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'rents: Family Involvement

Started by MIKE, August 17, 2007, 12:06:39 AM

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floridacyclist

#80
Quote from: Eclipse on August 24, 2007, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on August 24, 2007, 01:50:02 PM
CAP is a babysitting program.

Too sadly true.  Parents these days are too used to "dropping off" and "picking up".  What happens while they are at the mall is someone else's responsibility.

I find it interesting that there are those in CAP who try to limit parent's involvement in CAP and others who complain because they don't participate. Is it possible for a parent to win?
Gene Floyd, Capt CAP
Wearer of many hats, master of none (but senior-rated in two)
www.tallahasseecap.org
www.rideforfatherhood.org

Stonewall

Yes.  Here's the perfect situation for a parent.

Parent in CAP for a while, before their kid joins.  Establishes himself at the squadron level, maybe even serve as CC.

Kid joins CAP, dad moves to group or takes support job at the squadron like logistics.  That way he can stay out of son (or daughters) way, watch him/her enjoy CAP and then kick his butt out when he turns 18.  Then, dad becomces CC of squadron again.

;D
Serving since 1987.

ladyreferee

Quote from: SARMedTech on August 23, 2007, 09:03:01 PM
Quote from: ladyreferee on August 22, 2007, 07:38:33 PM
On the converse, what do you do with the situation where it is obvious that the command bends over backwards to make sure there is no conflict of interest, to the point of being doubly hard on the cadet?  In my case, I have to watch the command rip my cadets off.  I am not in a position of making decisions as I am just a paper pusher, yet I have to watch my cadets get treated as second class citizens by both the command and the other cadets. Yet when I squawk about the mistreatment, the command ignores me.  And I'm not talking about a few deals, floridacyclist, but constant mistreatment.  The bad taste in my mouth is making me seriously consider quitting.



Ma'am-

When you say your cadets in this context I assume you mean your children who are cadets. If you can in a general way, how are they being ripped off?  Is it promotions or awards or not being chosen for certain activities? I dont doubt that its happening and as you say clearly that it is happening often. But what is the severity of the mistreatment?  Are they being yelled at, or in someway hazed?  You see what I mean I think.

It isn't hazing exactly - it's more like "although I have never had any other cadet write two papers or give two speeches, I'm going to require you to do that if you want to be promoted."  And, "I'm not sure if you have leadership qualities for promotion, but I'm not going to give you a leadership position anyway." Oh, "I know you went to NCOS and your instructors said you worked hard, but I don't have time to read your file.  Also, "outside activities don't mean anything in our unit, even though you've attended everything we've ever asked of you" (like filling in for color guard practice when one on the team can't make it, all SAREX weekends, local fly-in parking patrols, helping watch the perimeter for fireworks patrol).  And how about "we think that attending meetings is very important, and even though you've only missed two meetings in 14 months, don't think that is going to help your case."  And then there is the "I'm going to mark it off on your BDU inspection, you didn't crease down the front of the pants, you only pressed them."

I think the cadets, who are my sons, are getting ripped off when they have to watch other cadets, who attend one or two meetings a month, don't attend any outside activities, and sit on each other's peer review boards (two are dating each other) get promoted every two months, while my cadets work hard, passed all the requirements the other cadets have and follow the rules, but still get told they don't qualify yet.  My younger cadet attended NCOS when he was told he couldn't promote without showing leadership.  Didn't matter, none of the other cadets have attended NCOS, so he must have only attended because his older brother went!  He hasn't been promoted for over five months.  The older one hasn't for seven months.  I'm just waiting for the command to pull the "you haven't been promoting twice a year, we'll have to pull your membership..."

Sure, I can take a sabbatical, but what does that teach my cadets?  That you can work really hard, play by the rules, but it doesn't matter in CAP because of some rotten people in the organization?  To give up when the going gets rough? Does it teach persistence or does it show stupidity on my part for not knowing when to quit - that our time is precious and shouldn't be wasted on small minded people?

I'm ladyreferee because I am a high school hockey referee, but I'm not good with dealing with the male coaches - I prefer to ref the girls games.  I get intimated too easily - I don't have the gonads needed sometimes.  So hockey is sort of the therapy I force myself to have.

It is never noticed that both sons call me ma'am and salute at meetings - but once when at an outside activity my older son called me mom - that was immediately reported and the commander accused me of crossing the boundary for major versus mom.  Problem was, my son was upset at having thought he had lost my cell phone and was reporting to me that that may have happened.  At that point he was more worried about what Dad would say, than what the Commander would say.

If it was a cut and dried hazing case, I could deal with that - send it IG's way.  But when it is this stuff, what do you do?   ???
CHERYL K CARROLL, Major, CAP

JaL5597

Quote from: ladyreferee on August 25, 2007, 03:26:52 AM
It isn't hazing exactly - it's more like "although I have never had any other cadet write two papers or give two speeches, I'm going to require you to do that if you want to be promoted."  And, "I'm not sure if you have leadership qualities for promotion, but I'm not going to give you a leadership position anyway." Oh, "I know you went to NCOS and your instructors said you worked hard, but I don't have time to read your file.  Also, "outside activities don't mean anything in our unit, even though you've attended everything we've ever asked of you" (like filling in for color guard practice when one on the team can't make it, all SAREX weekends, local fly-in parking patrols, helping watch the perimeter for fireworks patrol).  And how about "we think that attending meetings is very important, and even though you've only missed two meetings in 14 months, don't think that is going to help your case."  And then there is the "I'm going to mark it off on your BDU inspection, you didn't crease down the front of the pants, you only pressed them."

I think the cadets, who are my sons, are getting ripped off when they have to watch other cadets, who attend one or two meetings a month, don't attend any outside activities, and sit on each other's peer review boards (two are dating each other) get promoted every two months, while my cadets work hard, passed all the requirements the other cadets have and follow the rules, but still get told they don't qualify yet.  My younger cadet attended NCOS when he was told he couldn't promote without showing leadership.  Didn't matter, none of the other cadets have attended NCOS, so he must have only attended because his older brother went!  He hasn't been promoted for over five months.  The older one hasn't for seven months.  I'm just waiting for the command to pull the "you haven't been promoting twice a year, we'll have to pull your membership..."

Sure, I can take a sabbatical, but what does that teach my cadets?  That you can work really hard, play by the rules, but it doesn't matter in CAP because of some rotten people in the organization?  To give up when the going gets rough? Does it teach persistence or does it show stupidity on my part for not knowing when to quit - that our time is precious and shouldn't be wasted on small minded people?

I'm ladyreferee because I am a high school hockey referee, but I'm not good with dealing with the male coaches - I prefer to ref the girls games.  I get intimated too easily - I don't have the gonads needed sometimes.  So hockey is sort of the therapy I force myself to have.

It is never noticed that both sons call me ma'am and salute at meetings - but once when at an outside activity my older son called me mom - that was immediately reported and the commander accused me of crossing the boundary for major versus mom.  Problem was, my son was upset at having thought he had lost my cell phone and was reporting to me that that may have happened.  At that point he was more worried about what Dad would say, than what the Commander would say.

If it was a cut and dried hazing case, I could deal with that - send it IG's way.  But when it is this stuff, what do you do?   ???

Well if they are requiring above and beyond what is outlined in the regs I do believe there is an issue.  Expecially if there was no given reason for the 2 papers and 2 speeches. 

Cadets have to meet the requirements as outlined in 52-16 and commanders can not add other requirements to that.  If things are being withheld then your sons really need to insist on a CAPF 50 which should be done once a phase at minimum anyways.  That way whatever the percieved issues will be layed out and a plan needs to be developed to get them up to speed.

Don't worry your not alone on the frustration.  I've been there a few times and have walked away once before for a year before I came back.  I simply packed up my desk and left.  The only reason I went back was they needed me in the post Sept 11 days.

ZigZag911

Major Carroll,

What you have described here is a pattern of apparent discrimination against your sons.

If we were talking 'do this speech again, it was below standard' or something of that nature, then it would probably be simply a matter of the cadet not meeting required standards in a given instance. However that does not seem to be the case here.

If you can discuss this reasonably with the squadron CC you should do so.
I gather your husband is not a member, perhaps including him in this discussion would emphasize that this is a parental concern.

Another course of action would be to ask a chaplain you respect to mediate the matter.

I'd try those avenues first....assuming this is not some sort of personal vendetta, it's always best for everyone to resolve these matters as simply and informally as possible.

If that does not work (and CAP does have more than it's fair share of individuals who think they are the next Napoleon!), you always have recourse to the IG.

I wish you luck, and look forward to hearing how this works out.

Duke Dillio

This whole situation is interesting to me because if a cadet has met all of the requirements, he/she should be promoted.  I know there is a reg in there somewhere that says a squadron cc has the final promoting authority and that he/she can withhold promotion if they feel it is warranted, blah blah blah.  I remember my last squadron commander told me about his experience at the UCC where the wing legal officer stressed to the students there that withholding promotions for cadets was not a good idea.  He said that there had been several lawsuits due to this and unless the squadron cc had a really really good reason not to promote someone, i.e. intentional fraud/deceit in personnel records, patterns of misconduct, etc. that withholding promotions was a huge NO-GO.

Every cadet has leadership potential.  The best way to bring this out is to increase their responsibilities.  If there was another squadron close to you, I would consider a move.  If not, the IG might be the way to go but you also have to consider how the squadron cc will react to a call from the IG as well.  I would suggest reviewing all of the information you have.  Document everything that you can and then go have a discussion with the cc.  Show him lil Johnny has passed all tests, completed the moral leadership requirements, been to a squadron activity (if that is a requirement in your squadron), and completed all other requirements.  Document the meeting as well.  As soon as it is over, if there is no change, then I would contact the IG and show that you have exhausted all other efforts.  I cannot guarantee that good will come of this but at least it is something.