AE mission. All three of these requirements drive a need for a real UAS program. I also am on the record (here, and publicly in my own Wing) calling for adherence to uniform standards, starting with my own behavior.


That said, you are absolutely full of crap on this response, and you are deflecting more than Wonder Womans bracelets.


YOU posted the picture of members knowingly violating USAF uniform standards. You posted them in this thread, bragging away and now excusing and deflecting and trying to shut down people calling out this behavior, which indeed reflects poorly on our USAF customer, and, since adherence to procedures and process is a leading index of poor attitudes, calls into question our adherence to sUAS qualification standards (informal and non standard as they may be).


You need to stop trying to excuse, deflect, and divert attention from a member who by rights should be grounded right now. I speak as a guy who has indeed grounded people in my Wing... and this absolutely qualifies. Were I to find that this member was from my Wing, I would ground his quals in a minute, and suspend the SET quals of whomever signed him off, pending review. I've done the same for ground and fixed wing ops folks, as my members know. No difference here. If you signed him off, then more the need for you to get with the standards, or turn in your SET quals.

"90% of my flying is non-cap.  Wearing whatever is comfy for the day. My clothes don't have jack to do with my going over checklists properly and being a safe pilot".

Regarding operational discipline, if you cannot see the importance in these differences between flying as a civilian and flying in CAP (fixed wing manned, remotely piloted, whatever) then CAP is not for you. Quit now, rather than persisting with the eye rolling and blame shifting and deflection, and excusing noncompliance with CAP regulations.


V/r
Spam

[etodd]

Quit now ....

But I'm having too much fun, and locally there are lots of folks that depend on me. You might actually like me in person.

CAPTalk is just a little playground. Poking the bear is a fun game, and so many of you predictably go off into rants with just the smallest of nudges. 

[xyzzy]

[slightlyofftopic]
I'm not sure which I find more hilarious, the way out of CAPM 39-1 hat, or the vest that screams "LOOK AT WHAT I'M DOING" in complete disregard to what the task guide says about being discrete.

Outside of looking tacticool,  there's zero reason why sUAS crews (except cadets), should be wearing ABUs/BDUs/CFUs on an actual mission/deployment.
Polo, tac pants, vest, and any needed PPE. That's it.
 
[/slightlyofftopic]

Corporate uniforms in an environment where cadets are present are less than ideal. If an outsider needs to find an adult who is responsible for the supervision and care of a cadet, the outsider can just look around for an adult wearing the same uniform as the cadet. But if the adults are wearing a different uniform, they will be harder to identify.

[RiverAux]

After one major historic mission in which I participated in which CAP miserably failed to take advantage of PIOs and what they could do, I saw this problem and dedicated a significant number of years to that specialty and it truly saddens me if it is true that no PIO was assigned to this mission.  Failure to take advantage of being a national organization in the electronic age that does allow for a lot of mission public affairs work to be done remotely is just maddening to me.  I think I'll finally be heading to the ghost squadron soon....

[Eclipse]

[slightlyofftopic]
I'm not sure which I find more hilarious, the way out of CAPM 39-1 hat, or the vest that screams "LOOK AT WHAT I'M DOING" in complete disregard to what the task guide says about being discrete.

Outside of looking tacticool,  there's zero reason why sUAS crews (except cadets), should be wearing ABUs/BDUs/CFUs on an actual mission/deployment.
Polo, tac pants, vest, and any needed PPE. That's it.
 
[/slightlyofftopic]

Corporate uniforms in an environment where cadets are present are less than ideal. If an outsider needs to find an adult who is responsible for the supervision and care of a cadet, the outsider can just look around for an adult wearing the same uniform as the cadet. But if the adults are wearing a different uniform, they will be harder to identify.

This is made up non problem.

[etodd]

After one major historic mission in which I participated in which CAP miserably failed to take advantage of PIOs and what they could do, I saw this problem and dedicated a significant number of years to that specialty and it truly saddens me if it is true that no PIO was assigned to this mission.  Failure to take advantage of being a national organization in the electronic age that does allow for a lot of mission public affairs work to be done remotely is just maddening to me.

^^^^ Yes, yes.

As one who isn't privy to inside, but just making an observation:

FEMA wants sUAS "tomorrow". The Hdqs sUAS program starts calling sUAS Pilots "directly" and asking if they can be on a plane by noon next day. sUAS Crews head out.

Due to expediency ... the requests for pilots does NOT start at the top of the chain and work its way down to Squadron Commanders. We do NOT have that good of an Alert System.

So crews are heading out for a Mission ... and the PAOs, PIOs, whoever else .... are in the chain .... and wind up being clueless.

There needs to be a PAO or whatever  assigned specific to the sUAS Program. (?)

[Spam]

Quit now ....

But I'm having too much fun, and locally there are lots of folks that depend on me. You might actually like me in person.

CAPTalk is just a little playground. Poking the bear is a fun game, and so many of you predictably go off into rants with just the smallest of nudges. 

I very well might, in person. Tou seem like a funny guy and I wouldn't mind hoisting a jar with you.

Yet your childish attitudes and comments herein would probably force me to ground you and strip you of you quals and any SET duties. Your attitudes personify the hazardous attitudes that have led us into disarray and mishaps many times before, in the past, and your vast four years or so of membership doesn't equip you with the perspective necessary for you to back up the attitude.


You don't have the organizational experience here to recognize what you're saying, but you're getting a kick out of being a 'rebel', don't you. You do realize that by turning it back onto others with your repeated "poking the bears" jests, you are yet again deflecting? Deflect, deflect, deflect... shift the blame and focus, minimize, fall back onto the passive aggressive behavior, and ask to shut down the thread when people point out your violations?  That's not the behavior of someone who claims to be a trusted check pilot, if in fact you are.


V/r
Spam

[Spam]

The Hdqs sUAS program starts calling sUAS Pilots "directly" and asking if they can be on a plane by noon next day. sUAS Crews head out.

Due to expediency ... the requests for pilots does NOT start at the top of the chain and work its way down to Squadron Commanders. We do NOT have that good of an Alert System.

So crews are heading out for a Mission ... and the PAOs, PIOs, whoever else .... are in the chain .... and wind up being clueless.

There needs to be a PAO or whatever  assigned specific to the sUAS Program. (?)

Teammates, etodd sees the rest of CAP as the problem, rather than an Austin Worcester supervised, sUAS federated program problem.

We do have that good of a mission tasking system. We have a workable alerting system. We have good PAOs. We have dedicated command and operational networks.

What we don't have is an NHQ program which can color inside the freakin' lines and which chooses to follow the rules like the rest of us.


R/s
Spam

[etodd]

At this point ... I'm seeing a parallel of the sUAS Program ... to the Cell Phone Team.  Both work fairly autonomously.

Not saying its a good thing. Its just a developing program.

[JayT]

Yep. Couldn't make it past page one without sidetracking the excitement of real mission work, and going to uniforms. Its CAPTalk after all. LOL

That whole "mission first, who cares what we look like" nonsense doesn't fly. Professionals dress professionally. Someone rolling up in a hate like that screams "amateur."

[JohhnyD]

After one major historic mission in which I participated in which CAP miserably failed to take advantage of PIOs and what they could do, I saw this problem and dedicated a significant number of years to that specialty and it truly saddens me if it is true that no PIO was assigned to this mission.  Failure to take advantage of being a national organization in the electronic age that does allow for a lot of mission public affairs work to be done remotely is just maddening to me.  I think I'll finally be heading to the ghost squadron soon....

Word!

[Fubar]

At this point ... I'm seeing a parallel of the sUAS Program ... to the Cell Phone Team.  Both work fairly autonomously.

I don't think your analogy works here. The sUAS program is allegedly meant to be a local resource, with published SQTRs and regulations for anyone in CAP to pursue and follow. sUAS operations should integrate with existing aviation and ground operations, with plug-and-play experienced members and equipment that should work anywhere in the US. Of course at the moment, even with paid staff being assigned just to sUAS operations, we still aren't there yet.

The Cell Team is a national resource with a few specialists assigned to it that rarely work with anyone else in CAP (since CAP is rarely the SAR lead agency and usually not invited). They are not autonomous per se, if CAP was more of a SAR player they'd be just one part of CAP's response. Instead, they're just one part of the SAR mission, they happen to be the only part of CAP that agencies request.

The analogy would work better if there was a small national team of sUAS pilots that served as a deployable resource. While we still don't even officially have a sUAS program, it doesn't seem like that is the approach NHQ is taking with their emphasis on having every wing have pilots and equipment, including the appointment of DOUs in each wing.

I think you're confusing autonomous with the program being completely disorganized.

[ColonelJack]

Poking the bear is a fun game, and so many of you predictably go off into rants with just the smallest of nudges. 

Poking the bear is a fun game, but also dangerous.  You never know when the bear will see an opportunity to poke you in return.

It's never fun at that point.

Spam has good advice. 

Jack

[Fester]

If this Member cannot or will not follow the Manual about something as simple as a uniform...

This all needs to be in the Uniform Forum.

When "management" at Wing and National levels starts adhering ... and we stop seeing guys that look pregnant with triplets busting out of dress blues, wearing the wrong shoes, hats, etc., etc. .... it'll be easier for the rank and file to follow their example.

Yes, I know. Its easier for you guys to vent on the rank and file, than it is to call out publicly those above you in the chain.

90% of my flying is non-cap.  Wearing whatever is comfy for the day. My clothes don't have jack to do with my going over checklists properly and being a safe pilot. Might actually be better, since "I'm Not" having to worry over my uniform and can concentrate on the tasks at hand.

Yes, yes ... none will agree ... but hey ... how many years have you guys been arguing uniforms on CAPTalk?  For some, its must be your fav hobby.

'nuff said ... Puerto Rico is safe ..... go ahead and shut this thread down. LOL

If "management" went jumping off a cliff, would you follow?

[Pace]

I'm stopping this before it devolves even more. Other threads have similar content, and etodd has addressed his remarks in a seperate thread.