uniforms property of CAP?

[footballrun21]

I heard that cadets that have not been in CAP for a full year and quit have to give both their blues and BDUs to their squadron.  Is this true???

[MIKE]

F. These uniforms belong to CAP, not to the cadet. By signing the voucher, the cadet and parent/legal guardian acknowledges that the uniform has been purchased with federally appropriated funds and remains the property of the Civil Air Patrol. In the event the cadet withdraws from the cadet program (within the first year of membership), all uniform items must be returned (or replaced, if lost or damaged) to the local CAP unit. While the parent assumes the responsibility on behalf of their minor child, the squadron commander must also make every reasonable effort to retrieve these uniform items.

Cadet Uniform Program

This applies to the FCU issue only, but members usually would be required to return other CAP or unit property to include uniforms and equipment that they have been issued by the unit for them to use while a member.

[arajca]

If they purchased the uniforms, they do not have to give them back. But, it wouldn't hurt to ask if they would donate them to the unit.

Anything that was issued or received free from CAP needs to be returned.

[alpha06]

So, how doyou enforce this? I mean of someone is going to quit, they are just going to stop comming tomeetings. What are going to do? Stronghold them and make them give backthe unifors? This is a serious question though

[MIKE]

So, how do you enforce this?

Edited for clarity.

For the Cadet Uniform Program (formally FCU) uniforms at least the guidance I got was that you can't really enforce recovering the uniform.  I guess the rationale was that even though the cadet may have stopped attending meetings in most cases they haven't formally quit and remain on the units MML until there membership is terminated for failure to renew at the end of their membership year.

I could see making more of an effort to recover the uniform if you had to actually give notice and actually terminate your membership when you decide not to participate further, rather than just non-renewing at the end of the membership year.

For other unit property there should be a paper trail that says who has custody of what property with signed binding agreements to return said property at the request of proper authority or termination of membership .

[Pylon]

So, how do you enforce this?

Edited for clarity.

For the Cadet Uniform Program (formally FCU) uniforms at least the guidance I got was that you can't really enforce recovering the uniform.  I guess the rationale was that even though the cadet may have stopped attending meetings in most cases they haven't formally quit and remain on the units MML until there membership is terminated for failure to renew at the end of their membership year.

I could see making more of an effort to recover the uniform if you had to actually give notice and actually terminate your membership when you decide not to participate further, rather than just non-renewing at the end of the membership year.

For other unit property there should be a paper trail that says who has custody of what property with signed binding agreements to return said property at the request of proper authority or termination of membership .

Now there's the deeper question:

Can CAP require return of its issued property, such as FCU-issued blues, without a formal termination of membership?

Personally, I say: Yes.  The FCU remains property of CAP until CAP gives possession of the uniform to the cadet after their first year.  CAP should be able to ask for its property back from the person holding on to it, regardless of their membership status.  If CAP wants it back, CAP gets it back.

However, regardless of membership status or who really owns the uniform, in practice most units lose these uniforms and never recover them.

[SarDragon]

There IS a paper trail, fo sorts, but it doesn't seem to trickle down to the units too well. Wing HQ gets a periodic printout of all cadets who have received FCUs during the previous period (quarter ?), and should be sending it down to the units so they can kep track.

[devone529]

In my squadron, in order to quite you need to talk to the Commander, and turn in your uniform or else the will continually E-Mail you. Otherwise, I dont know how to enforce it.

[RogueLeader]

A notice to the Sheriff that they have stolen property works pretty good. But this is also a 7 year necro.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Must be a record.

[MSG Mac]

There IS a paper trail, fo sorts, but it doesn't seem to trickle down to the units too well. Wing HQ gets a periodic printout of all cadets who have received FCUs during the previous period (quarter ?), and should be sending it down to the units so they can kep track.

That report is available to Commanders in E services.

[RogueLeader]

There IS a paper trail, fo sorts, but it doesn't seem to trickle down to the units too well. Wing HQ gets a periodic printout of all cadets who have received FCUs during the previous period (quarter ?), and should be sending it down to the units so they can kep track.

That report is available to Commanders in E services.

Again, that was a hold over from when e-services wasn't so functional.

[SarDragon]

There IS a paper trail, fo sorts, but it doesn't seem to trickle down to the units too well. Wing HQ gets a periodic printout of all cadets who have received FCUs during the previous period (quarter ?), and should be sending it down to the units so they can kep track.

That report is available to Commanders in E services.

Indeed it is. Today, 2012.

The Commander's Corner was nothing more than a dream in 2005, when my post was written.

[SarDragon]

Must be a record.

I think so. 

[docbiochem33]

A notice to the Sheriff that they have stolen property works pretty good. But this is also a 7 year necro.

All equipment issued to a cadet or senior is CAP property.  Calling the Sheriff or local PD sometimes works, but many times if there is not a record it is a he said he said argument that they don't want to deal with.  I have been in a unit with a cadet that kept all of his gear and we spent hours trying to find him and when the S.O. showed up he told them he didn't have it.  We then saw him at an activity with all of his LBE on.  We tried to recover it, but the people he was with said that he had bought it all from them and so the S.O. wouldn't act.

The best thing to do if you have a meeting place is to make cadets keep all field gear at the unit and issue it out as they need it.  It sounds like a problem, but it can save a lot of money.  I personally bought about $300.00 worth of gear for about $50.00 and the unit has none of it left.

[Private Investigator]

There IS a paper trail, fo sorts, but it doesn't seem to trickle down to the units too well. Wing HQ gets a periodic printout of all cadets who have received FCUs during the previous period (quarter ?), and should be sending it down to the units so they can kep track.

That report is available to Commanders in E services.

Indeed it is. Today, 2012.

The Commander's Corner was nothing more than a dream in 2005, when my post was written.

How did we manage all those years without "Commanders Corner"?

[Mustang]

Now there's the deeper question:

Can CAP require return of its issued property, such as FCU-issued blues, without a formal termination of membership?

Personally, I say: Yes.  The FCU remains property of CAP until CAP gives possession of the uniform to the cadet after their first year.  CAP should be able to ask for its property back from the person holding on to it, regardless of their membership status.  If CAP wants it back, CAP gets it back.

However, regardless of membership status or who really owns the uniform, in practice most units lose these uniforms and never recover them.

As the dude who originally suggested this policy (and has a nifty Cadet Programs paperweight in thanks for it), I'd say no.  There have been problems in the past with units requiring new cadets to turn in their FCU-provided uniforms as soon as they received them, which were then used to outfit drill teams/color guards with new uniforms every year.  That which can be abused, will be abused. Sigh....

For all intents and purposes, FCU-provided uniforms belong to the cadet to which they were issued. The idea behind the policy I suggested was to help stretch FCU funding as far as possible. Many new cadets quit during that first year, having worn that uniform maybe a dozen times, if that; still plenty serviceable for other new cadets who came in after FCU funds were exhausted for that year and would not otherwise receive a funded uniform. 

[MSG Mac]

When submitting for the Free Cadet Uniform, the application states that if the member quits the program before the end of the 1st year, they are supposed to return the uniform to the unit.

[Devil Doc]

As the Newly appointed supply officer, im going to do it Military style. We have Uniforms and items donated to us. I am in the process of giving every item a number, or doing a database. The uniforms will be locked up, so no one but people with authority can get them.  I will issue them, record it in WIMRS, then have them sign a paper with what they were issued. Also, if they need an exchange, it will be done the same way. You cannot deny, when the paper is signed.

[PHall]

As the Newly appointed supply officer, im going to do it Military style. We have Uniforms and items donated to us. I am in the process of giving every item a number, or doing a database. The uniforms will be locked up, so no one but people with authority can get them.  I will issue them, record it in WIMRS, then have them sign a paper with what they were issued. Also, if they need an exchange, it will be done the same way. You cannot deny, when the paper is signed.

You do know that by creating paper records you're just making one more thing for you to be inspected on, right?
So you better make sure that everything jives or you'll be the one answering the ROS.

[arajca]

As the Newly appointed supply officer, im going to do it Military style. We have Uniforms and items donated to us. I am in the process of giving every item a number, or doing a database. The uniforms will be locked up, so no one but people with authority can get them.  I will issue them, record it in WIMRS, then have them sign a paper with what they were issued. Also, if they need an exchange, it will be done the same way. You cannot deny, when the paper is signed.

1. Don't use WIMRS - it's not set up for that. You need to use ORMS.
2. Read CAPR 174-1, in particular Chapter 2. Here's a relevant excerpt:

a. Expendable property issue. Use the on-line Form 111a, or if not available, create a locally generated spreadsheet to issue expendable property not listed in ORMS (e.g., uniform items, sleeping bags and other individual use items). Property management officers may access the form through ORMS. Record all expendable property issued on this form. Do not issue non-expendable property with the on-line Form 111a. Items will remain on the CAPF 111a until turned in or for 3 years from the date of issue, whichever occurs first. After 3 years from the date of issue items are automatically deleted from the individual's on-line Form 111a.

3. If you can access ORMS, you cannot use a paper form.
4. Even with non-expendable equipment, paper forms are not kept (except for cadets whose parents need to counter sign the form), for more than seven days. Keeping them longer is against regs and can be a finding on an inspection.

[Devil Doc]

Good points guys, i am new at this. I was told if i keep paper and Electronic files only the Expendable things is the ones i have to keep track of. The Misc stuff donated to CAP that is not CAP property does not get inspected, only what is CAP Property. I still want to keep track of both, And yes i meant ORMS.

[arajca]

If it's donated to CAP, it's CAP property. If it's someone's personal stuff, make sure it's labelled as such and do not worry about it.

[Eclipse]

If it's donated to CAP, it's CAP property. If it's someone's personal stuff, make sure it's labelled as such and do not worry about it.

+1 - having "stuff" around that is not clearly labeled as "CAP" or "not CAP" will raise eyebrows and lower scores on an SUI.

[Devil Doc]

Gotcha, thanks bro, I volunteered for the Job because the CC needed someone, im always willing to try out new things

[Devil Doc]

We were going to invent a Numbering system. CAP00001 is CAP Property, PER0001 is Personal property that CAP is borrowing. Sounds in the right direction?

[PHall]

We were going to invent a Numbering system. CAP00001 is CAP Property, PER0001 is Personal property that CAP is borrowing. Sounds in the right direction?

Do yourself a favor and read up on ORMS. Should answer many of your questions.

[arajca]

We were going to invent a Numbering system. CAP00001 is CAP Property, PER0001 is Personal property that CAP is borrowing. Sounds in the right direction?

No. Personal property needs to have a tag with the member's name. That's it. Since it is not CAP property, you don't track it. PERIOD. It is not your (or your unit's) responsibility.

CAP non-expendable equipment has asset tags and numbers already. Expendable supplies and equipment are not required to be marked, except for DMRO sourced supplies and expendable equipment such as sleeping bags and rucks.

Download and read CAPR 174-1. That has the details and the approved wheel design.

[Devil Doc]

instead of tagging it with a members name, im going to number iit,  then put a name to the cooresponding number. I will talk to the logistic officer about what to do.

[SarDragon]

instead of tagging it with a members name, im going to number iit,  then put a name to the cooresponding number. I will talk to the logistic officer about what to do.

Again, you're reinventing the wheel.

Do not use property tags to identify personal property. Personal property on loan or in use at a CAP facility or operation should be tagged or labeled personal property and should include the name and telephone number of the owner.

Yes, it says should instead of shall, but an inspector will be looking for a compelling reason for doing it differently.

[Eclipse]

Just label anything not CAP-owned as "personal property of..." it doesn't even have to be someone who is a member of CAP.  The key is the personal label
which then means you >don't< track the stuff.

[Devil Doc]

Gotcha, thanks