USAF Ribbon for AFIADL Course Completion ?

[SAR-EMT1]

I came across this information today on one of the Air University Websites.

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The NCO Professional Military Education Graduate Ribbon is issued by the United States Air Force and is awarded for completion of proscribed non-commissioned officer professional development programs. Such programs include Airman Leadership School (ALS), Non-Commissioned Officer Academy (NCOA), and the Senior Non-Commissioned Officer Academy (SNCOA). Wear of this ribbon is mandatory for all graduates. Subsequent attendance is shown by the bronze and silver oak leaf cluster.

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From what I take from this, CAP members who complete these through AFIADL should have permission to wear this ribbon, right?  - Even assuming the 'mandatory wear' refers to AD/ANG enlisted, If we (CAP) take the course we should get the ribbon. -

[ArkAux]

Are those courses even open to CAP members? 

[dhon27]

Looking at the course descriptions on the AFIADL website, it does not seem that one is elgible to take these course solely by virtue of their CAP membership.

[ddelaney103]

Negative, Ghostrider...

That ribbon is only given for completion of the "in residence" versions of these courses.  Back in the day when the AD types had a choice (nowadays in residence courses are almost always mandatory for AD) the ribbon was a way to encourage people to go to the courses instead of just ECI'ing it.  Nowadays, Reservists and Guardsmen are the only ones still using the AFIADL courses.

[SAR-EMT1]

If there was an in residence requirement, then why the phrase about issue/wear applying to all graduates?

Why not say, wear of ribbon mandatory for IN RES ?
Do Guard/Reservists not wear this ribbon?

[PHall]

If there was an in residence requirement, then why the phrase about issue/wear applying to all graduates?

Why not say, wear of ribbon mandatory for IN RES ?
Do Guard/Reservists not wear this ribbon?

Because they never updated the reg. And you thought that CAP was the only one's who did that!

Air Guard and Reserve do get the ribbon, if they attend the course in residence.

[Cobra1597]

Because they never updated the reg. And you thought that CAP was the only one's who did that!

But getting taken over by the Air Force is supposed to solve all of CAP's bureaucratical problems. They are perfect after all. 

[lordmonar]

Because they never updated the reg. And you thought that CAP was the only one's who did that!

But getting taken over by the Air Force is supposed to solve all of CAP's bureaucratical problems. They are perfect after all. 

[Cecil DP]

Of course there's always the little question of being a member of the Air Force (including the Guard and Reserve).

[Hawk200]

Negative, Ghostrider...

That ribbon is only given for completion of the "in residence" versions of these courses.  Back in the day when the AD types had a choice (nowadays in residence courses are almost always mandatory for AD) the ribbon was a way to encourage people to go to the courses instead of just ECI'ing it.  Nowadays, Reservists and Guardsmen are the only ones still using the AFIADL courses.

If there was an in residence requirement, then why the phrase about issue/wear applying to all graduates?

Why not say, wear of ribbon mandatory for IN RES ?
Do Guard/Reservists not wear this ribbon?

Because they never updated the reg. And you thought that CAP was the only one's who did that!

Air Guard and Reserve do get the ribbon, if they attend the course in residence.

To address one, and reinforce the other. The current AFI 36-2803 says:

"6.  Automatically updated when PME graduation certification data is entered in the PDS.  Do not award the ribbon to members who only complete the correspondence courses or similar training conducted by other military services except for completion of the US Army Sergeant Major Academy or the Navy Senior Enlisted Academy."

Emphasis added. Got to read the instruction on it, the AFIADL website is not established policy for uniform wear or awards and decs criteria.

[DNall]

Just a side note, those courses are open to CAP members. Once into SOS, I had the option to open enroll in a lot of other courses. Those included all the online CAP courses, several AF instructor courses, and NCOA. There isn't any reason you couldn't enroll, just no reason you need to.

What you might be more interested in on this train of thought is the AF training ribbon. That's awarded for completion of ASBC, SOS, ACSC, or AWC. However, it's traditionally awarded in the AF for completion of tech school, so no one ever considered if CAP should be able to get it for completing the higher level correspondence work. I'd tend to think the ruling would contain the same in-res requirement, but it's never been considered, and for now there's no language restricting it to in-res.

[PHall]

What you might be more interested in on this train of thought is the AF training ribbon. That's awarded for completion of ASBC, SOS, ACSC, or AWC. However, it's traditionally awarded in the AF for completion of tech school, so no one ever considered if CAP should be able to get it for completing the higher level correspondence work. I'd tend to think the ruling would contain the same in-res requirement, but it's never been considered, and for now there's no language restricting it to in-res.

Hunh??  Funny, the reg says it's for completing Initial Assention Training. i.e. BMT, ROTC, OTS or USAFA.

[Hawk200]

What you might be more interested in on this train of thought is the AF training ribbon. That's awarded for completion of ASBC, SOS, ACSC, or AWC. However, it's traditionally awarded in the AF for completion of tech school, so no one ever considered if CAP should be able to get it for completing the higher level correspondence work.

'Fraid not. From AFI 36-2803, "Air Force Training Ribbon: Award to Air Force members on completing an Air Force accession (AFTR) training program (BMT), officer training squadron (OTS), Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC), Academy, Medical Services, Judge Advocate (JA), Chaplain orientation, and so forth.  May be awarded to Guard and Reserve members who complete appropriate training.  (See note 8.)"

The note 8 that was referenced is this: "May not be awarded for completing technical training, career development courses, and other services' basic training.  Completing later accession training (BMT, then commissioning through a program, and so forth) will entitle a member to a subsequent award denoted by an oak leaf cluster."

AFI 36-2803 is the only authorized instruction when it comes to the award of Air Force awards and decorations. For those interested, it can be downloaded from here:

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI36-2803.pdf (Just right click and "Save as..)

[DNall]

hmm my mistake. been a few months since I looked that over. Could have sworn it says accessions training, and then lists SOS among a few other items. Not that it matters. If AF were to grant some of their awards to CAP members, training ribbons are not the range of stuff I'd be real interested in.

[Hawk200]

hmm my mistake. been a few months since I looked that over. Could have sworn it says accessions training, and then lists SOS among a few other items. Not that it matters. If AF were to grant some of their awards to CAP members, training ribbons are not the range of stuff I'd be real interested in.

I do know that the Army awards the ASR when you finish your primary MOS school. I recieved one when I finished 15T school at Eustiss in June. It was a bit of a surprise when they handed me a DD214 with it listed on there. Kinda nice, but I was more concerned about the wings on that form.

[DNall]

Roger that... know the feeling. BOLC II then AOBC/IERW coming, unless they jack up my paperwork again.

[PHall]

I think you confused the Air Force Training Ribbon with the USAF NCO PME (Professional Military Education) Graduate Ribbon.
When you complete Airman Leadership School (ALS) you get the basic ribbon.
When you complete the NCO Academy and the Senior NCO Academy, in residence, you get an oak leaf cluster for each school.

Officers don't get any ribbons for completing their PME.

[O-Rex]

First of all, to get a USAF ribbon, you have to be a (CAC) card-carrying member of the club.

CAP awards enough PD ribbons without us attempting to try to pester the USAF for more.

[DNall]

First of all, to get a USAF ribbon, you have to be a (CAC) card-carrying member of the club.

I'm a CAC carrying member of the Army, does that count?

Seriously though, you're mistaken on that one. If you'll look, most AF ribbons/medals are awardable to civilians and many are. For example, the Aerial Acheivement Medal, which is no small accomplishment. I saw a story a while back where it was awarded to a contractor. I know AF contractors & civil service folks who are also in the ARNG who are awarded AF decs for their civilian service & are fully authorized/documented to wear them on their Army uniforms. It's not that big a deal, really. The issue is it's AF approval authority, not delegated down into CAP.

Off topic warning:

CAP awards enough PD ribbons without us attempting to try to pester the USAF for more.

That on the other hand is true. I've stated many times I support knocking that down quite a bit. I'd suggest a "CAP Training ribbon" (membership ribbon) awarded for completion of intial entry training. Call that Lvl I & tech, designate sr/master ratings there w/ stars. Lvl III-V on a second CAP PD ribbon, again w/ stars for level. There ya go, done deal.

Now what I meant by "other"... if you'll take a look through the reqs in the AF reg, a lot of that stuff can be awarded to civilians. The stuff that tends to not be awardable to civilians is actually the more mundane end of the spectrum. In that case I think the AF should issue a policy letter or mod their reg when it comes up stating that CAP members are to be considered AF personnel for the purposes of awards/decs eligibility, that the same standards used in the AF will be applied, that CAP or mil personnel may initiate rec, but award authority is exclusively at AF command level specified in the reg via the CAP-USAF or other operational chain of command.

Then underneath that policy you whack out half our stuff, and what will not be awardable, you create a CAP mirror version of w/ a similar name & similiar but distinctly dif design. So like the CAP achievement medal, etc.

/end off topic train of thought.

[SAR-EMT1]

Seems that awhile back the folks at NHQ knocked out a few things to discourage us from asking the AF for these things.
I would be interested in earning AF ribbons, not because I need more or need my ego stroked, but to challenge myself.  I can already earn CG ribbons from the CGAUX.

As for the AF Training ribbon, a few months back  I brought up the idea here of getting this ribbon for SOS completion. My source on that one was MILITARY.com they >used to< state that the ribbon could be awarded for SOS with oak leaves for ACSC and AWC.