Your Shipment of Vanguard Fail has been delayed...

[DakRadz]

I ordered uniform stuff for the NER conference a month ago.  The conference ended today.  I'm still waiting for my order!

If it's going to take 2 weeks to get your order, simply order 3-4 weeks earlier than you need it!

So what does he do? He DID order a month/4 weeks in advance....

[caphornbuckle]

I ordered uniform stuff for the NER conference a month ago.  The conference ended today.  I'm still waiting for my order!

If it's going to take 2 weeks to get your order, simply order 3-4 weeks earlier than you need it!

So what does he do? He DID order a month/4 weeks in advance....

Seems like there's a unique situation on this one considering this is the only problem that's been brought up.  However, it doesn't seem like it's happening very often.  I'm sure you have forgot to pay a bill or lost something as well.  We're all human and make mistakes.  It happens.  Besides, we were assured that these types of issues would be looked into and resolved.  I'd wait to see what happens now.  The voices have been heard on here (GO CAPTALK!)...let's give them a chance to fix it now!

[Thrashed]

I ordered uniform stuff for the NER conference a month ago.  The conference ended today.  I'm still waiting for my order!

Good lord.  Did you order anything out of the ordinary, like custom embroidered or engraved items?  Or was this just standard insignia?  A month is beyond bad logistics, unless some of your items were out of stock and needed another batch to be made or something.   


Did Vanguard give you any clue as to what's holding up the order?

z


Just a name tag. Everything else was normal stuff.

[Thrashed]

I just got notice that it shipped.  How's that for timing? No rush now.  :clap:

[PHall]

Because of said issues, I have resorted to making paper name tapes and patches of exacting size and shape to have to accomplish the mission.

So you're saying that you can not get name tapes and patches from Vanguard?
Or are you saying that you can get them, just not as fast as you would like?

You are aware that you can order name tapes from AAFES, right? They do offer white on blue CAP name tapes.

[Major Carrales]

Because of said issues, I have resorted to making paper name tapes and patches of exacting size and shape to have to accomplish the mission.

So you're saying that you can not get name tapes and patches from Vanguard?
Or are you saying that you can get them, just not as fast as you would like?

You are aware that you can order name tapes from AAFES, right? They do offer white on blue CAP name tapes.

Try Wing Patches...

[Eclipse]

Try Wing Patches...

Considering that they are no longer required...

[Major Carrales]

Try Wing Patches...

Considering that they are no longer required...

They are in Texas...do your research.

[Ned]

Does Vanguard hold agreements with other organizations or companies as well or are they exclusive to CAP?  I do see that they have other items not related to CAP on their website as well.

Vanguard is one  of the largest supplier of insignia and accessories in the US, and deal with a number of large organizations and institutions besides CAP, as well as a large numbers of the general public.

CAP is a small but significant portion of their business, certainly less than 10%.

[jimmydeanno]

So, if Vanguard gets 50K+ CAP orders per year and there are about 12 "Vanguard did a lousy job" threads here (since we're using these as the basis for the value of Vanguard's service) that works out to 0.024% dissatisfaction rate.  Even if you assume that there may be "ten times" that amount of dissatisfied customers, or even "one-hundred times", you're still at 2.4%.  From a retail industry standpoint, 97% Customer Satisfaction is nearly unheard of.

Even lean, mean, profit generating customer-service oriented Apple scored an 81% in customer satisfaction last year.  With an 81% satisfaction rate for CAP, that would mean that they could "botch" nearly 10,000 orders of CAP customers each year and still be ranking with some of the top public companies out there.

[RiverAux]

Well, I'm not sure that math holds up. 

I assume that VG has some sort of customer satisfaction measure that they keep track of.    Has anyone had some sort of survey or feedback request from VG after placing an order? 

[jimmydeanno]

Well, I'm not sure that math holds up. 

I assume that VG has some sort of customer satisfaction measure that they keep track of.    Has anyone had some sort of survey or feedback request from VG after placing an order?

Obviously very unscientific.  I am still going to assume that Vanguard doesn't "displease" 1 in 5 CAP members in some way.  The customer satisfaction surveys always include multiple categories: timeliness of order, ease of ordering, quality of product, interaction with agents, responsiveness to problems, etc.  So, there are many areas for a company to "fail" and fall into that dissatisfied category.

In our case, someone could get a slightly chipped flight cap device and rate their quality as poor.  No business has 100% satisfaction.  There is always someone who is upset for one reason or another, and they're usually the most vocal.  Afterall, what is there to complain about when something goes like it should?

In Vanguard's case, I've had mixed reviews, trending towards significantly improved.  Even in the beginning of their dealings with CAP, when stuff was still mislabeled, etc they were always willing to remedy the problem.  Many cases they even went above and beyond what I would have considered normal.

For example, about 5 years ago, my wife needed a couple of CAP polo shirts embroidered.  We lived about 4 miles from the Vanguard building.  Since they didn't have any her size (female shape and petiteness), they told her that she could bring in her own shirt and they'd embroider it for her.  Not only did they only charge her $5.00 per shirt, but they did it while she waited.  $15.00, 3 polos, 30 minutes.

I needed to get new mess dress shoulder boards.  They were out of stock of the ones that I needed, because they hadn't finalized the manufacturing contract with their supplier yet.  Understanding what I was looking for, the lady suggested that I just buy a pair of the bullion insignia and replace them.  It was like $5.00 instead of $40.00 for a new set of boards.  My understanding is that those aren't something that they normally sell separately.  They could have said "sorry, you're out of luck."

This summer, I was sent the wrong sized IACE polos.  I got the replacements in two days.  It was sent priority overnight at no cost.  I had the replacements before I even sent the wrong size back.

I placed an order a few weeks ago, which they had in their hands for less than 24 hours before it shipped.  It took UPS a bit longer, but that's not their fault. 

I recently ordered a GRW mini medal and recieved a National Commander's Citation instead (very similar looking, only reversed).  Again, fixing the order was no problem.

In terms of quality, I haven't had any qualms with their embroidery (significantly better than the Hock's ever was).  I think their products are very nice.  In fact, I just got a garment bag with the CAP seal on it.  Great product.  The only thing that I was ever disappointed with was a run of senior epaulet sleeves that I ordered during their transition.  They used some sort of cheap grey fabric that looked bad.  The next ones I ordered were fine again.

Sure, I poke some fun at them because their novelty items are a bit cheeseball in design, but the products are quality.

I measure a company's commitment to customer satisfaction based on how they handle their mistakes, and so far, they've fixed them promptly and without hassle.  Sometimes things slip through the cracks and someone you interact with isn't as awesome as they should be (as I noted earlier in the thread), which can leave a sour taste.  Overall, though, I think that our arrangement with Vanguard is significantly better than what we had previously.

[a2capt]

The only thing that I was ever disappointed with was a run of senior epaulet sleeves that I ordered during their transition.  They used some sort of cheap grey fabric that looked bad.  The next ones I ordered were fine again.

Sure, I poke some fun at them because their novelty items are a bit cheeseball in design, but the products are quality.

I noticed these things back when and my initial reaction was "wow, the Hock is taking stuff to new lows of acceptance" and then at the next Wing conference I saw that these were what was on the Vanguard table. The one time I "blamed" the Hock for a craptastic product, and it wasn't theirs. So I immediately set out to procure Major and Lt. Col. sets of the then, now "old" kind and keep them in waiting as I was not interested in those cheesy paper looking things. I was happy to see at this weekends CAWG conference that the quality and decency of the product has returned to near that of what was produced prior to their take over.

..and the cheeseball stuff? LOL.. like the giant carpet like coaster thing to set "stuff" on, with a CAP majcom on it? But for a buck on the clearance shelf.. why not. ;-) .. even if it's just to toss at the crocodiles in Ghana to see if they'll bite.

I will say, I have found the *best* time to order from Vanguard is from the Wing Conference, or National Boards and if they don't have it on the table, they'll ship it 'free'.

Hint: Need stuff for unit supply, and a Wing Conference is coming up? Send someone who's going with a shopping list, and if they don't have what you need, you may even get the whole thing shipped to you.

[BillB]

IF CAP members have the problems with Vanguard that show up in these posts. And IF Vanguard does nothing to improve the service to CAP member, perhaps there is a breach of contract existing. Noting from the posts that members have had good service from Vanguard, and also poor service, maybe the National Board needs to take a 2nd look at the contract with Vanguard.
I personally have never ordered from Vanguard, but did order from The Hock and got great service. It's a fact that much of what the Hock sold was produced by Vanguard. There is no question based on these posts that The Hock has given CAP members much better service than Vanguard.
Look into the history of CAP and you'll find that companies were approved by CAP to sell CAP insignia. This goes way back to World War II. The difference being there were several companies at a time that were approved, not a single company. Should the Vanguard contact be reviewed by the NEC or NB to insure acceptable service from Vanguard is a question above my pay grade. IF there is a problem only peoiple with eagles on their epaulets can resolve them. (or maybe a LtCol on the BOG).
As to the "kick-backs" to CAP,  as I understand it, there were no other ideas for the use of the funds other than what the NB did with the money since the amount of funding in a longer term was not a stable dollar amount.

[Eclipse]

It's a fact that much of what the Hock sold was produced by Vanguard.

Supported by what evidence?  Do you think VG is going to care if you buy stuff from them in quantity and then resell it and it either a personal loss or higher prices?

There is no question based on these posts that The Hock has given CAP members much better service than Vanguard.

No, there is no question a few people have had issues with orders on a random basis and they happen to be active here.

[BillB]

Do you think VG is going to care if you buy stuff from them in quantity and then resell it and it either a personal loss or higher prices?

Why not Vanguard used to be a RETAIL and WHOLESALE business. They did it in the past

[CAP Producer]

Do you think VG is going to care if you buy stuff from them in quantity and then resell it and it either a personal loss or higher prices?

Why not Vanguard used to be a RETAIL and WHOLESALE business. They did it in the past

They still are. Wholesale to AAFES, NAVY Exchange, CG Exchange, the CG Aux and the government. rRetail to the general public.

[DBlair]

And it is worth noting that a perfectly legal and inexpensive market for CAP-specfic items already exists - it is perfectly permissible for members to buy, sell, and trade existing insignia.  We see some of that here on CT.  I see it a lot on eBay.  IOW, there are some alternatives to VG, and allow members to vote with their wallets if they want.

An interesting point, but this is comparing the new/used markets as equals. If someone wishes to have clean/crisp new insignia, etc, then VG is the only option. Economically, in any market being considered, there is always expected used market and black market activity, but these should not be factored as a mainstream alternatives of equal quality, but rather as second-rate substitutions. Essentially, if a member has no issue wearing perhaps old, worn, or relatively dirty insignia, ribbons, medals, etc, then the used market may be for them. If someone wants new, clean, crisp insignia, then the new (i.e. VG) market is the only option.

If anyone sincerely believes that there is no difference between used and new ribbons than I guess we have a difference in perspective. Show me one single drill team that won NCC inspection without fresh ribbons.

[Eclipse]

Do you think VG is going to care if you buy stuff from them in quantity and then resell it and it either a personal loss or higher prices?

Why not Vanguard used to be a RETAIL and WHOLESALE business. They did it in the past

Yes, and should VG choose to create a secondary market for their products, as Al pointed out they already do, that is their prerogative, in which case anyone selling those products could set the price anyway they want (barring some contractual agreement on price).

As it stands today, anyone who wants to pay full retail for VG's stuff and sell it for a loss, or even a higher price, would be free to do so as there is no law against resale when the manufacturer has already made full profit (of course VG would be free to just refuse to sell in quantity as many retailers do).

Neither was the case here, where you had a separate, for profit, entity who chose to violate the intellectual property rights of an organization he said he held dear, and further provide an inferior product to members of that organization, at prices that were about the same as the approved vendor.

Even worse, though I don't have direct knowledge of this, others have commented that he ignored the directives from NHQ
ordering a cease and desist - you know this is the same organization for which he used to be a member and promised to obey.

All under the guise of "helping members".  I have been in for 11 years, seen the depot, bookstore, CAPMart, and VG.  All had issues, never was I unable to procure something I needed, nor did I need THS to provide it.  I have, however, had to deal with 10+ years of incorrect colors, etc., on insignia of my subordinates and fellow members, who wasted their money and had to replace items when they found them to be incorrect.

Apparently the CAP honor code, US law, or simple ethics are all thrown out the window when things are made "easy".
That attitude fits very well in a universe that currently thinks that music, videos, and software are also "free" as long
as you don't get caught.

At a minimum this will make an excellent subject for Character Development sessions.  "Ethics and law" vs. "the free market".

[Ned]

Show me one single drill team that won NCC inspection without fresh ribbons.

Argh.  A "cross-over" thread!

Don't get me started on NCC.

I'm gonna crack that nut just as soon as we are done rebalancing corporate governance.   

(But suffice it to say that we will restructure NCC in a way that does not require teams to buy and tailor new uniforms,new ribbons and insignia, and matching track suits to win.  That is simply too much money down the drain and reduces the ability of the average unit to compete and gain the advantages of the NCC experience.)

Ned Lee