HAZING at encampment--WHAT is it?

[PHall]

Ya.... Cadet Commander coming in 2 days late is a no-go on the part of the Senior Encampment Commander.  If he or she could not find a cadet competent enough to be Cadet Commander, it was a setup from the start, so much so that there was no Cadet commander for 2 days.

I suspect changes will come down from Wing (if not region) for the next Encampment.  If you still have issues, I suggest you address them to the Wing/ Region IG.  Make sure your observations are taken note of.

Wow.....bringing in an out of Wing Cadet is like a slap int eh face to those Wing members that spent years moving up the chain of command at encampment. 

BAD MOVE all around.

You assume there was somebody available in the Wing to do the job.

Sometimes the talent pool can be pretty shallow. Stuff like school and jobs can get in the way.

[Spike]

^ I am sure one of the numerous Cadet Staff members could have been asked to step up.  There is always a Cadet waiting to do it.  When was the last Encampment you went to where there were no Staff Cadets??  Never?!?!

[PHall]

^ I am sure one of the numerous Cadet Staff members could have been asked to step up.  There is always a Cadet waiting to do it.  When was the last Encampment you went to where there were no Staff Cadets??  Never?!?!

But was there someone available who had the knowledge and skills to run the thing?

It's one thing to be a Flight Commander, it's an entirely different thing to be the Commander.

I've been to Encampment Staff Selections where everybody who applied got a job because the applicant pool was thin and other years where we've had to turn good people away.

It seems to happen in cycles....

[Airrace]

 I agree one of the numerous Cadet Staff members could have been asked to step up.  There is always a Cadet waiting to step up. If there was no emergency reason why he was two days late then he should of been replaced prior to showing up. I wonder who was in charge for two days while he was gone!

[Ned]

Being an encampment commander is a difficult and thankless job.  And almost always done by In Addition to Other Duties by a unit commander or CP staff officer.

For running one of the largest activities in the wing/region (both in terms of personnel and budget), you might get a "thank you" from the CC and maybe even a Commander's Commendation or something.

And of course complaints, mishap investigations, and endless hearburn.

Which is often aggravated by people sharpshooting and second-guessing you on the internet.  For the world to see.  And usually done anonymously by people who weren't there and have no personal knowledge of the facts.

This thread started with an appropriate discussion of hazing, but has taken a turn towards taking pot-shots at an encampment commander's staffing decisions.

Any wonder we have difficulty getting people to stand up for this demanding assignment?

[jeancalvinus]

Ned,

Do not know if anyone else was available in the wing for the CC slot, BUT only 4 cadets from the wing showed up to be staff. When the 2 cadet staff members left after the incidents, they were down to 2 cadet staff (since the CC was relieved).

Forgive me for not emphasizing this, but I am very thankful that there were senior members from the wing available (and willing) to come and run/ administer the encampment.  I hope to try and help myself next summer (I have a CONSIDERABLE amount of experience with things of this nature). One thing is for sure, I hope to provide ALL staff with the proper guidance prior to encampment, even if I have to do net meetings. Not communicating expectations clearly and in a timely manner sets up cadets (and senior members) to fail.

Maybe the thing to do is create and then post some lectures on youtube for cadets to look at weeks prior to encampment. I could even include multiple examples of what constitutes acceptable/ unacceptable behavior. THAT would be a fun project for a squadron to do on a weekend when no other activity is available.

I'm glad there is folks who volunteer, even with all of the (sometimes necessary) red tape they have to go through.

[jimmydeanno]

One thing is for sure, I hope to provide ALL staff with the proper guidance prior to encampment, even if I have to do net meetings. Not communicating expectations clearly and in a timely manner sets up cadets (and senior members) to fail.

This is a great idea, and one that many encampment utilize already.  But in its simplest form is what CAP affectionately calls "Required Staff Training" or RST for short.

Here is the link from the CAPNHQ website: http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/cadet_programs/library/required_staff_training.cfm

In addition, many wings incorporate the RST into a staff training weekend or a few days prior to the encampment and discuss standards, staff organization, expectations, etc.

Thank you for your time.

[BrandonKea]

One thing is for sure, I hope to provide ALL staff with the proper guidance prior to encampment, even if I have to do net meetings. Not communicating expectations clearly and in a timely manner sets up cadets (and senior members) to fail.

This is a great idea, and one that many encampment utilize already.  But in its simplest form is what CAP affectionately calls "Required Staff Training" or RST for short.

Here is the link from the CAPNHQ website: http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/cadet_programs/library/required_staff_training.cfm

In addition, many wings incorporate the RST into a staff training weekend or a few days prior to the encampment and discuss standards, staff organization, expectations, etc.

Thank you for your time.

Emphasis on the fact that RST is nowhere near what an encampment staff needs for training. It is the basic, bare mininum of what must be briefed. I've been to encampments where this is ALL that was briefed, and, well, things didn't go well.

My third encampment, I was assigned a staff position of Flight Commander. About a week out, the encampment CC called and asked if I would be the Deputy Cadet Commander. We also had another C/1st Lt who was the XO who picked the job up a week before. (We ended up switching jobs as she had a bit more line experience than did I). So, while there may always be cadets wanting to step up... I've been on the other side of this too.

The next encampment I went to, one year later, several cadets were upset at the encampment leadership, and 2/3's of the squadron commanders quit. Also, we had a flight commander who was unable to continue her duties due to a medical issue. Did anyone want to step up and be a flight commander or squadron commander? Nope. I stepped in for about a day before they got their ducks in a row and rearranged everything and put me back in my job of "random task guru." The squadrons were effectively commanderless for 3 days of the encampment, until graduation when they were convinced to just do the pass in review.

Leadership means a lot to the people at an encampment. I agree with Ned, it is probably VERY difficult to find a dedicated Encampment CC who has the knowhow, want, ability, and vacation time to even think about taking on this daunting task. And again, the DISCUSSION was very good, until the attacks started.

[jeancalvinus]

This just in......"swearing at a cadet is not hazing."

Never expected THAT outcome. What an interesting thing this CAP organization is. I won't leave over this, but it sure is disappointing.

[CadetProgramGuy]

This just in......"swearing at a cadet is not hazing."

Never expected THAT outcome. What an interesting thing this CAP organization is. I won't give leave over this, but it sure is disappointing.

apparently integrity is no longer a core value....

[Eclipse]

The use of profanity is poor leadership, poor example, and unacceptable in CAP, especially concerning cadets.

But in and of itself its not necessarily hazing.  In fact, you'd be hard-pressed to identify any specific behavior that can consistently be identified as pure hazing 100% of the time.

What we need to do is address poor behavior and leadership directly and with common sense, and stop trying to apply the big stick of "hazing" to every incorrect technique, or worse, simple mistake of a bunch of inconsistently trained volunteers.

[Spike]

I think things like staffing issues would be solved if little Wings got together and held joint Encampments.  When your Encampment produces 30-60 Cadet Graduates, time to get together with other Wings. 

[jeancalvinus]

Eclipse,

Your point is well made, and taken. My question is why say "swearing at cadets is not hazing" instead of "this particular incidence of swearing at cadets did not constitute hazing."

Another thing I would be curious about is WHAT IF THE CADET RAISES AN OBJECTION TO THE SWEARING (in this particular instance, it was liberal and regular use of F-bombs)? If they object, are the cadet staff and senior members at liberty to ignore them and continue on?

Just curious.

[AirAux]

Where did you come up with this statement?  "This just in......"swearing at a cadet is not hazing.""  I need some particulars on this.  I think someone is misinformed.  It may not be hazing, but I bet I can get someone 2b ed on this..

[jeancalvinus]

I am of course trying to keep the location of this encampment out of the limelight, and as such must be quite vague on some of the particulars.

Under that guise, my answer is that this statement came from higher, and is official.

[Eclipse]

^ The problem with this and other things like it is that its too specific.  We weren't there, and if we were probably wouldn't be at liberty, or comfortable to discuss it in detail.

Bottom line, things like you're describing do sadly happen in CAP, and schools, and sports, and Boy Scouts, and just about anywhere else misinformed, incorrectly trained or poorly supervised people gather with authority over others.

If the things you are saying occurred, did, they were over the line and someone should have told them to knock it off.  After the fact, if it can be determined what really went on and it was what you describe, action should be taken to correct the understanding of the involved members, and possibly change the names on the staff roster for next year.

Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't.   Throwing continued asterisks to the story at us to continue the thread starts to make it seem like you're just out to make this sound as bad as possible without being able to move on.

Don't become that "one-track" member who was wronged and can't frame any CAP involvement outside a reference to the "bad thing".  We have enough of those already.

The other thing that seems to be lost on some members, especially parents, and double-especially new parents - we're all volunteers, and the depth at position is pretty low.  That's not remotely an excuse for poor or illegal behavior, but far too many members who feel they were slighted, or worse, want an immediate Armageddon solution to the problem, when a simple conversation and attitude adjustment is all that's warranted (i.e. "Lighten up Francis.").

Perspective.  Not everything is hazing, and not all hazing is grounds for termination.  Fix it and move on.

[jeancalvinus]

Eclipse

I am sensitive to the issues you raise. I am not really trying to keep this thread going by throwing things out, but the update is accurate, and timely.

Not bitter at CAP, and definitely not one-track (look at my other posts in other topics). I have eyes wide-open to the problems inherent in these organizations, and joined anyway. My involvement thus far has been very rewarding, and I plan to continue.

The resolution to this problem is puzzling, but does include some very appropriate outcomes, which I outlined and am VERY happy with. Other outcomes, obviously not.

AMEN on the "Armageddon solution" mentality. Many of my cadets have it (especially on the issue of attendance). Good quote from Stripes. And yes, I agree, not all hazing (or improper behavior, or whatever label you want to put on it) is grounds for termination. Sometimes a simple corrective comment is good, or for more serious situation, a removal from training, or for even more serious, a reduction in cadet or senior rank.

For the record, I like CAP, I think it benefits the cadets (and senior members), and I plan to continue ENTHUSIASTICALLY. I am actively recruiting both cadets AND senior members, and hope to double our Cadet side in the next year (unit "historians" say we were once MUCH bigger, and I hope to return to that level). I myself hope to be knee-deep in a cadet encampment next year, on the operations side. I plan to insure cadet staff have training prior to the event, and want a training schedule in place 3 months out to make certain we all know what we are doing and what support we need. Many of the suggestions/ observations from this thread will be incorporated, Lord willing.

Good post. I like your view on this issue.

jean

[DG]

It is sometimes difficult to draw the line between teasing, common to teenagers, and hazing which goes beyond teasing to demeaning and humiliating behavior. Hazing is defined in Paragraph 1c (below) of CAP Regulation 52-10, CAP Cadet Protection Policy.  Incidents of possible hazing should be reported to the unit commander who is charged with making a determination if the incident meets the criteria for "hazing."

1c. Hazing. Hazing is defined as any conduct whereby someone causes another to suffer or to be exposed to any activity that is cruel, abusive, humiliating, oppressive, demeaning, or harmful. Actual or implied consent to acts of hazing does not eliminate the culpability of the perpetrator. Examples of hazing include using exercise as punishment or assigning remedial training that does not fit the deficiency (such as making a cadet run laps for having poorly shined shoes). Hazing, as defined in this policy, is considered a form of physical abuse and the reporting procedures for physical abuse must be followed.

[ZigZag911]

DG -- teasing ought to occur between equals.

Cadet basics can't tease back at cadet staff...there is a power imbalance....staff ought to be taught that generally this sort of behavior is undesirable...it might be different in a home squadron, where the players know one another better, but even then the seniors supervising cadet program need to keep an eye on what's going on, and step in where needed.

[DG]

DG -- teasing ought to occur between equals.

Cadet basics can't tease back at cadet staff...there is a power imbalance....staff ought to be taught that generally this sort of behavior is undesirable...it might be different in a home squadron, where the players know one another better, but even then the seniors supervising cadet program need to keep an eye on what's going on, and step in where needed.

ZigZag - Good point!