USAF PME Ribbon

[GroundHawg]

Please forgive me if this has been covered before and I missed it. The USAF NCO PME Graduate Ribbon has been awarded for the NCO Preparatory Course, Airman Leadership School, NCO Leadership School, NCO Academy, and SNCO Academy for distance learning for around 10 years now (before it had to be in-residence).

Do CAP NCO's that take these courses qualify? If so, how are they awarded? Memo? or just course completion cert?

[Shuman 14]

USAF NCO Graduate Ribbon

ADDITIONAL ELIGIBILITY CLARIFICATION

The NCOPME Graduate Ribbon was established and awarded to in-residence graduates of a certified NCO PME school. Prior to July 31, 2014, only in-residence PME completion qualified for award of the NCOPMER, however after that date, "in-residence" and "distance learning" courses qualify for award of the ribbon.

No mention of CAP NCOs, or Sister Service NCOs, that complete the training being awarded the Ribbon... but it doesn't say they don't either.

[Stonewall]

Example scenario: if a Marine attends Airman Leadership School, they earn the Air Force PME ribbon. I say that with experience because I worked with a Marine at the Pentagon who did exactly that.

How did that Marine get the ribbon in his file to wear? He provided his graduation documents and showed the AFI that authorized the ribbon and I'll assume they added it to his PIF.

For CAP, how does that happen since we don't have a mechanism to enter such an award? I'd say wear it and show the AFI that states the ribbon is awarded for graduating PME and your certificate, and boom, you're good. Not like you have to carry it around with you since eServices shows military equivalency (right?).

As a sitting CAP wing commander and active CMSgt, I wouldn't have an issue with this from either side. But there are people who lose sleep over things like this. I am not one of those people.

[Eclipse]

If you earn it as a servicemember, you can wear it.

If you took the course as a CAP member and do not get credit for it as a servicemember you don't get it.

[Stonewall]

If you earn it as a servicemember, you can wear it.

If you took the course as a CAP member and do not get credit for it as a servicemember you don't get it.

Then I guess CAP members shouldn't wear the Air and Space Organizational Excellence Award (ASOEA)?

[Shuman 14]

If you earn it as a servicemember, you can wear it.

If you took the course as a CAP member and do not get credit for it as a servicemember you don't get it.

Please cite the USAF or CAP Instruction and/or Regulation that states that. 

[arajca]

If you earn it as a servicemember, you can wear it.

If you took the course as a CAP member and do not get credit for it as a servicemember you don't get it.

Then I guess CAP members shouldn't wear the Air and Space Organizational Excellence Award (ASOEA)?

That one has a special authorization in the awarding documents. However, not all CAP members who served during that time frame can wear it.

[FlyingPig]

If you earn it as a servicemember, you can wear it.

If you took the course as a CAP member and do not get credit for it as a servicemember you don't get it.

Please cite the USAF or CAP Instruction and/or Regulation that states that. 

You're looking for a cite that specifically says you can't wear the NCO PME medal?  I think you'd be looking for a cite that says CAP members can. With military decorations you'd be looking for a reg that specifically says you can wear it as a CAP member who didn't attend while in the military.  I get Stonewall doesn't have an issue with it.  I've done AF ALS and NCOA, plus USMC NCO School and PLDC in the Army and I don't think Id have any heartache over it either, but I don't think the lack of a cite preventing it implies you can. 

[FlyingPig]

If you earn it as a servicemember, you can wear it.

If you took the course as a CAP member and do not get credit for it as a servicemember you don't get it.

Then I guess CAP members shouldn't wear the Air and Space Organizational Excellence Award (ASOEA)?

But wasnt there an order specifically allowing it? With the PME ribbon, theres nothing that allows a CAP member to wear it.   I wouldnt have an issue with it for someone who completed them.  Just curious.

[HandsomeWalt_USMC]

It's a PME ribbon, not a valor award. Is it really worth getting worked up in internet argument over?

I associate myself with Stonewall. You rate it per the AFI, so wear it. Or don't. I'm not going to stress about something this small.

[FlyingPig]

Was there someone stressing and arguing about it?  Its a discussion forum.  Thats what we do, discuss.  If someone got out of line over it, thats a different discussion. 

That being said, Im not concerned about it.  I think its one of those things where it really does just say you rate it if you completed the courses.   If a CAP member is wearing it and someone asked, I think you'd be hard pressed to tell them to take it off.  Frankly, a CAP member doing it takes more time and effort than when I did it.  I was being paid when I did all 4 of my NCO courses vs someone taking their own time to do them. 
 

[Stonewall]

This is such low hanging fruit it would likely never reach my radar, and if it did, I'd genuinely be appreciative of a volunteer member taking the time to accomplish the distance learning PME course. There are paid airmen in the Air National  Guard who we can't get to take the course.

For some CAP NCOs, they wouldn't be authorized to wear the ribbon on their corporate uniform anyway. For others who do, will it impact anyone or anything? It wouldn't even indicate that they're wearing something they hadn't earned, like a Stolen Valor situation.

Today, as of this very moment, I'd rather we put the energy into getting members to put nametapes and rank on their sage green fleece jackets thousands of CAP members are wearing today for Wreaths Across America.

[SierraOneThree]

There is currently a debate as to whether the distance PME format qualifies for even certain service members to wear it. The 2806 specifically lists Distance Learning options as the exception to being awarded the PME ribbon, but then immediately lists an exception to the exception in the same paragraph. The 2670 does not specify a difference between distance learning and by correspondence, but this is likely because the awards reg predates the current force development reg.

I have a support ticket in with myFSS right now asking for clarification for a Guardsman who has been told by his FSS that he is not eligible to wear the ribbon because he completed ALS through the ASU portal, but I firmly disagree with that read of the regulation. I'll find out in a month or so.

That said, no, I wouldn't wear it without CAP-USAF specifically clarifying. It's a weird ribbon since you can technically only get it if you were previously/are currently enlisted, but...might be worth sending the question up your chain formally.

[SierraOneThree]

lol update, apparently service members do get the ribbon if they do it through the ASU portal. That's from a SNCO at the NGB level.

Still probably need clarification from CAP-USAF for folks who do it through CAP. Like I said, it's a weird one.

[FlyingPig]

They do.  Thats how I got my AF PME ribbon and cluster.  All through distance within the last 3 years.  My USMC and Army were all in residence. 

In the end like Stonewall said, wear it if youre a CAP NCO who took the time to take the course.  I did mine all online, so Im not about to tell any "well, when I went through....." shaming stories

[PHall]

Prior to 31 July 2014 only PME you did in residence counted for the ribbon.
After 1 Aug 2014 both in residence and correspondence courses count.
Per the AFPC link in the second post of this thread.

[SierraOneThree]

Prior to 31 July 2014 only PME you did in residence counted for the ribbon.
After 1 Aug 2014 both in residence and correspondence courses count.
Per the AFPC link in the second post of this thread.

Yes, this was my position. There are apparently personnelists in the Guard who adamantly believe otherwise, hence why I asked upwards for clarification from someone with actual weight. Their argument was that the force development structure changed recently, and that "correspondence courses" and "distance learning" were two separate things and only one counted, but the one that counted was no longer in use.

It was a silly argument, but an argument nonetheless.

[Shuman 14]

You're looking for a cite that specifically says you can't wear the NCO PME medal?  I think you'd be looking for a cite that says CAP members can. With military decorations you'd be looking for a reg that specifically says you can wear it as a CAP member who didn't attend while in the military.  I get Stonewall doesn't have an issue with it.  I've done AF ALS and NCOA, plus USMC NCO School and PLDC in the Army and I don't think Id have any heartache over it either, but I don't think the lack of a cite preventing it implies you can.

There's an old Military adage, "It's easier to ask forgiveness than ask permission." 

That being said, nearly every training course I have ever completed, be it in residence, via correspondence course, or some electronic distance learning format, provided me a certificate, either hard copy or electronic, that had my name on it and the majority also had my title on it.

So, if Staff Sergeant Snuffy Jones, be that Staff Sergeant of the USAF/USSF, US Army, USMC or CAP, has a certificate of graduation for ALS with their name, Rank and possibly an identification number (i.e. DODID, CAPID, etc.) on it... they have ALL the documentation they need to wear the award in my mind, until someone shows me the documentation that states otherwise.

I'd go so far to say, if one of my soldiers came in with such documentation I'd instruct my S-1 NCO to have the Certificated uploaded into i-PERMS and entered into IPPS-A and on their ERB. Earned is earned.

[SARDOC]

I think there is discussion to be had here.   The regulations specifically state for Badges, that the badges mus tbe for "service performed in any branch of the armed forces of the United States or its allies."  The PME ribbon however isn't a badge, it's an award.

11.2.2. US Awards. Federal awards awarded by the competent authority may be worn on USAF style uniforms in accordance with instructions contained in AFI 36-2903. National Guard awards will not be worn. 

There doesn't appear to have the "service performed in any branch of the armed forces of the United States or its allies" Condition. 

Is this an omission or was this intentional?

So, if as a member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, a member earns a Coast Guard Achievement Medal (it does happen)  This would meet the letter of the regulation in that it was awarded by a competent authority and is eligible to be worn per the AFI. 

Not sure if that's the spirit of the regulation, but is consistent with the letter.

[Stonewall]

There were days, as late as the mid-90s) when CAP members, including cadets (specifically, cadets) would qualify on the M16 and/or M9 with Air Force CATM instructors and be presented the Air Fire Small Arms Marksmanship Ribbon. In fact, I know a sitting wing commander who still wears his.

As an aside, the Air National Guard wing that is supported by out CAP Wing's chaplain plans to present an Air Force Achievment (or Commendation) Medal to him for his several years of service.

There is no mechanism in myDecs to accomplish this, but when the ANG Wing Commander presents him with a certificate and pins the Air Force medal on his uniform, what do we do? Tell him to remove it? Allow him to wear it?  Both are good questions.

As his CAP Wing Commander, I won't hesitate to let him wear it.

[FlyingPig]

There is a Deputy Sheriff in Florida who attended the full in-residence USAF ALS at McDill and also graduated as honor grad. He was never in the military.  I am told he wears the AF PME ribbon on his Deputy Sheriff Class As. Granted, hes not wearing that ribbon in a military style uniform, and the sheriff can allow him to wear anything the Sheriff wants to approve.   The side bar discussion to that, is why the heck as a Deputy would you want to spend that many weeks in ALS?     

[SierraOneThree]

There were days, as late as the mid-90s) when CAP members, including cadets (specifically, cadets) would qualify on the M16 and/or M9 with Air Force CATM instructors and be presented the Air Fire Small Arms Marksmanship Ribbon. In fact, I know a sitting wing commander who still wears his.

As an aside, the Air National Guard wing that is supported by out CAP Wing's chaplain plans to present an Air Force Achievment (or Commendation) Medal to him for his several years of service.

I know there's at least one senior member on the last year who was put in by an AF Col for an Aerial Achievement medal for his support with one of the AF support missions. I don't know if it was approved, but per the DAFMAN, the Col was well within his rights to do so and was the approving authority for the medal anyway. There are certain medals that civilians are eligible for, and I suppose there's a bit of a grey area with us now being "Total Force" that gives folks some wiggle room.

[Slim]

So, if as a member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, a member earns a Coast Guard Achievement Medal (it does happen)  This would meet the letter of the regulation in that it was awarded by a competent authority and is eligible to be worn per the AFI. 

Not sure if that's the spirit of the regulation, but is consistent with the letter.

When I was a member of the USCGAux many years ago, I earned two CG unit commendation awards (given to all members for the 60th anniversary of the USCG Aux, and for Operation Noble Eagle right after 9/11) and the CG Special Operations award (presented on orders signed by the captain (O-6) in command of Group Detroit).  I copied the documentation and put them in my file, and added the ribbons to my rack.

Most people I encountered, especially the prior service and prior CG members simply said "Cool" when I told them why I was wearing them.  But the people who raised the biggest stink about it were non prior service, and didn't hesitate to throw that "You weren't a member of the armed forces so you can't wear them."  And it came up constantly, there were even accusations of stolen valor made.  No amount of showing the awarding documentation would silence it.  So, I just decided that it wasn't worth it in the end and took them off.

[Shuman 14]

Slim,

I hear you brother. I'm still in so I have all my USCGAux and CAP Federal Decorations uploaded into i-PERMS and added to my ORB and IPPS-A, so when I retire they will be on my final DD-214.

I wear them now on my Army Uniform, I sometimes get questions, but since they're all in the official systems, the issue is mote.

I wish there was an official CAP system to add Federal Awards so these issues would go away here as well.

[SARDOC]

Yeah.  The CGAUX is a unique organization in that they have their own auxiliary awards like we do, but they are sometimes also awarded the Active Duty/Military version of the award... which I agree is acceptable as a "Federal Award"

DoD Civilians will get awarded them at times.  To me it's doesn't diminish the award.  I think it says to the non traditional members how much we value your service.  For example, when the Army awarded CAP members with the Air Medal.

[SierraOneThree]

There were days, as late as the mid-90s) when CAP members, including cadets (specifically, cadets) would qualify on the M16 and/or M9 with Air Force CATM instructors and be presented the Air Fire Small Arms Marksmanship Ribbon. In fact, I know a sitting wing commander who still wears his.

As an aside, the Air National Guard wing that is supported by out CAP Wing's chaplain plans to present an Air Force Achievment (or Commendation) Medal to him for his several years of service.

There is no mechanism in myDecs to accomplish this, but when the ANG Wing Commander presents him with a certificate and pins the Air Force medal on his uniform, what do we do? Tell him to remove it? Allow him to wear it?  Both are good questions.

As his CAP Wing Commander, I won't hesitate to let him wear it.

Oh, coming back to this-

Regarding the chappie's award, myDecs doesn't have to have anything input for the award to be valid. Once the appropriate ranking officer signs the "paper" form off, the award is valid. All you need is a signed copy of the award form, no dealing with the, erm, joys of myFSS and myPers.

Additionally, someone I know just submitted a DAF847 up their CAP chain to try to get CAP members authorized for orientation CATM training a la ROTC/USAFA cadets in the 2654. Hopefully it'll get the approvals it needs and make it over to CAP-USAF. Perhaps if some lovely wing commanders are around to provide additional useful insight that could be helpful....

[Stonewall]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if CAP stopped allowing members to wear military ribbons and badges. If nothing else, it would mitigate the number of bogus things I've seen people wear on their uniforms over the years. From SEAL tridents to valor medals that weren't earned.

That said, I'm good with it either way.

[FlyingPig]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if CAP stopped allowing members to wear military ribbons and badges. If nothing else, it would mitigate the number of bogus things I've seen people wear on their uniforms over the years. From SEAL tridents to valor medals that weren't earned.

That said, I'm good with it either way.

If be all for it.  Nothing irks me more than a high level CAP leader who wears all mil ribbons on their CAP uniform and not a single CAP dec.

[SARDOC]

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if CAP stopped allowing members to wear military ribbons and badges. If nothing else, it would mitigate the number of bogus things I've seen people wear on their uniforms over the years. From SEAL tridents to valor medals that weren't earned.

That said, I'm good with it either way.

The Rationale fails me.  You'd rather CAP not recognize those who've served and display earned awards, because of a hand full of people who violate the rules, instead of just holding those members accountable?  Keeping in mind that there are actual military service members who do the same thing.

I don't have a dog in this fight, as I'm already not able to wear my military awards because I've been relegated to the corporate uniform.   

[Stonewall]

The Rationale fails me.  You'd rather CAP not recognize those who've served and display earned awards, because of a hand full of people who violate the rules, instead of just holding those members accountable?  Keeping in mind that there are actual military service members who do the same thing.

I don't have a dog in this fight, as I'm already not able to wear my military awards because I've been relegated to the corporate uniform.   

It's just an opinion, not an action I'd take to remove the option.

A couple of things that I don't care for include someone wearing 45 ribbons on their CAP uniform because they were also in the military. I think it looks ridiculous and borderlines narcissism. Can there be a middle ground? Sure. 

Again, just my opinion, but wearing a rack of 20 CAP ribbons topped off with the NDSM and a BMT ribbon also looks kind of silly, especially for an older CAP Lt Col. I see why a 21 year old Senior Member wears it, they want some instant credibility. I see it, and I understand it, I just don't agree with it.

When it comes to combining military and CAP awards, I think a good balance is taking advantage of the "some" option. Short stack your top military and CAP awards, maybe six total. I think that looks decent.

Ironically, with all that said above, I just got my wife a dual UltraThin CAP/AF rack for her CAP blues. She's a CAP SMSgt and caps out at 24 ribbons combined, which doesn't look too bad. She also only wears her CAP service dress like once a year at most.

Again, just an opinion.

[FlyingPig]

I think at some point I'm going to wear my CAP ribbon rack with only my USAF PME ribbon with cluster perched on top for all the world to see.

[PHall]

The only military ribbons I wear on a CAP uniform are my individual decorations, i.e. Meritorious Service Medal, AF Commendation Medal and AF Achievement Medal and then only on my mess dress.

[Fubar]

The Rationale fails me.  You'd rather CAP not recognize those who've served and display earned awards, because of a hand full of people who violate the rules, instead of just holding those members accountable?  Keeping in mind that there are actual military service members who do the same thing.

I'd rather CAP focused on CAP and left it at that. It's not CAP's purpose to recognize anyone for anything they do outside of CAP. It would reduce drama, produce fewer banana republic generals, and remove a least a sentence or two from the uniform manual.

It's also the last issue on a long list of issues that CAP should worry about.

[Shawn Stanford]

I've long held the opinion that CAP uniforms should only allow CAP awards. My CAP service is a thing unique and separate from my military service. I don't wear any of my military service awards on my CAP uniforms (with the exception of wearing my CAB on the ABUs just to be That Guy).

Or, CAP awards should have precedence over equivalent awards from other services. That's how literally every service does it. So a CAP MSM would be worn above a Federal MSM in the rack.

[Paul Creed III]

I've long held the opinion that CAP uniforms should only allow CAP awards. My CAP service is a thing unique and separate from my military service. I don't wear any of my military service awards on my CAP uniforms (with the exception of wearing my CAB on the ABUs just to be That Guy).

Or, CAP awards should have precedence over equivalent awards from other services. That's how literally every service does it. So a CAP MSM would be worn above a Federal MSM in the rack.

I wish we could wear two CAP aviation badges too. For those of us who earned two, it would be nice to wear both but, sadly, no.

[SierraOneThree]

I wish we could wear two CAP aviation badges too. For those of us who earned two, it would be nice to wear both but, sadly, no.

"But they look too similar!"

*looks at CSO and officer aircrew badges*

[TheSkyHornet]

I've long held the opinion that CAP uniforms should only allow CAP awards. My CAP service is a thing unique and separate from my military service. I don't wear any of my military service awards on my CAP uniforms (with the exception of wearing my CAB on the ABUs just to be That Guy).

Or, CAP awards should have precedence over equivalent awards from other services. That's how literally every service does it. So a CAP MSM would be worn above a Federal MSM in the rack.

I totally agree, Shawn.

CAP is a non-profit corporate, not a branch of the Armed Forces. I just don't see a need to represent DoD or DHS service on a corporation's uniform, military-style or not.

We also have a population of individuals who get very star-struck over those with a military background. I see senior members who pull out military service challenge coins like it means something of great relevance at a CAP squadron cadet meeting.

[SierraOneThree]

I totally agree, Shawn.

CAP is a non-profit corporate, not a branch of the Armed Forces. I just don't see a need to represent DoD or DHS service on a corporation's uniform, military-style or not.

We also have a population of individuals who get very star-struck over those with a military background. I see senior members who pull out military service challenge coins like it means something of great relevance at a CAP squadron cadet meeting.

Yeah, very strange considering the extremely limited relationship and cultural history CAP has with the military.

[TheSkyHornet]

I totally agree, Shawn.

CAP is a non-profit corporate, not a branch of the Armed Forces. I just don't see a need to represent DoD or DHS service on a corporation's uniform, military-style or not.

We also have a population of individuals who get very star-struck over those with a military background. I see senior members who pull out military service challenge coins like it means something of great relevance at a CAP squadron cadet meeting.

Yeah, very strange considering the extremely limited relationship and cultural history CAP has with the military.

Let's not get into the Aux On/Aux Off battle here. Most members in CAP have no affiliation with the "Air Force side of the house." Many of our prior service members don't support the Auxiliary mission.

This isn't a "do you support the military" topic. What does being in the U.S. Navy have to do with being in CAP aside from the experience you might bring to the table? Our "officers" don't exactly hold a commission...

[SierraOneThree]

Let's not get into the Aux On/Aux Off battle here. Most members in CAP have no affiliation with the "Air Force side of the house." Many of our prior service members don't support the Auxiliary mission.

This isn't a "do you support the military" topic. What does being in the U.S. Navy have to do with being in CAP aside from the experience you might bring to the table? Our "officers" don't exactly hold a commission...

I never even mentioned our aux status, nor anything about supporting the military.

I could easily mention the vast majority of our corporate funding (which logically dictates a lot of our policies), our fleet funding, the....uniforms that all cadets wear as a matter of requirement. Our corporate/organizational structure.

The Air Force gives us money, and controls a third of our governing corporate body. And to be quite blunt, the military culture provides a source of inspiration for a huge number of cadets moreso than a lot of what kids get in their normal lives on a daily basis.

Honestly, if you remove the military-like portions of our organization, you'll completely erase the cadet program, and therefore you'll erase at least half the reason the Air Force gives us money in the first place.

So in conclusion, who cares? The military aspects of CAP aren't going anywhere anytime soon. And I'd wager your perspective is in the severe minority anyway.

[Fubar]

The Air Force gives us money, and controls a third of our governing corporate body. And to be quite blunt, the military culture provides a source of inspiration for a huge number of cadets moreso than a lot of what kids get in their normal lives on a daily basis.

Col Lee would be a better source on this given his prior experience on the BOG, but if I understand what was explained to me, the Air Force doesn't "give" us any funding. Congress essentially writes the Air Force a huge check and then CAP lobbies congress to carve out some of that funding for CAP, Inc. I think we're around 70 million dollars now. So essentially the Air Force asks for a huge budget, congress gives them a certain amount, and then adds on a stipulation that you have to pass along some of it to CAP. The Air Force then has to decide what it's not going to spend 70 million dollars on because they've been ordered to give it to CAP. Sometimes the Air Force pushes back on that a bit, other times we've made the right people at the higher levels of the Air Force happy and it's not a big issue.

I should add that some parts of the Air Force does give CAP money out of their budgets, but it's small (but appreciated!) compared to the overall appropriation. That money is sometimes "left over" spend it or lose it money that the Air Force has to spend and CAP has used to buy vehicles (perhaps more than that, I only heard about vehicles). The Air Force also contributes to the Cadet Wings program, although all the PR suggests the Ray Foundation is covering a big chunk of that.

But we're not a line item on the Air Force's budget that they plan for or generously provide CAP. They don't "give" us money because we're a partner or due to being added to the Total Force doctrine. They are essentially a pass-through for congress to give CAP money. Plus they get ordered to monitor how we spend that money, but don't appropriately fund that oversight portion of the Air Force (ask anyone in CAP-USAF if they have enough people or money) because they want to use that money and personnel for putting warheads on foreheads.

Honestly, if you remove the military-like portions of our organization, you'll completely erase the cadet program, and therefore you'll erase at least half the reason the Air Force gives us money in the first place.

I don't think the 2023 report has come out yet, but for 2022 numbers, it looks like CAP spent 11.8 million dollars on the cadet program (about $370 per cadet). CAP spent about 46.3 million dollars on everything else.

So it's not money that the Air Force "gives us" and it's nowhere near half the expenditures CAP has. Plus they bill a lot of stuff against Cadet Programs that I'd love to get more information on. Such as $92,000 billed as "telephone" to Cadet Programs.

So what's my point? If we remove the "military-like" portions of our organization, we won't lose most of our budget. But I agree, we'd lose most of the cadets, probably to JROTC, which does not appear to be as robust of a program. Fortunately we can continue to be "military-like" while remaining the autonomous, volunteer organization we've been since congress incorporated us.

[Shuman 14]

To bring this thread back on track, it would be nice if someone at CAP National Leadership would seek clarification from the Air Force to confirm, or deny, that if a CAP NCO completes a USAF PME Course, they are eligible to be awarded the USAF/USSF PME Ribbon and if it will be given a different Order of Precedence, similar to the ASOEA, when worn by a CAP awardee.

[baronet68]

To bring this thread back on track, it would be nice if someone at CAP National Leadership would seek clarification from the Air Force to confirm, or deny, that if a CAP NCO completes a USAF PME Course, they are eligible to be awarded the USAF/USSF PME Ribbon and if it will be given a different Order of Precedence, similar to the ASOEA, when worn by a CAP awardee.

There are currently 448 NCOs in CAP.  They represent 0.6% of the total membership, 1% of all senior members, and 1.9% of senior members with grade. 

It might simply be that "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" because this situation applies to so very few people.  Those CAP NCOs who do complete the PME courses could literally be less than 1 in 10,000 CAP members. 

[Stonewall]

To bring this thread back on track, it would be nice if someone at CAP National Leadership would seek clarification from the Air Force to confirm, or deny, that if a CAP NCO completes a USAF PME Course, they are eligible to be awarded the USAF/USSF PME Ribbon and if it will be given a different Order of Precedence, similar to the ASOEA, when worn by a CAP awardee.

There are currently 448 NCOs in CAP.  They represent 0.6% of the total membership, 1% of all senior members, and 1.9% of senior members with grade. 

It might simply be that "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" because this situation applies to so very few people.  Those CAP NCOs who do complete the PME courses could literally be less than 1 in 10,000 CAP members. 

Additionally, of the current NCOs in CAP, how many serve/served in the Air Force and already earned the PME ribbon.

As example, my wife is a SMSgt (in the AF and CAP). She has the PME ribbon with a two oak leaf cluster. So she's not someone who would be impacted by this.

[Shuman 14]

Baronet and Stonewall, you both make very valid points.

I thought there had been discussion about opening up the NCO ranks to non-prior Service CAP members and/or opening up CAP NCO ranks to prior Service Enlisted personnel in CAP.

In those cases, there would be a limited expansion of CAP NCO grades and having clarification on wear/award of the PME Ribbon would be helpful.

[PHall]

Baronet and Stonewall, you both make very valid points.

I thought there had been discussion about opening up the NCO ranks to non-prior Service CAP members and/or opening up CAP NCO ranks to prior Service Enlisted personnel in CAP.

In those cases, there would be a limited expansion of CAP NCO grades and having clarification on wear/award of the PME Ribbon would be helpful.

The non-prior service NCO's never happened.

[SierraOneThree]

The non-prior service NCO's never happened.

Yeah, it's still being thrown around.

[PHall]

The non-prior service NCO's never happened.

Yeah, it's still being thrown around.

For about four years. Stick a fork in it, it's done.