A compiled list: What would you like to see done for Civil Air Patrol uniforms?

Started by Hawk200, October 21, 2018, 01:52:30 PM

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Hawk200

The list started here: What would you like to see done for Civil Air Patrol uniforms?

I think I got everything, although I may have missed something. However, with no further ado, here it is:

1. Elimination of all USAF style uniforms for seniors.
2. Adoption of USAF uniform by cadets within two years of USAF change.
3. Allow ALL senior members the option of wearing the USAF style uniforms.
4. Authorize wear of OCP uniform upon phaseout of Woodland camouflage BDU.
5. Wear cloth rank insignia on the flight suit.
6. Cadet shoulder boards: Eliminate pointed tip and button, soft board design.
7. Authorize a CAP Military Service Award for wear on corporate uniforms, or in lieu of military awards/decorations on USAF uniforms. (Potentially, develop attachments for branch specific identifiers.)
8. Design an actual corporate service uniform.
9. Replace GTM badges with Ground Forces badge or expand to cover more than just SAR based ground teams.
10. Develop Incident staff badge.
11. Authorize the "Stonewall Utility Uniform." (Green TRU. Sorry, wasn't sure what to call it.)
12. Eliminate pocket badges for special tracks/qualifications. Develop breast badges similar to Air Force occupational badge designs to be worn above branch tape/ribbons.
13. Merge Professional Development Program and Aerospace Education Award Ribbons/Medals into a single award.
14. Authorize wear of miniature ribbons on service uniforms.
15.  Minimize number of patches on utility uniforms.
16. Allow wear of earned military awards on corporate uniforms, in the same manner as AF-style uniforms.
17. Eliminate the "minimum basic uniform" requirement, and allow members to obtain a uniform appropriate to their job functions.
18. Develop a field uniform with high visibility markings.
19. Allow the sage green flightsuit for all members. (Eliminate blue flightsuit.)
20. Allow wear of sage green flight jackets with blue flightsuits, eliminate blue flight jackets.
21. Design a single dress uniform for all members.
22. Design a formal headgear for wear with aviator uniforms.
23. For corporate uniforms that currently allow the Black Fleece, allow wear of commercially available black ECWCS parka with the same rank tabs allowed for ECWCS/APECS parkas.
24. Allow affixing name/branch tapes with Velcro.
25. Allow tan or Air Force green boots with ACU. Replace black boots.
26. Allow wear of any badges/insignia authorized on Air Force uniforms on Civil Air Patrol uniforms.

Added some things based on stuff from other threads, even if they weren't specifically mentioned here.

And, discuss.

etodd

Pass that list onto a uniform committee .... and 10 years later .....
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Hawk200

5.Plastic rank is not low maintenance. If there is an issue with using the same subdued flightsuit rank the Air Force uses, there's bright color on sage available.

8. CAP needs this. There probably could have been one if it hadn't been backdoored the way it was in the past. But, it was at least uniform.

9. Maybe create an ES badge, ditch the patch.

10. Incident Commander isn't the only ICS specialty there is. Wouldn't hurt to be able to identify people by looking at the uniform.

12. Thought of this before. Either eliminate pocket badges, or implement a system that places certain quals in strategic places on the uniform (yeah, make it standardized.) Maybe go with ES/ICS/SAR certifications on pockets, occupational concept badges worn above the tapes (or the pocket/ribbons on service uniforms.) Standardize that on all uniforms. If it's something that would only really be necessary to display on utilities, place it on the left sleeve. (Or maybe go with ES/ICS/SAR certifications on one particular pocket, put occupational type badges on the other, left breast would be categorized for something else. )

13. Would propose developing a new ribbon/award rather than re-designating any existing ones. Could create some confusion with different applications of the same ribbons.

15. Got a lot now, with no particular logic to how they're currently arranged.

19. I've been for this before, even proposing elimination of rank insignia on the flightsuits, it's already on the nameplate anyway. The sage bag could almost be considered universal these days, because of that they're pretty inexpensive.  Allowing everyone to wear it the same way would uniform.

20. If we can't get rid of the blue suit, then at least allow those wearing it the option of a cheaper, more readily available jacket. (I'd advocate allowing the the wear of the same insignia as well, for uniformity purposes.)

23. Black seems to be pretty readily available, and this would give those in corporate utilities the same option for protection from the weather that those in military variant uniforms have.

25. Yeah. May not end up wearing ABUs, but those black boots are hideous with it. Still wonder why the Air Force had to come up with a different color.

jb512

Tone down the brightness on the ABU NCO insignia and do not get rid of the AF uniforms.

Hawk200

Quote from: Hawk200 on October 21, 2018, 02:51:56 PM
5.Plastic rank is not low maintenance. If there is an issue with using the same subdued flightsuit rank the Air Force uses, there's bright color on sage available.

8. CAP needs this. There probably could have been one if it hadn't been backdoored the way it was in the past. But, it was at least uniform.

9. Maybe create an ES badge, ditch the patch.

10. Incident Commander isn't the only ICS specialty there is. Wouldn't hurt to be able to identify people by looking at the uniform.

12. Thought of this before. Either eliminate pocket badges, or implement a system that places certain quals in strategic places on the uniform (yeah, make it standardized.) Maybe go with ES/ICS/SAR certifications on pockets, occupational concept badges worn above the tapes (or the pocket/ribbons on service uniforms.) Standardize that on all uniforms. If it's something that would only really be necessary to display on utilities, place it on the left sleeve. (Or maybe go with ES/ICS/SAR certifications on one particular pocket, put occupational type badges on the other, sleeves would be categorized for something else. )

13. Would propose developing a new ribbon/award rather than re-designating any existing ones. Could create some confusion with different applications of the same ribbons.

15. Got a lot now, with no particular logic to how they're currently arranged.

19. I've been for this before, even proposing elimination of rank insignia on the flightsuits, it's already on the nameplate anyway. The sage bag could almost be considered universal these days, because of that they're pretty inexpensive.  Allowing everyone to wear it the same way would uniform.

20. If we can't get rid of the blue suit, then at least allow those wearing it the option of a cheaper, more readily available jacket. (I'd advocate allowing the the wear of the same insignia as well, for uniformity purposes.)

23. Black seems to be pretty readily available, and this would give those in corporate utilities the same option for protection from the weather that those in military variant uniforms have.

25. Yeah. May not end up wearing ABUs, but those black boots are hideous with it. Still wonder why the Air Force had to come up with a different color.

Not sure what I did there. It's early.

AlphaSigOU

Option to wear either leather or cloth name tag (to a standardized design) on the FDU/CFDU.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

CFToaster

Quote from: AlphaSigOU on October 22, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Option to wear either leather or cloth name tag (to a standardized design) on the FDU/CFDU.

Hear, Hear! I already own a perfectly usable blue flight jacket, but I can't wear it in uniform because I'm vegetarian and not about to buy a leather name tag.

PHall

Quote from: CFToaster on October 22, 2018, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on October 22, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Option to wear either leather or cloth name tag (to a standardized design) on the FDU/CFDU.

Hear, Hear! I already own a perfectly usable blue flight jacket, but I can't wear it in uniform because I'm vegetarian and not about to buy a leather name tag.

So get a Nagahyde one.

N6RVT

Quote from: AlphaSigOU on October 22, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Option to wear either leather or cloth name tag (to a standardized design) on the FDU/CFDU.

I can understand the issue with having this on the FDU but seriously on the CFDU it shouldn't be a problem.

ColonelJack

Quote from: PHall on October 22, 2018, 03:41:55 PM
Quote from: CFToaster on October 22, 2018, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on October 22, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Option to wear either leather or cloth name tag (to a standardized design) on the FDU/CFDU.

Hear, Hear! I already own a perfectly usable blue flight jacket, but I can't wear it in uniform because I'm vegetarian and not about to buy a leather name tag.

So get a Nagahyde one.

Do you know how many naugas have to die so a naugahide chair can exist?   ;)

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

Eclipse

Quote from: ColonelJack on October 22, 2018, 07:25:58 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 22, 2018, 03:41:55 PM
Quote from: CFToaster on October 22, 2018, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on October 22, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Option to wear either leather or cloth name tag (to a standardized design) on the FDU/CFDU.

Hear, Hear! I already own a perfectly usable blue flight jacket, but I can't wear it in uniform because I'm vegetarian and not about to buy a leather name tag.

So get a Nagahyde one.

Do you know how many naugas have to die so a naugahide chair can exist?   ;)

Jack

Also, why would you eat your nametag?

"That Others May Zoom"

PHall

Quote from: Eclipse on October 22, 2018, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: ColonelJack on October 22, 2018, 07:25:58 PM
Quote from: PHall on October 22, 2018, 03:41:55 PM
Quote from: CFToaster on October 22, 2018, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on October 22, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Option to wear either leather or cloth name tag (to a standardized design) on the FDU/CFDU.

Hear, Hear! I already own a perfectly usable blue flight jacket, but I can't wear it in uniform because I'm vegetarian and not about to buy a leather name tag.

So get a Nagahyde one.

Do you know how many naugas have to die so a naugahide chair can exist?   ;)

Jack

Also, why would you eat your nametag?

Survival ration!

Jester

Enlisted/NCO-specific uniform desires:

- re-authorize the enlisted cap device for service caps.  For flight caps, either authorize a similar device or have no device at all (aligned with AF practice)

- Authorize the embroidered goretex and fleece tabs that Vanguard put on their website in the last week or so.  Common sense said it's fine, but it's CAP and we have enough uniform stuff to bicker over as it is.

- Authorize semi-formal uniform for enlisted grades. 


Hawk200

Quote from: AlphaSigOU on October 22, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Option to wear either leather or cloth name tag (to a standardized design) on the FDU/CFDU.

I like it. Seems like I'm locked out from making further edits on my original post, or I'd add it.

Always wondered why we didn't. You could sew on a cloth nametag. If we could get cloth rank, you could sew on everything. Would be a lot easier to throw the bag in a washer without having to worry about leaving something on.

Hawk200

Quote from: CFToaster on October 22, 2018, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on October 22, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Option to wear either leather or cloth name tag (to a standardized design) on the FDU/CFDU.

Hear, Hear! I already own a perfectly usable blue flight jacket, but I can't wear it in uniform because I'm vegetarian and not about to buy a leather name tag.

I had a plastic nametag at one time. Don't know if I could find it again, or if National got to that particular vendor, too.

Hawk200

Quote from: Jester on October 22, 2018, 11:10:30 PM
Enlisted/NCO-specific uniform desires:

- re-authorize the enlisted cap device for service caps.  For flight caps, either authorize a similar device or have no device at all (aligned with AF practice)

I like that idea. I've actually got a few of the old enlisted cap devices for CAP enlisted. I think they'd be appropriate.

Quote from: Jester on October 22, 2018, 11:10:30 PM- Authorize the embroidered goretex and fleece tabs that Vanguard put on their website in the last week or so.  Common sense said it's fine, but it's CAP and we have enough uniform stuff to bicker over as it is.

I remember when Vanguard came out with a cloth sew on Commander's badge. At the time they produced it, it wasn't authorized for wear, but it is now. I'm wondering how much sway Vanguard actually has over our uniform development.

Quote from: Jester on October 22, 2018, 11:10:30 PM- Authorize semi-formal uniform for enlisted grades.

Makes sense.

hamburgee

Quote from: Hawk200 on October 23, 2018, 09:57:43 AMI remember when Vanguard came out with a cloth sew on Commander's badge. At the time they produced it, it wasn't authorized for wear, but it is now. I'm wondering how much sway Vanguard actually has over our uniform development.
I'm about 90% sure that Vanguard is the sole reason why National "decided" to keep patches on the ABU. Money for Vanguard = some amount of profit for them.

PHall

Quote from: hamburgee on October 23, 2018, 05:21:27 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on October 23, 2018, 09:57:43 AMI remember when Vanguard came out with a cloth sew on Commander's badge. At the time they produced it, it wasn't authorized for wear, but it is now. I'm wondering how much sway Vanguard actually has over our uniform development.
I'm about 90% sure that Vanguard is the sole reason why National "decided" to keep patches on the ABU. Money for Vanguard = some amount of profit for them.

That and the fact that if we "discontinue" a patch CAP has to buy the remaining stock from Vanguard.

N6RVT

Quote from: ColonelJack on October 22, 2018, 07:25:58 PM
Do you know how many naugas have to die so a naugahide chair can exist?   ;)
Jack

I can't count them because the Naugas hide.

supertigerCH

Okay this is definitely NOT an extremely important change.  Life would definitely go on as normal even if this wasn't implemented... but since we are throwing out all ideas (large and small)... here is one of those "subtle changes" that still probably has the ability to improve the overall look.

Instead of wearing the blue tie on the CAP aviator style uniform (same color the AF service blues wear)... have the aviator style uniform change to a grey colored tie (which is the same shade of grey as the pants that Vanguard sells for the aviator uniform).  That way the epaulets, pants, and tie are all grey... and all match.

As an example, the (active) Air Force blues uniform has a similar look... in which the epaulets, pants, and tie are all blue, and all match.  It's a sharp and professional look for the AF blues, and would also probably be so for CAP's corporate version as well.

Granted, the Civil Air Patrol "AF style" blues uniform doesn't follow this pattern (with the grey epaulets being different color from the blue pants and tie)... but most of us know how & why that happened.  Anyway, I think you all are probably starting to understand the overall idea & suggestion I am making here.

The current reasoning for wearing a blue tie on Air Force blues & also on CAP aviator uniform.. is probably trying to save money for members (buying only one tie).

However, most members wearing aviator uniform probably are restricted from wearing AF Blues anyway... and even if some people meet the standard to wear both... it is just a tie people.  Judging by the price listed on Vanguard, I think that's one item even the poorest of us can probably afford to buy 2 of.

Again... this isn't a really important uniform change compared to others... however it is a subtle change that makes sense, and just adds an extra bit of sharpness & professionalism to the uniform's look (which is probably why the AF Blues also do it that way).