USAF O-6 blue

[LSThiker]

Just a quick question for the USAF types and probably rather naive.  Below is a link to the hi-resolution image of USAF Col (Ret) Leon Ellis.  He is talking with some company grade officers at Offutt AFB.  He retired in 1990 and this photo is recent.  Why does he have a Bird with a blue background on a green flight suit?

http://www.offutt.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2015/01/150105-F-XV591-001.jpg

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Good question and loads of answers, probably none of which are correct.

Do AF regs still allow the ultramarine insignia that we use to be used on their flight suits?  If not, the Colonel is out of uniform and (horrors) could be mistaken for a CAP officer!

Honestly, I could not tell you the last time I saw AF personnel wearing the ultramarine blue, except for the late Robin Williams in "Good Morning Vietnam."

[Flying Pig]

He retired 25yrs ago?  Everything on that flight suit just looks old.  Perhaps that is his "speaking uniform" and his 25yrs out of the military have just caused him to loose some attention to detail.  I would venture to guess there is no real "reason" for why he has them.  He does however, appear to be quite the stud.  2 Silver Stars, Purple Heart, 2 Bronze Stars with "V", POW Medal.......  Perhaps he's keeping the connection with how it was done when he was in Vietnam

[Alaric]

Just a quick question for the USAF types and probably rather naive.  Below is a link to the hi-resolution image of USAF Col (Ret) Leon Ellis.  He is talking with some company grade officers at Offutt AFB.  He retired in 1990 and this photo is recent.  Why does he have a Bird with a blue background on a green flight suit?

http://www.offutt.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2015/01/150105-F-XV591-001.jpg

I believe retired military officers can wear the uniform that was current when they retired (as that would be the uniform they own)

[Майор Хаткевич]

He has a Georgia University patch with a bulldog. Does he instruct at the school? May be his own flight suit, and he put on his birds, but distinctive enough to not be confused for AD.

[Storm Chaser]

Just a quick question for the USAF types and probably rather naive.  Below is a link to the hi-resolution image of USAF Col (Ret) Leon Ellis.  He is talking with some company grade officers at Offutt AFB.  He retired in 1990 and this photo is recent.  Why does he have a Bird with a blue background on a green flight suit?

http://www.offutt.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2015/01/150105-F-XV591-001.jpg

I believe retired military officers can wear the uniform that was current when they retired (as that would be the uniform they own)

That's correct. Although IIRC, Air Force officers wore subdued grade insignias 25 years ago. The insignia he's wearing is much older than that (unless he bought it from VG under the CAP section ).

[Eclipse]

[lordmonar]

He's got something blue on his right chest as well.

But quite possibly......he......wait for it......just wanted to wear what ever he wanted to wear......

[MSG Mac]

He retired 25yrs ago?  Everything on that flight suit just looks old.  Perhaps that is his "speaking uniform" and his 25yrs out of the military have just caused him to loose some attention to detail.  I would venture to guess there is no real "reason" for why he has them.  He does however, appear to be quite the stud.  2 Silver Stars, Purple Heart, 2 Bronze Stars with "V", POW Medal.......  Perhaps he's keeping the connection with how it was done when he was in Vietnam

Where are these ribbons you're referencing?

[jeders]

He has a Georgia University patch with a bulldog. Does he instruct at the school? May be his own flight suit, and he put on his birds, but distinctive enough to not be confused for AD.

Prior to retirement, the Col was an ROTC instructor at the University of Georgia. My guess is that that's the last flight suit he had prior to retirement, and that's why the shoulder patch.

IIRC, Air Force officers wore subdued grade insignias 25 years ago. The insignia he's wearing is much older than that (unless he bought it from VG under the CAP section ).

I believe for most of his career, it was plastic encased insignia on the flight suit. I believe you're correct that by '89 they had transitioned to subdued. Is it possible that the version of AETC that existed in the 80's wore white on ultramarine on the flight suits since they didn't go down range?

[GroundHawg]

The right breast patch is from the 1st SOW

[Eclipse]

This would be a much better option for CAP.

[Eclipse]

The right breast patch is from the 1st SOW

[lordmonar]

This would be a much better option for CAP.

+1

[Alaric]

He retired 25yrs ago?  Everything on that flight suit just looks old.  Perhaps that is his "speaking uniform" and his 25yrs out of the military have just caused him to loose some attention to detail.  I would venture to guess there is no real "reason" for why he has them.  He does however, appear to be quite the stud.  2 Silver Stars, Purple Heart, 2 Bronze Stars with "V", POW Medal.......  Perhaps he's keeping the connection with how it was done when he was in Vietnam

Where are these ribbons you're referencing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_F._%22Lee%22_Ellis

[Flying Pig]

He retired 25yrs ago?  Everything on that flight suit just looks old.  Perhaps that is his "speaking uniform" and his 25yrs out of the military have just caused him to loose some attention to detail.  I would venture to guess there is no real "reason" for why he has them.  He does however, appear to be quite the stud.  2 Silver Stars, Purple Heart, 2 Bronze Stars with "V", POW Medal.......  Perhaps he's keeping the connection with how it was done when he was in Vietnam

Where are these ribbons you're referencing?

Col Ellis is a legit war hero who often lectures on leadership

[flyboy53]

There are several answers to this question.

First, remember that ROTC falls under AETC which at the time of his retirement still wore colored insignia on their flight suit uniforms.

Second, he is a retired field grade officer who is entitled to continue wearing the uniform at the appropriate times and that uniform can either be the one in effect at the time of his retirement or the current one if he still has some sort of status with the Air Force. When Jimmy Doolittle and Ira Eaker were advanced to full general back in the mid-1980s; although both officers were long retired, the pinning ceremony showed them in the current uniform -- which was unique for Eaker because he retired from the Army Air Forces shortly before it because the U.S. Air Force.

Finally, Air Force flight crews tend to bend the rules a little sometimes. I would suspect the good colonel is showing kinship with current officers. The Air Force, like the CAP did for the longest time, used to wear an organizational patch on the right breast of a flight suit and jacket. I think it changed to a command emblem sometime in the late 1960s. I'm sure that 1st SOW is a much more impressive than an AETC or ATC patch when trying to impress current officers. Also, the key to the era of the flight suit may best be illustrated by the scarf, which I can't identify.

Here's one for you. Did you know that Air Force still wore ultramarine name tapes and wing badges on their flight suits well into the 1980s. The plastic rank on the flight suits was worn by MAC crews during Desert Storm.

[jeders]

Found this photo of an ATC class from the 80s (around the time Col Ellis retired). Of note is the cloth white on ultramarine name tapes and the full color on ultramarine rank insignia. So yes, it looks like he is wearing his flight suit as it was configured upon retirement.

[PHall]

In 1992 when ATC died and AETC was born they also changed the officer grade insignia that was worn on the flight suit to the current blue on green subdued insignia for all MAJCOM's in the entire Air Force.
Before 1992 differnt MAJCOM's wore different insignia. i.e. SAC wore the blue on green subdued, ATC wore white on blue, MAC wore the plastic encased rank.

[LTCinSWR]

Looking at his Wikipedia page, IMHO, he should be entitled to wear whatever he feels like. However, I suspect that the insignia are correct for when he retired. I have heard him speak (it's been awhile)He is a professional, a warrior and wouldn't sully his uniform or reputation with affectations.

Stay Safe!
Larry

[LSThiker]

Looking at his Wikipedia page, IMHO, he should be entitled to wear whatever he feels like. However, I suspect that the insignia are correct for when he retired. I have heard him speak (it's been awhile)He is a professional, a warrior and wouldn't sully his uniform or reputation with affectations.

Did not see this post, but just wanted to respond even though it is a bit old.  My intention was not to say he was not professional or to "sully his uniform or reputation".  Rather a mere curiosity question that involved a bit of history on the USAF uniform, especially since you rarely see the different combinations of flight suit uniforms on USAF uniform history pages.

Thank you PHall for explaining the different variations to the ATC, SAC, and MAC uniforms.

[PHall]

Looking at his Wikipedia page, IMHO, he should be entitled to wear whatever he feels like. However, I suspect that the insignia are correct for when he retired. I have heard him speak (it's been awhile)He is a professional, a warrior and wouldn't sully his uniform or reputation with affectations.

Did not see this post, but just wanted to respond even though it is a bit old.  My intention was not to say he was not professional or to "sully his uniform or reputation".  Rather a mere curiosity question that involved a bit of history on the USAF uniform, especially since you rarely see the different combinations of flight suit uniforms on USAF uniform history pages.

Thank you PHall for explaining the different variations to the ATC, SAC, and MAC uniforms.

Yeah, I got to listen to my pilots grumbling about having to go get their grade insignia changed out, at their cost.
Poor babies...

[Storm Chaser]

The ultramarine grade insignia doesn't look terribly bad and it's more practical (and cheaper) than plastic encased. Since there's a historical use of these insignias in the Air Force, why can't National approve them for CAP?

[lordmonar]

The ultramarine grade insignia doesn't look terribly bad and it's more practical (and cheaper) than plastic encased. Since there's a historical use of these insignias in the Air Force, why can't National approve them for CAP?

a) No one has asked the uniform committee to ask the commander to ask the USAF.
b)While the plastic rank is a PITA.....it is not that big of a PITA that makes it a "priority" for  the NUC.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It's a PITA if you don't have an awl or icepick to pre-punch the holes in the plastic.

Why couldn't we go to the navy-blue cloth insignia?  It looks good on the blue flight suit.  It is also incomprehensible to me why we are not permitted to use the navy-blue grade/nametapes on the BBDU.

Almost as logic-defying is why metal grade is one of the many elephant-in-the-room uniform subjects NUC is not allowed to/unwilling to broach...but yet it is OK for us to wear it on the BBDU hat!

[Eclipse]

It's a PITA if you don't have an awl or icepick to pre-punch the holes in the plastic.

Never seen this issue - my standard sewing machine has never had an issue, but I agree it should
just be ultramarine blue cloth, or dark blue, or orange, or even green / bright like the Navy wears today.

Almost as logic-defying is why metal grade is one of the many elephant-in-the-room uniform subjects NUC is not allowed to/unwilling to broach...but yet it is OK for us to wear it on the BBDU hat!

The last thing you'd want is pin-on grade sticking in your shoulder.

The member's grade is already on the namebadge - just ditch it on the shoulder altogether - one less
thing to buy and sew.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Well, SOME of us aren't clever enough to have sewing machines....   I had to learn to sew when I was in the BSA because my mother had arthritis and couldn't handle a needle very well.

I didn't mean metal grade for the flight suit, unless it had epaulettes.  I have a green zoom bag with epaulettes that I got in the mid-90's.

Nameplate-only grade is how it's done for enlisted/NCO aircrew in the Air Force.  I imagine that as our NCO corps develops, it will be that way in CAP as well.

But orange?  It would be nearly impossible to see the embroidery on orange cloth, except for maybe second looies and gold bottlecaps.

Having said all that, I would not mind doing what the USAF experimented with a few years ago.  Ditch nametapes and collar junk altogether, and go with leather nameplates on the BBDU's.  That would really be K.I.S.S.

[winterg]

I was on active duty in the AF when we went to the leather aircrew name patch on the BDU's. 

It was almost universally reviled by one and all.  I seriously doubt it would be received any better today in CAP. 

[lordmonar]

I was on active duty in the AF when we went to the leather aircrew name patch on the BDU's. 

It was almost universally reviled by one and all.  I seriously doubt it would be received any better today in CAP.

I like it at first......but by the time they started making us wear stripes as well.....by then it was just stupid.

[winterg]

I was on active duty in the AF when we went to the leather aircrew name patch on the BDU's. 

It was almost universally reviled by one and all.  I seriously doubt it would be received any better today in CAP.

I like it at first......but by the time they started making us wear stripes as well.....by then it was just stupid.

The only winner from 1990 to 1996 was AAFES Clothing Sales.

[lordmonar]

I was on active duty in the AF when we went to the leather aircrew name patch on the BDU's. 

It was almost universally reviled by one and all.  I seriously doubt it would be received any better today in CAP.

I like it at first......but by the time they started making us wear stripes as well.....by then it was just stupid.

The only winner from 1990 to 1996 was AAFES Clothing Sales.

No....they hated it too.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I was on active duty in the AF when we went to the leather aircrew name patch on the BDU's. 

It was almost universally reviled by one and all.  I seriously doubt it would be received any better today in CAP.

That was the AF, and I remember being told that it was because of officer recognition, failing to receive salutes.

For us, that really wouldn't matter, since, except for cadets, in my experience C&C's among SM's in CAP has long gone down the pipe.

Or we could have something like on the Goretex jacket; a fitting to slide the single rank/CAP marking.

The BBDU is, after all, a work/duty uniform and not something supposed to be worn to show off how many patches you can wear.