Aviation activities with Boy Scouts and Venturing

[Eclipse]

I've gotten a request from a local BSA leader for assistance with the Aviation merit badge and related activities.

I can't find a whole lot of info on what kind of support we can/should provide to outside groups like this.  The KB has some info on joint charters, but nothing I can find on this question.

Anyone have any experience with this?  Quoted regs always help.

I found this on the requirments:  http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php?title=Aviation

Requirements
   

   1. Do the following:

          a. Define "aircraft." Describe some kinds and uses of aircraft today. Explain the operation of piston, turboprop, and jet engines.
          b. Point out on a model airplane the forces that act on an airplane in flight.
          c. Explain how an airfoil generates lift, how the primary control surfaces (ailerons, elevators, and rudder) affect the airplane's attitude, and how a propeller produces thrust.
          d. Demonstrate how the control surfaces of an airplane are used for takeoff, straight climb, level turn, climbing turn, descending turn, straight descent, and landing.
          e. Explain the following: the recreational pilot and the private pilot certificates; the instrument rating.

   2. Do TWO of the following:

          a. Take a flight in an aircraft, with your parent's permission. Record the date, place, type of aircraft, and duration of flight, and report on your impressions of the flight.
          b. Under supervision, perform a preflight inspection of a light airplane.
          c. Obtain and learn how to read an aeronautical chart. Measure a true course on the chart. Correct it for magnetic variation, compass deviation, and wind drift. Arrive at a compass heading.
          d. Using one of many flight simulator software packages available for computers. "fly" the course and heading you established in requirement 2c or another course you have plotted.
          e. On a map, mark a route for an imaginary airline trip to at least three different locations. Start from the commercial airport nearest your home. From timetables (obtained from agents or online from a computer, with your parent's permission), decide when you will get to and leave from all connecting points. Create an aviation flight plan and itinerary for each destination.
          f. Explain the purposes and functions of the various instruments found in a typical single-engine aircraft: attitude indicator, heading indicator, altimeter, airspeed indicator, turn and bank indicator, vertical speed indicator, compass, navigation (GPS and VOR) and communication radios, tachometer, oil pressure gauge, and oil temperature gauge.
          g. Create an original poster of an aircraft instrument panel. Include and identify the instruments and radios discussed in requirement 2f.

   3. Do ONE of the following:

          a. Build and fly a fuel-driven or battery powered electric model airplane. Describe safety rules for building and flying model airplanes Tell safety rules for use of glue, paint, dope, plastics, fuel, and battery pack.
          b. Build a model FPG-9. Get others in your troop or patrol to make their own model, then organize a competition to test the precision of flight and landing of the models.

   4. Do ONE of the following:

          a. Visit an airport. After the visit, report on how the facilities are used, how runways are numbered, and how runways are determined to be "active."
          b. Visit a Federal Aviation Administration facility control tower, terminal radar control facility, air route traffic control center, flight service station, or Flight Standards District Office. (Phone directory listings are under U.S. Government Offices, Transportation Department, Federal Aviation Administration. Call in advance.) Report on the operation and your impressions of the facility.
          c. Visit an aviation museum or attend an air show. Report on your impressions of the museum or show.

   5. Find out about three career opportunities in aviation. Pick one and find out the education, training, and experience required for this profession. Discuss this with your counselor, and explain why this profession might interest you.

Most of which could be handled, I would imagine, as a part of an AE-external program, though I am sure they would like to find a way to get their kids in CAP planes.

Is this as simple as an approved CAPF 9 and someone buying the gas?

[lordmonar]

We can do anything we want to at this level of thing.

From a BSA perspective....anyone who has experience in the subject matter maybe a MB instructor.   They may have to register as an MB Counsolor...for free IIRC.

On the CAP side of thing...this would fall under external AE and does not require any coordination or permission.....so long as you are not doing any flying!

[cap235629]

We can do anything we want to at this level of thing.

From a BSA perspective....anyone who has experience in the subject matter maybe a MB instructor.   They may have to register as an MB Counsolor...for free IIRC.

On the CAP side of thing...this would fall under external AE and does not require any coordination or permission.....so long as you are not doing any flying!

Indeed it is free to become a merit badge counselor, you just fill out a form that allows a background check and send it in.

here is the BSA rule on flight:

Flying in hang gliders, ultralights, experimental class aircraft, or hot-air balloons (whether or not they are tethered); parachuting; and flying in aircraft as part of a search and rescue mission are unauthorized activities.

So the BSA will allow you to take a scout up with parental consent, but I believe CAP requires a waiver and the pilot be commercial rated, I am a ground pounder and could be wrong about the commercial ticket

[FW]

This is what CAPR 60-1 has to say about flying non-members:

(2) For corporate missions ("C" mission symbol), the request for approval should be forwarded through the responsible wing and region commanders to arrive at the CAP NHQ NOC no later than 5 workdays prior to the flight. The use of electronic mail is encouraged. Special requests will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.
l. All non-CAP members eligible to ride aboard CAP aircraft must execute a CAPF 9, Release (for non-CAP Members), prior to the flight. EXCEPTION: Military/Federal employees in the performance of their official duties are not required to execute a CAPF 9. The completed CAPF 9 will be left on the ground in a secure location. The Pilot in Command will notify a responsible CAP person of the location. After completion of the mission, the CAPF 9 will be filed with the mission documents.

[SJFedor]

What would probably be easier to do is try and run this in conjunction with an EAA Young Eagles flying day. Do all the ground presentation stuff you normally would, and send them up with some of the EAA volunteer pilots to do the flight.

[♠SARKID♠]

What would probably be easier to do is try and run this in conjunction with an EAA Young Eagles flying day. Do all the ground presentation stuff you normally would, and send them up with some of the EAA volunteer pilots to do the flight.

Agreed.  Back when I took my aviation MB thats what we did.  You'll probably be able to wrangle more EAA planes than CAP anyways.

[SJFedor]

mmhmm. Plus we don't have to worry about liability, getting permission from the NOC, and all that other excitement. Just have the parents sign the EAA release, and off they go!

Plus, the EAA has some really cool planes. I just went to a local EAA fly day/breakfast, they had a guy doing rides in a stearman. Man what i'd give....

[Tubacap]

Our local EAA just quite doing rides because of their insurance carrier boosted their costs.

[cap235629]

mmhmm. Plus we don't have to worry about liability, getting permission from the NOC, and all that other excitement. Just have the parents sign the EAA release, and off they go!

Plus, the EAA has some really cool planes. I just went to a local EAA fly day/breakfast, they had a guy doing rides in a stearman. Man what i'd give....

If the EAA plane is "experimental" the Scouts cannot fly in it, see my earlier post

[SJFedor]

mmhmm. Plus we don't have to worry about liability, getting permission from the NOC, and all that other excitement. Just have the parents sign the EAA release, and off they go!

Plus, the EAA has some really cool planes. I just went to a local EAA fly day/breakfast, they had a guy doing rides in a stearman. Man what i'd give....

If the EAA plane is "experimental" the Scouts cannot fly in it, see my earlier post

I've yet to see an aircraft classified as "Experimental" used in any of their flights, with the exception of an RV-6, and I'm not sure if that was or not.

[DNall]

280-2 is the controlling reg for AE, and it specifies as one of the tasks for external education conducting AE activities for external groups such as BSA & aviation explorer posts (roughly quoted).

So yes it is something you should be doing.

Per their MB requirements, they do NOT need to fly in the plane, though I'm sure they would like to & you MIGHT be able to arrange it w/ WG to NOC approval. I would be upfront with them that it requires national approval & might not happen, you'll work out the details with them & try to get it done, but no promises. Meanwhile go forward with an AE wknd that'll satisfy the reqs w/o the flight. And maybe hook them in w/ EAA young eagles to get a flight.

Use your cadets as assistants or even instructors under your supervision. Make sure they are visible. Don't make it a recruiting event, but don't be surprised if you pick up a handful of new members through this. Since you're going to the trouble, go ahead and invite several other area BSA troops to participate. Charge a couple bucks & cook some burgers. Arrange camping on the airfield if that's something that can be done at your location. Good time for your cadets to also camp out at the location & show off their highspeed GT gear/socialize - again you're going to pick up new cadets this way. Make sure you have a good PAO working the project, and make sure you document the event for AE report to Wg.

Sounds like a great deal. I might even try to set something like that up myself if I ever have any spare time.

[Eclipse]

^^^ this looks like the "plan" - maybe even something we could do as a regular part of the program as the Group level.

A quick note from our SD indicated they won't be getting into our airplanes anytime soon, and suggested EAA or local flight schools.

[DNall]

Fig that'd be the case. You might try to track with EAA on your end to set it up. Again though, the MB reqs only 2 of 7 possible items, flight being one of those. You can do ALL the others, as well as the other sections. Make an annual event out of it.

Six months later you can run a similar wknd focused on rocketry (which I assume there's a MB for also), which can be run as a joint event to get your cadets the badge. Again annual event, camp/socialize, make a couple bucks on food, good PR, good AE to Wg, pick up a couple new cadets each time, good for your cadets too.

Maybe track with some local teachers to involve classes also. We can fly teachers. Use your area resources to make the events cool/interesting (I say that cause I'm in Houston & we got lots of cool stuff, don't know what you have to work with).

Sounds like it'll work out real well. Please come back & update as it comes together & after the fact. I'd be real interested to see how successful it is.

[notaNCO forever]

The solution to this problem is to get them to join CAP.

[Eclipse]

The solution to this problem is to get them to join CAP. 

Certainly high on the list, but not all BSA members are CAP material.

There are other "chess game" advantages to a high community profile, including fund raising, ES tasking, general "who are those guys", etc.

[lordmonar]

The solution to this problem is to get them to join CAP. 

Certainly high on the list, but not all BSA members are CAP material.

Being both a CAP member and a BSA member (duel chartered) I find this statement highly insulting!

I wonder how much of your community you are locking out of a great youth program by being so selective in who exactly is CAP material?

[RiverAux]

He is factually correct in that since you can join the Boy Scouts at age 10 there are going to be quite a few who are not CAP material since they're too young to join us. 

[lordmonar]

He is factually correct in that since you can join the Boy Scouts at age 10 there are going to be quite a few who are not CAP material since they're too young to join us. 

I don't think that is what he was saying.  Your average basic scout is around 11....(10 years old and completed the 5th grade).  One year difference is not that big of a deal to make them not "CAP material".

[davidsinn]

The solution to this problem is to get them to join CAP. 

Certainly high on the list, but not all BSA members are CAP material.

Being an Eagle Scout myself I'd have to agree. I know far too many scouts that couldn't think themselves out of a wet paper bag with no bottom. That being said I think it's a good program and deserves our AE support.

[♠SARKID♠]

The solution to this problem is to get them to join CAP. 

Certainly high on the list, but not all BSA members are CAP material.

Being an Eagle Scout myself I'd have to agree. I know far too many scouts that couldn't think themselves out of a wet paper bag with no bottom. That being said I think it's a good program and deserves our AE support.

I'm in agreement with your agreement.  Recruit wisely