CAP Talk

General Discussion => Uniforms & Awards => Topic started by: Wildbilly1760 on April 10, 2019, 02:19:06 AM

Title: EMT badge ?
Post by: Wildbilly1760 on April 10, 2019, 02:19:06 AM
I am currently a Certified EMT.  What is the exact procedure to be allowed to wear the EMT badge.  Copy of certificate into personnel folder.  39-1 seems vague other than placement and others in my unit do not know.  Thanks for any input.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Eclipse on April 10, 2019, 03:31:43 AM
Copy of the file in the personnel folder.  That's it.

Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Wildbilly1760 on April 10, 2019, 07:34:36 PM
Thank you!
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: PHall on April 10, 2019, 10:43:47 PM
Quote from: BradWood on April 10, 2019, 02:19:06 AM
I am currently a Certified EMT.  What is the exact procedure to be allowed to wear the EMT badge.  Copy of certificate into personnel folder.  39-1 seems vague other than placement and others in my unit do not know.  Thanks for any input.

Well considering that the 39-1 is the Uniform manual, it's not surprising that it's only concerned with the placement of the patch on the uniform.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Stonewall on April 11, 2019, 12:56:24 AM
Here's a question I've always wondered about the EMT badge.  If you earn aircrew wings, they're permanent, even if your qualification lapses. What about the EMT badge? 

Let's say you earned the EMT badge, but your qualification expires. Do you remove the EMT badge?
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Eclipse on April 11, 2019, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: Stonewall on April 11, 2019, 12:56:24 AM
Here's a question I've always wondered about the EMT badge.  If you earn aircrew wings, they're permanent, even if your qualification lapses. What about the EMT badge? 

Let's say you earned the EMT badge, but your qualification expires. Do you remove the EMT badge?

It used to be current only, now it's current or previously certified.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Stonewall on April 11, 2019, 01:08:52 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on April 11, 2019, 01:01:33 AM
Quote from: Stonewall on April 11, 2019, 12:56:24 AM
Here's a question I've always wondered about the EMT badge.  If you earn aircrew wings, they're permanent, even if your qualification lapses. What about the EMT badge? 

Let's say you earned the EMT badge, but your qualification expires. Do you remove the EMT badge?

It used to be current only, now it's current or previously certified.

Didn't know that changed. I rarely wore it when I was qualified as I stuck mostly with GTM/OBS badges...or jump wings :-)
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: xyzzy on April 11, 2019, 02:48:18 AM
I've had enough instances where I was wearing one set of attire and unexpectedly having to shift roles. So I would not wear a badge unless I was prepared to carry out the function indicated by the badge. So far I haven't had to do EMS work while wearing CAP attire, but I've done Red Cross disaster work while wearing EMS attire, and EMS work while wearing Red Cross attire.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Fubar on April 11, 2019, 04:10:08 AM
Quote from: xyzzy on April 11, 2019, 02:48:18 AM
I've had enough instances where I was wearing one set of attire and unexpectedly having to shift roles. So I would not wear a badge unless I was prepared to carry out the function indicated by the badge. So far I haven't had to do EMS work while wearing CAP attire, but I've done Red Cross disaster work while wearing EMS attire, and EMS work while wearing Red Cross attire.

Sounds like you keep wearing the wrong attire.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: CAP9907 on April 11, 2019, 05:29:55 AM
Quote from: xyzzy on April 11, 2019, 02:48:18 AM
I've had enough instances where I was wearing one set of attire and unexpectedly having to shift roles. So I would not wear a badge unless I was prepared to carry out the function indicated by the badge. So far I haven't had to do EMS work while wearing CAP attire, but I've done Red Cross disaster work while wearing EMS attire, and EMS work while wearing Red Cross attire.

Except in CAP there is no expectation for you to assume the role of an EMT. It is not an Ops Qual and we are not a healthcare or EMS agency/provider.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Slim on April 11, 2019, 06:21:13 AM
It is one of those badges that you're allowed to continue wearing even after your currency expires, same at the GT badges and aero ratings.

However, in practice, it's probably not a good idea.  Notwithstanding the fact that CAP has no role as an EMS provider, everyone in the world knows what the star of life represents, and there's an expectation there in the public's eyes.  If you're not a current EMT, why advertise to the world that you are or were?


Personally, when the day comes that I decide not to renew my license, my badge will come off and I'll go back to wearing the GT badge that I earned BITD.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: CAP9907 on April 11, 2019, 07:48:25 AM
Quote from: Slim on April 11, 2019, 06:21:13 AM
It is one of those badges that you're allowed to continue wearing even after your currency expires, same at the GT badges and aero ratings.

However, in practice, it's probably not a good idea.  Notwithstanding the fact that CAP has no role as an EMS provider, everyone in the world knows what the star of life represents, and there's an expectation there in the public's eyes.  If you're not a current EMT, why advertise to the world that you are or were?


Personally, when the day comes that I decide not to renew my license, my badge will come off and I'll go back to wearing the GT badge that I earned BITD.

Absolutely understood and I agree. My only point was that CAP regs allow all those to be worn.. perhaps the powers that be should re-examine the requirements to make it that only active and qualified personnel can wear them??

~9907
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: GroundHawg on April 11, 2019, 11:36:37 AM
Has anyone here taken a Wilderness EMT upgrade course? I would like to know opinions before I drop $750 and take a week off of work to attend.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: xyzzy on April 11, 2019, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: CAP9907 on April 11, 2019, 05:29:55 AM
Except in CAP there is no expectation for you to assume the role of an EMT. It is not an Ops Qual and we are not a healthcare or EMS agency/provider.

CAP may have no such expectation, but my state expects all people present in the state to provide medical assistance to their level of training. If their level of training is former EMT but they're wearing a badge with a star of life, it's a bit confusing.

Quote
Vermont Statutes Annotated Title 12, Chapter 23 § 519:

Emergency Medical Care

(a) A person who knows another is exposed to grave physical harm shall, to the extent that the same can be rendered without danger or peril to himself or without interference with important duties owed to others, give reasonable assistance to the exposed person unless that assistance or care is being provided by others.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: RMW14 on April 11, 2019, 10:54:10 PM
Quote from: GroundHawg on April 11, 2019, 11:36:37 AM
Has anyone here taken a Wilderness EMT upgrade course? I would like to know opinions before I drop $750 and take a week off of work to attend.

I took the new NASAR Wilderness Upgrade in November. It was a great course and it help reinforce some of the basic skills that can tend to get overlooked or not used in the day to day pre-hospital world.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: CAPCom on April 12, 2019, 04:49:28 PM
Quote from: BradWood on April 10, 2019, 02:19:06 AM
I am currently a Certified EMT.  What is the exact procedure to be allowed to wear the EMT badge.  Copy of certificate into personnel folder.  39-1 seems vague other than placement and others in my unit do not know.  Thanks for any input.

There is no official procedure because while one may be an EMT on the job, one will never be an EMT performing EMT functions/skills outside of basic first aid skills as a member of CAP.  The knowledge and experience is all that counts in relation to CAP as CAP isn't a certifying authority for EMTs or paramedics and has no EMT specialty track.

CAPM 39-1 provides the only clarification necessary: if you are now or have ever been certified as an EMT, you may wear the EMT Occupational Badge on your uniform as specified in the uniform manual.

You can now go online to Vanguard, get the EMT Occupational Badge, present your certification to your squadron commander for your file, and then wear the badge proudly.  You may continue to wear it even after you are no longer certified.  In fact, one need not have been a CAP member prior to certification to wear it. 

Congrats on your recent cert, by the way!
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: JayT on April 12, 2019, 06:59:07 PM
Quote from: xyzzy on April 11, 2019, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: CAP9907 on April 11, 2019, 05:29:55 AM
Except in CAP there is no expectation for you to assume the role of an EMT. It is not an Ops Qual and we are not a healthcare or EMS agency/provider.

CAP may have no such expectation, but my state expects all people present in the state to provide medical assistance to their level of training. If their level of training is former EMT but they're wearing a badge with a star of life, it's a bit confusing.

Quote
Vermont Statutes Annotated Title 12, Chapter 23 § 519:

Emergency Medical Care

(a) A person who knows another is exposed to grave physical harm shall, to the extent that the same can be rendered without danger or peril to himself or without interference with important duties owed to others, give reasonable assistance to the exposed person unless that assistance or care is being provided by others.

That's a standard Good Samaritan law. It doesn't mean that you can preform as an EMT for CAP and not expect problems.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Eclipse on April 12, 2019, 07:07:12 PM
So in Vermont instead of just asking for help or calling 911, people start
checking badges?

Or is it like a Pokemon Power thing?
You can only use your powers of medical knowledge if you have the correct badge on?
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Ned on April 12, 2019, 07:32:46 PM
Quote from: JayT on April 12, 2019, 06:59:07 PM
Quote from: xyzzy on April 11, 2019, 01:20:12 PM
Quote from: CAP9907 on April 11, 2019, 05:29:55 AM
Except in CAP there is no expectation for you to assume the role of an EMT. It is not an Ops Qual and we are not a healthcare or EMS agency/provider.

CAP may have no such expectation, but my state expects all people present in the state to provide medical assistance to their level of training. If their level of training is former EMT but they're wearing a badge with a star of life, it's a bit confusing.

Quote
Vermont Statutes Annotated Title 12, Chapter 23 § 519:

Emergency Medical Care

(a) A person who knows another is exposed to grave physical harm shall, to the extent that the same can be rendered without danger or peril to himself or without interference with important duties owed to others, give reasonable assistance to the exposed person unless that assistance or care is being provided by others.

That's a standard Good Samaritan law. It doesn't mean that you can preform as an EMT for CAP and not expect problems.

Not really.  This particular Vermont statute is not a Good Samaritan Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law), but rather a "duty to rescue" law which is altogether another animal.

Good Samaritan laws are found in all 50 states and while they vary from state to state, are designed to encourage rescue and first aid for those in need.  Mostly by providing a legal defense for the rescuer (who acts reasonably, within the scope of their training, lawfully, etc.) against civil lawsuits brought by the injured person after a bad outcome.

Duty to Rescue laws are different, and rare.  When I went to law school, I was taught that Vermont had the only one.  But now Minnesota and Rhode Island also have laws like this to actually make it a crime for a person to fail to attempt to rescue another, provided it can be done safely without putting the rescuer or others in harm's way.

In the other 47 states, there is no legal duty to rescue absent a "special relationship" with the person in peril (employers, common carriers, etc.).  You could just stand and watch somebody drown 10 feet offshore and you would not be punished (or liable) for failure to toss them a rope or call 911.

Morally, however is an entire different story . . .

/legal trivia mode.

You may resume your argument about CAP badges and uniforms.


Ned Lee
Former CAP Legal Officer
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Wildbilly1760 on April 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
 https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2378420499035994&id=100006042011569
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: CAPed Crusader on June 04, 2019, 08:23:03 PM
Also, in eServices, in operations management, you can upload your certification to get it record.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: JayT on June 04, 2019, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: BradWood on April 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2378420499035994&id=100006042011569

If you didn't know the job sucks when you got into it, you weren't paying attention. I tell all of my interns to do something else.
Title: Re: EMT badge ?
Post by: Huey Driver on June 05, 2019, 12:49:20 AM
Quote from: JayT on June 04, 2019, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: BradWood on April 13, 2019, 04:59:52 PM
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2378420499035994&id=100006042011569
I tell all of my interns to do something else.

What does that accomplish? Like you said, any decently informed student should know the struggles of a career in EMS - and many still choose to pursue it; accepting the stress, long hours, health concerns, and cheap wages. I wouldn't discourage prospective future providers from the job, but I would absolutely want them to know what they're getting into. It can be a rewarding career, although many seasoned providers and careerists have been abused and radiate pessimism.

In any case, killing your interns/students' desire to enter the field doesn't help this situation, it contributes to it.