Retired General Officers in CAP

[ZigZag911]

I just read the thread about Lt Gen Honore (commander of federal troops in Katrina relief effort) retiring.

One poster suggested recruiting him to CAP; another responded he'd have to drop to Lt Col from Lt Gen!

We're missing an important resource,  retired general officers & flag officers (Navy or Coast Guard), we have no facility to involve them even if they are interested.

It's a loss to CAP, because "Lt Gen Zilch" or "Rear Admiral Whatshisname" sounds a lot more impressive to state legislators, tv & radio producers, corporate contributors and the public at large than "captain, major, or lt col" do!

Why doesn't the NB establish a 'retired flag officers squadron' as part of the NHQ structure?

Permit (in fact, encourage) them to wear the equivalent of their active duty rank and use the appropriate AF title (general, lt gen, etc).

If they want to participate in local units or wings as advisors, instructors, pilots, aircrew, whatever -- terrific!  think of the photo ops, all you PAO types!

I don't foresee USAF objecting to retired flag officers retaingin their earned grade in CAP....actually, this might also be an answer to retired O-6s joining, too....if they want to be active members of local units, wing staff, etc, then they accept the bust to lt col.....if they simply want to support the program, have a membership unit for them at national also, and they wear their eagles....no one will confuse them with NB members, they won't have NB badge.

[lordmonar]

We already have retired general officers in CAP at the squadron level.....and they are just fine with being lowly Lt Cols.

If Lt Gen such and such sounds better....well lets just make all the wing CC's one stars, regional a two star position and National CC a 4 star.

Sounds good on paper....but your idea would just cause too much havoc with an already messed up rank system.

[flyguy06]

e have a hand full of one star Generals and even one or two two star. But when you get to the three and four star Generals, well, they are on a whol nother playng field. 3 and 4 GO's anre not on the same level as 1 and 2 star GO's

[LittleIronPilot]

We just promoted a SM to Lt Col after his paperwork came from HQ. He is a retired Navy O-6 and he has no problem with be a Lt Col.

If someone really wants to serve they will not care too much about the lowered rank. Though to be honest most will still call them General or whatever behind closed doors, just as a sign of respect.

[Gunner C]

I think the point might have been missed here:  These flag officers, such as Gen Honore, could be great assets at the national level (especially 3-4 button). 

They command HUGE amounts of respect in DC and their word carries weight.  Using them, if they're so inclined, as emmissaries to cabinate and sub-cabinate officers would give great weight to the CAP message.

They know how to brief, how to rub elbows with congress and governors, and could be great advisors to the national CC.  These guys grew up doing these things unlike CAP officers who don't get schooled at high levels for this type of duty. Not their fault, just the way the program is.

Just my gentle opinion.  :angel:

GC

[ZigZag911]

I understand there are O-6s & flag officers who want to be active in CAP and are fine with SM or Lt Col.

I'm talking here about a PAO type resource, almost an "honorary" membership category....and putting them in a NHQ level membership unit should avoid the rank confusion problem entirely -- they would not be in chain of command.

Hey, just an idea....even if we do it, I don't think we're suddenly going to have several dozen CAP lt generals running around!

[DNall]

There are indeed several retired GOs in CAP. I don't know that we've ever had an active member still on duty as a GO, but it wouldn't suprise me a whole lot (depending on how you define "active"). I understand that:

If someone really wants to serve they will not care too much about the lowered rank.

BUT, a lot of those guys do care. Being a general officer means getting your ego stroked, a lot. It's part of the gig.

I do believe we miss out of a lot of high quality folks that we might be able to capture IF we were willing to bring them in at grade. If you recall folks like Gen Fogleman that was a HUGE supporter of CAP when he was CoS. Someone like that could be a HUGE presence for CAP on the national level. I know that guy can walk into a congressional office unannounced & ask for time where folks on our end (paid consultants or otherwise) cannot. Hell, someone like that can call himself to solve most problems. You don't even need to involve an elected official for the most part.

What we have been doing is putting those golks on the BoG, which is nice, but I'd appreciate expanding that effort to something like has been discussed. And just in general (pardon the pun) I got no issue with them retaining their grade in CAP. I think that's highly appropriate. Our grade structure is all jacked up anyway. What's the difference between a LtCol working for a Capt or 1st Lt and a LtGen working for a Major?

[lordmonar]

I think the point might have been missed here:  These flag officers, such as Gen Honore, could be great assets at the national level (especially 3-4 button). 

They command HUGE amounts of respect in DC and their word carries weight.  Using them, if they're so inclined, as emmissaries to cabinate and sub-cabinate officers would give great weight to the CAP message.

They know how to brief, how to rub elbows with congress and governors, and could be great advisors to the national CC.  These guys grew up doing these things unlike CAP officers who don't get schooled at high levels for this type of duty. Not their fault, just the way the program is.

Just my gentle opinion.  :angel:

GC

Great ideal....let's get him on the BoG.

[SAR-EMT1]

I think the point might have been missed here:  These flag officers, such as Gen Honore, could be great assets at the national level (especially 3-4 button). 

They command HUGE amounts of respect in DC and their word carries weight.  Using them, if they're so inclined, as emmissaries to cabinate and sub-cabinate officers would give great weight to the CAP message.

They know how to brief, how to rub elbows with congress and governors, and could be great advisors to the national CC.  These guys grew up doing these things unlike CAP officers who don't get schooled at high levels for this type of duty. Not their fault, just the way the program is.

Just my gentle opinion.  :angel:

GC

Great ideal....let's get him on the BoG.

But how often is our CURRENT BoG used as a PAO or political resource?
I see where ZigZag is going with this.

That causes me to reiterate a question I asked previously in another thread:
How many "RM" Flag Officers are currently in CAP ?

[RiverAux]

Frankly, I don't see too many retired generals getting involved with CAP just to be public affairs spokesmen or by using their connections for CAP's benefit.  Most of them probably had little to no involvement with CAP while on active duty and probably wouldn't be all that good in promoting the program unless they spent some time down in the CAP trenches.  The number of retired generals is pretty darn low in the first place and as probably only a tiny percent would be interested in CAP I don't see any real benefit of going out of the way to change our ways for them. 

[SAR-EMT1]

Im sorry, I didnt mean to suggest that Generals should join for the sole reason of being a CAP mouthpiece. Nor do I mean to suggest that we should force them to.

[lordmonar]

I think the point might have been missed here:  These flag officers, such as Gen Honore, could be great assets at the national level (especially 3-4 button). 

They command HUGE amounts of respect in DC and their word carries weight.  Using them, if they're so inclined, as emmissaries to cabinate and sub-cabinate officers would give great weight to the CAP message.

They know how to brief, how to rub elbows with congress and governors, and could be great advisors to the national CC.  These guys grew up doing these things unlike CAP officers who don't get schooled at high levels for this type of duty. Not their fault, just the way the program is.

Just my gentle opinion.  :angel:

GC

Great ideal....let's get him on the BoG.

But how often is our CURRENT BoG used as a PAO or political resource?
I see where ZigZag is going with this.

That causes me to reiterate a question I asked previously in another thread:
How many "RM" Flag Officers are currently in CAP ?

There's one in the Nellis Senior Squadron.

[ZigZag911]

BoG is a very different role; good place to involve retired generals, but really there's only room for two there.

Again, I don't foresee a whole lot of RM retired generals getting involved in CAP as spokespersons or motivational speakers (wing conferences, NBs, Cadet Officer School, NSC, anyone?)....but even a handful could do us a world of good in Congress, the media, and even the corporate world.

And imagine if we ever got someone like Brig Gen Chuck Yeager, Gen Chuck Horner, or the late R. Adm Wally Schirra?

[DNall]

No one, including NHQ, can tell you how many retired general officers are in CAP, because no one keeps track of that. If I had to guess, I'd say maybe 20, but that's just tossing a number out there.

CAP is the best kept secret & all that... is there really anyone here that thinks we're so well off we couldn't benefit from having some of these folks as advocates, however limited or extensive that service may be?

We give advanced promotions to teachers, doctors, lawyers, CFIs, amateur radio folks, etc... none of those people know anything at all about CAP coming in, and for the most part they don't ever use their outside qualification for CAP. We have a congressional & several legislative Sqs that give advanced grade & they exist solely to make advocates in those spheres. If anything, a general officer is more deserving & potentially more helpful to us than any of those others.

And finally, who here thinks they or CAP is good enough to tell them they don't deserve the grade they earned. You want to tell me how CAP is a different thing? Okay, on one hand it is, but on another level it is all about dealing with & relating to the military & federal govt. Who is more qualified than a congressionally confirmed general officer to do that? Who here is so proud of their grade or thinks it's so meaningful that a general officer doesn't deserve his?

So what's the problem? All military personnel need to be brought over in their full grade.  And, we do need to establish an advocacy Sq, similiar to a legislative Sq & attached to BoG, where folks like that can be attached. If they want to serve locally then by all means. If they don't want to serve as an advocate or command advisor, then that's fine too. But, we shouldn't be discouraging things that can help us, especially not when we're being so liveral with grade in other areas.

[freeflight]

The Utah Wing has a Brigadier General in its wing staff.  Brigadier General (Ret) Stuart Boyd (USAF), Lt Col, CAP.

[FW]

Even though the highest grade a non-corporate officer in CAP can receive is "Lt Col.", we allow AD/Ret general officers to wear their grade on the Blazer uniform.  When Lt Gen/ret. Charlie Searock (former commander of AF Logistics Command), former NJWG/LG and current member of the BoG is in CAP uniform, it usually is the Blazer combo with 3 stars on the nameplate.  
Before that, he was very satisfied to be known as SM Searock.

[ZigZag911]

My understanding (and this came from highly placed sources in NJW) was that Lt Gen Searock was definitely not amused by the notion of being a lt col again, and chose instead to remain a SMWG. He was making a point, not acquiescing to the situation.

I recall an NJW banquet five or six years ago at which gen. Searock was the guest speaker.....if I recall correctly, he wore his AF uniform and had his 3 star flag displayed!

[DNall]

...we allow AD/Ret general officers to wear their grade on the Blazer uniform...

That's absolutely not authorized. He might as well get some gray CAP LtGen slides made up & go back to wearing blues.

We had a LtGen here some years ago that was very unhappy about being a LtCol again. It was insisted upon for him to recieve an award at a Wg conf at one point. He wore USAF blues all day. Came into the awards w/ CAP stuff on his blues shirt. Took his award, then walked out of the room, came back a couple minutes later w/ AF service coat on top.

[FW]

Sorry D, the NEC allowed this practice about 2 years ago.  As far as I know, BG (ret)Jaeger and Lt Gen(ret) Searock both have stars on their (black) name plate. 

[DNall]

really? I've seen nothing in regs/chg ltrs to reflect that (I'd appreciate a cite if you have one). My position would be that it's highly inappropriate. It's either their CAP grade or it's not. It's being worn on an offical CAP uniform with obvious implications.