USAF Unit Citations awarded to CAP?

[JoeTomasone]

And, let's not forget, that when we are "AUX ON"...

When?
..can't the Air Force put in for an award using our own award criteria, and our awards, separate from any USAF awards?

CAPR 39-3 doesn't seem to provide for it, but I am sure that it could be handled through CAP-USAF if the need arose:

"Who May Initiate Recommendations. Any CAP member having knowledge of an act or service meriting recognition may initiate a recommendation for an award, except that awards concerning commanders must be initiated at a higher command level or by the appointing authority for NEC members."

<shrug>

[Eclipse]

Yes, let's all run to see who can list the most obscure civilian decoration or WWII combat award.

We don't qualify for military decs, and certainly not the ones the OP asked about.

Again, I have to ask why don't you?

We aren't in the military.

As to the awards for Katrina and similar, that's very nice, and anyone can hand anyone else a certificate or a medal, but I'd hazard a guess that most of the orgs you listed
can't actually wear them on their uniforms. (certainly not the federal agencies).

[Shuman 14]

Yes, let's all run to see who can list the most obscure civilian decoration or WWII combat award.

We don't qualify for military decs, and certainly not the ones the OP asked about.

Again, I have to ask why don't you?

We aren't in the military.

As to the awards for Katrina and similar, that's very nice, and anyone can hand anyone else a certificate or a medal, but I'd hazard a guess that most of the orgs you listed can't actually wear them on their uniforms. (certainly not the federal agencies).

Yes and no. State awards can't be worn on a Federal uniform per Army regulations;  but then I seen former National Guard personnel do it while in the USA and USAR and not get called on it.

Most States' Military Departments authorize the wear of other States' awards and decorations after their own. The most common order of precedence is Federal decorations, the actual State's decorations and other States, within their own order of precedence, then alphabetically by State.


As to USCG and PHS unit awards, all are authorized for wear on the Army uniform, as are the unit awards of the USN/USMC, USAF, and NOAA.

My USCG-PUC and CGUC, both for USCGAux service, have both been properly entered into my Military record (2-1 and ORB) and I proudly wear them on my Army Uniform.

[Shuman 14]

And, let's not forget, that when we are "AUX ON"...

When?
..can't the Air Force put in for an award using our own award criteria, and our awards, separate from any USAF awards?

CAPR 39-3 doesn't seem to provide for it, but I am sure that it could be handled through CAP-USAF if the need arose:

"Who May Initiate Recommendations. Any CAP member having knowledge of an act or service meriting recognition may initiate a recommendation for an award, except that awards concerning commanders must be initiated at a higher command level or by the appointing authority for NEC members."

<shrug>

I guess the point I'm trying to make is... if a CAP unit did something worthy of a unit award, and it was in direct support of a USAF base or unit, and that USAF commander submitted that CAP unit for a USAF unit citation, thru his/her USAF chain of command, and it was approved by higher USAF authority...

WHY couldn't the CAP accept it and WHY wouldn't they allow the members of the cited unit to wear it? 

[UH60guy]

WHY couldn't the CAP accept it and WHY wouldn't they allow the members of the cited unit to wear it? 

Well, some of that goes to CAP's own regulation 39-1. Yes, we can wear military awards- but only the ones approved for use on USAF uniforms (I can't wear my Combat Action Badge, but that's a WHOLE separate sore subject on this board, I won't get off topic here), within a few additional restrictions. However, that's only on the "blues" uniforms.

If you're not in CAP yourself, you may not be aware of the "Corporate" uniforms. The CAP senior members who don't wish to wear USAF style blues or don't meet the weight/grooming standards have a different uniform that is CAP specific. It's basically gray pants with a white shirt. For that uniform, military decorations are expressly prohibited and only CAP's own awards are authorized. So in that case, in theory, a member could be in a unit awarded a USAF commendation, but not be allowed to wear it per CAPR 39-1.

The regulation for that uniform states:
10. CAP ribbons may be worn centered above the left breast pocket. No military ribbons may be
worn.
11. Only the CAP aviation badge and one additional CAP badge are authorized on this uniform. No military badges or devices are authorized.

[lordmonar]

Despite all this angst.

The USAF does not award CAP members military medals (at least not since WWII).  They could....assuming that there is no law limiting who can get the award.....and assuming that USAF interpret "anyone in the armed forces" to include CAP members.

So....that's the end of the argument.
There is nothing stopping them from awarding medals and unit citations to CAP members.....but they just don't.

If you know of a situation where a CAP unit or a CAP member contributed greatly to the USAF's mission in such a way that it deserved a military medal.  There is nothing stopping you from sending up to CAP-USAF.....or up your own chain of command (assuming that you were USAF personnel and that service was directly related to your unit/command).

I don't see it happening....as 99.999% of CAP personnel don't work that closely with USAF personnel and don't directly affect their missions.

[Eclipse]

WHY couldn't the CAP accept it

Two parts:

1) A CAP commander with common sense would accept it with a smile and gratitude, and display it proudly on his wall, perhaps even
making copies for the respective members, but making it clear the ribbon stay in the shadow box.

2) A USAF commander with common sense, and / or whatever board or officer makes the approval decisions would see that the
first sentence of these awards is generally related to the person or unit being in or a part of the military.  Of which CAP members are not, ergo,
we don't qualify, regardless of the service or the intention.

If a CAP member takes a bullet for the president, and then takes more bullets which deflect off the first one for each member of Congress and
the Supreme Court, he still can't be awarded a Medal of Honor.

and WHY wouldn't they allow the members of the cited unit to wear it? 

1) We aren't in the military, therefore do not qualify.

2) Our regulations indicate that the only military awards members can wear are those earned in another service, and
which are approved for wear on the USAF uniform (these leaves any number of legitimately earned decs and badges which
are not allowed for wear by CAP members.

3) There are CAP awards for individuals and units which can be awarded for various distinguished service, those would
be the appropriate decoration.

4) See #1.

[Shuman 14]

WHY couldn't the CAP accept it and WHY wouldn't they allow the members of the cited unit to wear it? 

Well, some of that goes to CAP's own regulation 39-1. Yes, we can wear military awards- but only the ones approved for use on USAF uniforms (I can't wear my Combat Action Badge, but that's a WHOLE separate sore subject on this board, I won't get off topic here), within a few additional restrictions. However, that's only on the "blues" uniforms.

If you're not in CAP yourself, you may not be aware of the "Corporate" uniforms. The CAP senior members who don't wish to wear USAF style blues or don't meet the weight/grooming standards have a different uniform that is CAP specific. It's basically gray pants with a white shirt. For that uniform, military decorations are expressly prohibited and only CAP's own awards are authorized. So in that case, in theory, a member could be in a unit awarded a USAF commendation, but not be allowed to wear it per CAPR 39-1.

The regulation for that uniform states:
10. CAP ribbons may be worn centered above the left breast pocket. No military ribbons may be
worn.
11. Only the CAP aviation badge and one additional CAP badge are authorized on this uniform. No military badges or devices are authorized.

You can wear a CIB, but not a CAB... that makes SOOO much sense, but I digress as well. 

No again, what is the logic of not wearing Federal decorations on the corporate uniform? Not sure what the Air Force instructions say, but Army regulations do not prohibit it? In fact, the Department of Veterans Affairs issued a white paper a few years ago saying it was allowed and proper for veterans to wear their earned decorations on civilian clothes and in fact encouraged it on national Holidays like Veteran's Day, Memorial Day, Armed Forces Day and Independence Day.

I worked for a civilian police department at one time where wearing your Federal decorations was authorized, we wore them under our Badges.

I guess it's CAP's uniform, they can set their rules for their uniform how they want, but it seems like a direct snub at those with Military Service to me.

[Eclipse]

I guess it's CAP's uniform, they can set their rules for their uniform how they want, but it seems like a direct snub at those with Military Service to me.

I can't begin to imagine why it's considered a "snub".  Our members a lucky enough to be able to wear them at all.   For most
people who leave the military, their last day in is the last time they wear any uniform, decorations, etc.  A lot of departments
and other organizations let their members wear military decs.  Whatever.  That's most likely some alderman's idea of "affinity"
more then it meaning anything to the public who sees them.

I don't personally really care either way, but they don't mean anything in a CAP context, and we have a contingent who
can't even be bothered to wear our decorations, but feel free to wear a chest full of military decs. I suppose that's semi-understandable for
newer members who would have nothing but a membership ribbon for a while, but when you see a sitting wing CC without a
single CAP ribbon, IMHO, that's a problem.

For clarity, this is not CAP's rule, this is the USAF's.

[Shuman 14]

2) Our regulations indicate that the only military awards members can wear are those earned in another service, and
which are approved for wear on the USAF uniform (these leaves any number of legitimately earned decs and badges which
are not allowed for wear by CAP members.)

Lots of badges... yes, almost all every other medal and ribbon in the US inventory is allowed on the Air Force Uniform, as outlined in AFI36-2903.

The version I found online was dated 2006, so I suspect it needs to be updated to included any awards created after that date and delete references to obsolete decorations no longer awarded (ie the WWII awards).

[abdsp51]

The most current edition is 2011 with changes that were incorporated last year.

[GroundHawg]

Yes, let's all run to see who can list the most obscure civilian decoration or WWII combat award.

We don't qualify for military decs, and certainly not the ones the OP asked about.

Again, I have to ask why don't you?

In my career I've seen one Service give another Service awards and civilian agencies too.

For example, when the GWOT first kicked off, there as a L&O Detachment within my BN that was mobilized to augment an USAF SF unit conducting Airbase security. At the end of their tour, all were awarded Air Force Force Protection Badges. Those were entered on the DD-214 at demob and entered into their 2-1 and SRBs.

Also I remember an Army Hospital once receiving a Public Health Service Unit Commendation.

Plus I can point to numerous times when the Coast Guard has awarded their unit citations to other Services and to the USCGAux. Biggest and best example of that is when the Coast Guard Presidential Unit Citation was awarded to the ENTIRE Coast Guard which specifically included the USCGAux and DoCG civilian employees.

The Coast Guard even awards certain of their Service ribbons to the USCGAux, specifically the Special Operations Service Ribbon and the Recruiting Ribbon.


Another example I'd like to point out was during Katrina, the State of Louisiana issued a blanket award of the Governor's Unit Citation and the LANG Emergency Service Ribbon to ALL military units that took part in the operations to include all Federal (USA, USAF, USN, USMC, USCG), State (ARNG, AFNG, SDF), foreign (French Naval Units) and Auxiliaries (CAP, USCGAux). Now I know that only the various National Guard and State Defense Force units involved could actually wear those ribbons... its the thought that counts.

Shuman, we post on military.com forums a lot. I have a different name there but we post and follow a lot of the same topics.

I was in LA and was awarded the "Seagull" medal, but didn't know and have never heard that we were supposed to get the Governors Unit Citation. Do you have any references for this?

USCG Aux can earn USCG Badges as well btw. The USCG Boat Forces Badge (both types) and the USCG Marine Safety Badge (Trident) can be earned as an Auxie.

[Shuman 14]

I can't begin to imagine why it's considered a "snub".  Our members a lucky enough to be able to wear them at all.

Sir, with respect, your own response is a snub at military service. Lucky to wear them? They EARNED them. I would believe most would consider the directive not to wear them as a snub. After reading thru 80 plus pages of the uniform forum, the consensus I see if most have no issue with the grey or blue corporate uniform, but they want Federal decorations authorized for wear on them.

For clarity, this is not CAP's rule, this is the USAF's.

Even on the Corporation uniform? I can see their oversight and control of the Air Force style uniform, but the Corporate as well? 

[Shuman 14]

The most current edition is 2011 with changes that were incorporated last year.

Thanks, do you have a link?

[abdsp51]

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2903/afi36-2903.pdf

[Shuman 14]

I was in LA and was awarded the "Seagull" medal, but didn't know and have never heard that we were supposed to get the Governors Unit Citation. Do you have any references for this?

I saw it in a press release many moons ago when it happened, maybe 6 months after Katrina hit. I personally don't have a hard copy I can send you... sorry. 

[Shuman 14]

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2903/afi36-2903.pdf

Thanks again.

[Eclipse]

I can't begin to imagine why it's considered a "snub".  Our members a lucky enough to be able to wear them at all.

Sir, with respect, your own response is a snub at military service. Lucky to wear them? They EARNED them. I would believe most would consider the directive not to wear them as a snub. After reading thru 80 plus pages of the uniform forum, the consensus I see if most have no issue with the grey or blue corporate uniform, but they want Federal decorations authorized for wear on them.

Yes, they EARNED them.  But not in CAP and they have nothing to do with CAP.  Think you can wear your decs on a Boy Scout uniform?  No?
How about the golf shirt you wear when you work with the ARC?  Nope.  That FEMA go team?  Uh uh.
U.S Ranger Corps?  Ok, probably.

Our members have been lucky privileged to wear a variant of the USAF uniform and afforded a place to wear their decs publicly.  Barring
CAP service, most would never wear them again.

Yes, even on a corporate uniform, since for starters, CAP, as an organization, has no authority to allow the wear of military decorations on a non-military uniform.
Their wear on the USAF-style uniform is an anomaly of our lineage and history, yet many members treat it as an inherent right, which, just like driving, it isn't.

[RiverAux]

If you know of a situation where a CAP unit or a CAP member contributed greatly to the USAF's mission in such a way that it deserved a military medal. 

Well, except for the glaring exception of CAP work with the AFRCC, you'd be right.

[Patterson]

Air Force Civilian Awards continue to be awarded to CAP members.  Just because you may not know of any in your area doesn't mean it's not happening.