USAF Unit Citations awarded to CAP?

[flyboy53]

Since #3 and #4 NEVER happen......we are where we are today.

CAP is always CAP.....even when we are directly support and Air Force Mission (ala Green Flag).

And the Army is always the Army... yet it has received numerous USAF unit citations. 

True....but I have yet to see any CAP unit.....with maybe the exception of the Green Flag Group and it daughter squadrons.....do anything even close to rate a USAF AFOUA or a  AFOEA.

So....what's the point.

I submit you that you just admitted that there are units within CAP that have performed at levels that could be recognized by a USAF unit citation... that's the point.

There are always exceptional units that perform to a level that is recognized by the Air Force, but that's not the point lordmonar's making. Whether or not some Air Force unit commander recognizes a CAP unit's service as worthy of a unit award, the reality of it is that the recognition would not be anything like an AFOUA or AFOEA. More than likely that commander would either coordinate with a higher CAP headquarters for a Unit Citation or author/approve/sign it himself as a nominator (not the approving authority). That doesn't include those few instances when a State Adjutant General presents something similar (a state award/unit citation), but that's a whole other story.

All this discussion about Air Force unit awards -- though spirited at times -- forgot one very important thing. That these unit awards are a process that fall within cycles and are usually done in coordination with a unit historian or the PA Shop. The most successful ones that I'm aware of always began with the unit historian and then the nomination climbs through channels all the way to the Air Staff for approval because it is a unit level award equal to an individual award of the Legion of Merit. It is never just given. At least that was always my experience -- AND -- the nomination is generally pages of justification. I know this because I helped write a successful one and then provided data, statistics and other justification for another successful one.

I'm sorry but in reality I've never seen a CAP unit -- even the most successful ones -- stand up to the sustained criteria necessary for an AFOUA -- which is another reason why we have our own.

[Shuman 14]

Flyboy1,

I concur that an AFOUA, based on the criteria you outlined above, would be hard to sustain for a CAP unit. The only way I could think it might fly is as an anniversary award to the CAP as a whole in 2016 for 75 years of dedicated volunteer service to the USAF and the Nation.

There is Precedence for this, the USCG has awarded the Coast Guard Unit Citation (CGUC) to the USCGAux on several major anniversaries.

What are your thoughts on an AFOEA? Lower level award, so I'm guessing the requirements are not as in depth as for an AFOUA?     

[Eclipse]

If CAP ever exhibits OE, we can talk.

[Shuman 14]

If CAP ever exhibits OE, we can talk.

Way to talk bad about yourself, I've only ever good and positive things from CAP.

[Eclipse]

If CAP ever exhibits OE, we can talk.

Way to talk bad about yourself, I've only ever good and positive things from CAP.

And as an experienced member and one who has worked hard to make things better, I've earned the right to make
that comment.  The first step to fixing things is accepting the reality of the way they are, not how we wish they were.

While we manage to accomplish our missions, usually through far too much last-minute brute force, organizationally
we're a mess - inconsistent training, leaders chosen using their presence as the primary factor, and competing
factions within almost every echelon as to what our mission is or should be.

The means to fix it exists, but generally requires more attrition and uncomfortable conversations then commanders
and NHQ is willing to accept.

[Private Investigator]

Good points indeed. I am optimistic on most things but CAP is a good example of the Prieto Principle. 20% of the Senior Members do 80% of the Senior Member work.

We do have a disconnect between NHQ and the local Squadron Commander. Part of it is a lack of knowledge of "Commanders Intent" and the other is a combination of the 'good ole boy network' and running the unit like a little league team or a boy scout troop. i.e. putting their personal interests ahead of the mission.

JMHO YMMV

[flyboy53]

Flyboy1,

I concur that an AFOUA, based on the criteria you outlined above, would be hard to sustain for a CAP unit. The only way I could think it might fly is as an anniversary award to the CAP as a whole in 2016 for 75 years of dedicated volunteer service to the USAF and the Nation.

There is Precedence for this, the USCG has awarded the Coast Guard Unit Citation (CGUC) to the USCGAux on several major anniversaries.

What are your thoughts on an AFOEA? Lower level award, so I'm guessing the requirements are not as in depth as for an AFOUA?   

I concur with Eclipse and Private Investigator, but to answer your question. the AFOEA is not the lesser of the two awards. It is equal.

The AFOUA was created in 1954 and has the distinction of being the first "independent" USAF decoration or unit award. It is awarded to a "NUMBERED" unit for exceptionally meritorious service, specific acts of outstanding achievement, excellence in combat operations against an armed enemy, or conducting distinctive military operations with exposure to hostile force against an armed enemy. It is awarded with the "V" device if the nomination is based on combat operations. I am fortunate enough to have earned six of these with two that I was directly involved in the nomination either as the author or having assisted with. And, just to let you know, the AFOUA that I authored was six pages of single-line justification.

The AFOEA was authorized by the Secretary of the Air Force in 1969. It is awarded to "UNNUMBERED" Air Force internal organizations that are entities within larger organizations which conduct operations meeting the same criteria of an AFOUA. These are unique, unnumbered organizations or activities that perform same functions normally performed by numbered wings, groups, or squadrons. It also is awarded with a "V" device if combat related. I earned two AFOEAs. It is probably the rarest of the unit awards in terms of being seen on uniforms because of the nature of the unnumbered organizational criteria.

Something else to know is that there are ribbons for these unit awards and USAF-issued lapel pins that can be worn with civilian clothes because of the nature of these decorations.

If CAP were ever to earn anything like these two awards, I speculate that it would be the AFOEA, but the nomination would have to begin with CAP-USAF and submitted through channels to the Air Staff, and either CAP-USAF or the Air Staff would have to stipulate that the award included the CAP side.

Now, as to why, the USCG Auxiliary gets to wear USCG awards? I suspect that has more to do with several aspects of that organization that CAP never was to the Air Force. You are aware that the USCG Auxiliary was organized (and created under federal law) in World War II as a Reserve of the Coast Guard. That basis in federal law and the changes that occur in the years that follow, allow "Auxies" to perform duties that CAP members can only dream about -- like standing watch or Officer of the Day duties, flying on a USCG aircraft or even manning a USCG boat.

There seems to be a much greater integration of function between the USCG and the USCG Auxiliary than exists between the USAF and the CAP. I would hope that our leadership is working to correct that.

[RiverAux]

to perform duties that CAP members can only dream about -- like standing watch or Officer of the Day duties, flying on a USCG aircraft or even manning a USCG boat.

There actually isn't anything that prevents the AF from using CAP members in the same way.  As a reminder from Title 10 Sec 9442:

The Secretary of the Air Force may use the services of the Civil Air Patrol to fulfill the noncombat programs and missions of the Department of the Air Force.

So, the AF could use CAP members to fly their C130s around the US and do a multitude of other tasks.  I'm not saying there is a need or that the AF should use CAP for something so extreme, but its possible. 

Yes, the AF should make more use of CAP members but I really doubt that it is going to happen so long as there is billions to be made by private contractors. 

[Garibaldi]

to perform duties that CAP members can only dream about -- like standing watch or Officer of the Day duties, flying on a USCG aircraft or even manning a USCG boat.

There actually isn't anything that prevents the AF from using CAP members in the same way.  As a reminder from Title 10 Sec 9442:

The Secretary of the Air Force may use the services of the Civil Air Patrol to fulfill the noncombat programs and missions of the Department of the Air Force.

So, the AF could use CAP members to fly their C130s around the US and do a multitude of other tasks.  I'm not saying there is a need or that the AF should use CAP for something so extreme, but its possible. 

Yes, the AF should make more use of CAP members but I really doubt that it is going to happen so long as there is billions to be made by private contractors.

Hey, I'd loooooove to fly a C-130 around. Airdropping a ground team and equipment...

[Shuman 14]

Flyboy1,

I concur that an AFOUA, based on the criteria you outlined above, would be hard to sustain for a CAP unit. The only way I could think it might fly is as an anniversary award to the CAP as a whole in 2016 for 75 years of dedicated volunteer service to the USAF and the Nation.

There is Precedence for this, the USCG has awarded the Coast Guard Unit Citation (CGUC) to the USCGAux on several major anniversaries.

What are your thoughts on an AFOEA? Lower level award, so I'm guessing the requirements are not as in depth as for an AFOUA?   

I concur with Eclipse and Private Investigator, but to answer your question. the AFOEA is not the lesser of the two awards. It is equal.

The AFOUA was created in 1954 and has the distinction of being the first "independent" USAF decoration or unit award. It is awarded to a "NUMBERED" unit for exceptionally meritorious service, specific acts of outstanding achievement, excellence in combat operations against an armed enemy, or conducting distinctive military operations with exposure to hostile force against an armed enemy. It is awarded with the "V" device if the nomination is based on combat operations. I am fortunate enough to have earned six of these with two that I was directly involved in the nomination either as the author or having assisted with. And, just to let you know, the AFOUA that I authored was six pages of single-line justification.

The AFOEA was authorized by the Secretary of the Air Force in 1969. It is awarded to "UNNUMBERED" Air Force internal organizations that are entities within larger organizations which conduct operations meeting the same criteria of an AFOUA. These are unique, unnumbered organizations or activities that perform same functions normally performed by numbered wings, groups, or squadrons. It also is awarded with a "V" device if combat related. I earned two AFOEAs. It is probably the rarest of the unit awards in terms of being seen on uniforms because of the nature of the unnumbered organizational criteria.

Something else to know is that there are ribbons for these unit awards and USAF-issued lapel pins that can be worn with civilian clothes because of the nature of these decorations.

If CAP were ever to earn anything like these two awards, I speculate that it would be the AFOEA, but the nomination would have to begin with CAP-USAF and submitted through channels to the Air Staff, and either CAP-USAF or the Air Staff would have to stipulate that the award included the CAP side.

Now, as to why, the USCG Auxiliary gets to wear USCG awards? I suspect that has more to do with several aspects of that organization that CAP never was to the Air Force. You are aware that the USCG Auxiliary was organized (and created under federal law) in World War II as a Reserve of the Coast Guard. That basis in federal law and the changes that occur in the years that follow, allow "Auxies" to perform duties that CAP members can only dream about -- like standing watch or Officer of the Day duties, flying on a USCG aircraft or even manning a USCG boat.

There seems to be a much greater integration of function between the USCG and the USCG Auxiliary than exists between the USAF and the CAP. I would hope that our leadership is working to correct that.

Thank you for the information and the history lesson on the two awards; I just learned something today. 

[Eclipse]

..allow "Auxies" to perform duties that CAP members can only dream about -- like standing watch or Officer of the Day duties, flying on a USCG aircraft or even manning a USCG boat.

"Dream about"? Seriously?  Standing watch or being an OOD? 
I seriously doubt an appreciable number of members over the age of 21 "dream about" standing watch or sitting at a desk and recording who comes into a building, or for that matter,
processing Tri-Care paperwork, or any of the other duties that the now (apparently) defunct VSAF program purported members could or would do.  In the appropriate situation most of
us would happily do it, but just like SUI's, that's not why we joined.

Members join for a lot of reasons, but if history and our churn rate show us anything, they generally don't join to do their day job on a volunteer basis in their off time, nor are they interested in
any of the mundane administrative jobs that most USAF people perform day-to-day as their primary CAP duty.  We all put up with them because we have to, but that's not why we joined, nor would it
do us much good to put that high on recruiting collateral.

As to flying on USCG aircraft - not really a factor in the mostly land-locked CONUS, but we get O-Rides on USAF vehicles all the time.  I've had a 130-ride, and my former unit has recently done 130 and KC135 rides, they aren't that hard to get.   Also, we have our own planes.

For some reason what is missed when people try and compare CAP to the CGAux is that absent augmentation, there is no other role or mission, and in areas that have no boating or appreciable bodies of water, there's no CGAux.  CAP has a whole bunch of work to do which is complimentary to the USAF's mission, but exists separately.  How it got there is complicated, but comparing the
services doesn't do much for either side.  The culture, relationships, and roles are completely different.  That doesn't make either "better", just different.

[Shuman 14]

I can think of one program that USCGAux does that CAP should really look into... augmenting Recruiting Offices.

[Eclipse]

I can think of one program that USCGAux does that CAP should really look into... augmenting Recruiting Offices.

Why?

We already have enough issues with CAP being viewed by some as a recruiting arm / fodder for the USAF as it is.
Not to mention the fact that, absent prior USAF service, CAP members aren't going to be exactly "informed" about
the intricacies of committing.

Not our lane, and I can't imagine why the CGAux is involved, either.

[lordmonar]

I can think of one program that USCGAux does that CAP should really look into... augmenting Recruiting Offices.

Why?

We already have enough issues with CAP being viewed by some as a recruiting arm / fodder for the USAF as it is.
Not to mention the fact that, absent prior USAF service, CAP members aren't going to be exactly "informed" about
the intricacies of committing.

Not our lane, and I can't imagine why the CGAux is involved, either.

No....but we could fill in paperwork, make the coffee, answer the phone, go with the recruiter to help set up and tear down at events......not necessarily doing the hard sell.

Second.....what is wrong with the USAF Auxiliary being viewed as a recruiting tool of the USAF?

Third.....while yes not everyone in CAP is prior military....there are lot of use who are and are informed about the intricacies of committing.  Just like not everyone is a pilot.....not everything CAP does has to be open to everyone.

YMMV

[RiverAux]

in areas that have no boating or appreciable bodies of water, there's no CGAux.

Yet, there are roughly as many CG Aux units (and members) as CAP units (and senior members). 

Standing watch or being an OOD? 

Yes, there are CG Aux members that specifically joined to do just that sort of thing.  Not a lot relatively speaking, but they're there. 

My estimate would be that if there were active AF and/or Air NG augmentation roles for CAP members that it could eventually result in a doubling of CAP members in units near Air Force and Air NG bases.  Possibly even more since there are significantly more potential roles and jobs for CAP members at these units than at a typical very small CG unit. 

However, it would require significant commitment by AF/Air NG and CAP to develop and support such programs.  Several SDFs with Air NG components show that there can be real uses of volunteers by these units. 

We already have enough issues with CAP being viewed by some as a recruiting arm / fodder for the USAF as it is.

Only by idiots.  Anyone who knows anything about the program realizes that isn't the case. 

[Mustang]

I seem to recall a discussion on CadetStuff a few years ago regarding CAP members being specifically mentioned in the applicable AFI as authorized to receive the AF small arms expert marksmanship ribbon if properly earned as part of a small arms qualification course taught by AF CATM instructors.  I don't remember the specific AFI and that thread was lost to a database dump IIRC.

[abdsp51]

I seem to recall a discussion on CadetStuff a few years ago regarding CAP members being specifically mentioned in the applicable AFI as authorized to receive the AF small arms expert marksmanship ribbon if properly earned as part of a small arms qualification course taught by AF CATM instructors.  I don't remember the specific AFI and that thread was lost to a database dump IIRC.

The AFI is 36-2803 and currently there is nothing in there about us being able to earn the small arms marksmenship ribbon from the AF.  And it is dated 2001.