SER Winter Encampment

[LittleIronPilot]

With one person having so many apparent uniform violations why didn't the Encampment Command line do something to correct the violations. How can the Senior staff members be an example to cadets if their uniforms are not according to the regulations?

Come on now...even my newbie self knows that answer to that. From what I can tell by many on this forum, the MISSION is all that matters, uniforms, discipline, rank...NONE of it matters so long as we "try" to do the mission. 

[mikeylikey]

^ Right On!  it is as much the violators fault as it is those that let him get away with it!

[BlackKnight]

What is he wearing that says he's a cadet?  He's wearing a gold BAR, not a gold or silver pip.  That was part of the original discussion "why is he wearing pin-on rank instead of sew-on".

Stonewall, you're absolutely right and I humbly stand corrected.  Flyguy wrote "2nd Lt" but I was thinking "Cadet 2nd Lt" the whole time.  I've seen new Cadet 2nd Lts pin metal rank on their BDUs and claim they didn't know any better, or didn't have anyone available to sew for them.   It's a common error because cadets do wear metal grade insignia on their BDUs until they become cadet officers. Then they have to switch to the cloth insignia.  CAP senior members start out with cloth insignia so the error is far less common.  We're starting to see it creep in more often now that seniors wear grade insignia on their BDU caps. It's just all too convenient to pin that metal grade on the BDU cap instead of sewing it.

Sorry for the thread drift-  We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...

[flyguy06]

How in the world did my thread about the SER encampment turn into a "Senior Member wears the incorrect rank" Thread? That wasnt the purpose of this thread.

[BillB]

Real simple, this is NOT the thread you started. The one you started is "Just returned from the SER Encampment"

[flyguy06]

Sorry. Either way, it was not a thread about uniforms

[BillB]

It's really not about uniforms, it's about one senior wearing incorrect or unearned insignia and uniform at an encampment where seniors are supposed to be role models. I'd like to see your comments on the encampment, you should see the emails I've gotten already

[flyguy06]

i posted the good comments.

[DC]

My C/XO was a flight sgt, what's this I hear about the Encampment having an ES emphasis? I went to SER 05-06 and I had one ES class on shelter building, other than that it was more military orientation, lots of classes from AD and reserve personnel from the AF, Army and Marines, the tour of the 1st FS, etc. It seems to me that ES training is better accomplished at unit training and SAREXs than Encampment...

[BlackKnight]

The SER Encampment Op Orders requested that cadets get GES and bring their CAPF-101's because there would be ES training during the encampment.  I took that seriously and got all our cadets who were attending ready for training.  GES, all prerequisites done and commander approvals to begin training for for GTM3, UDF, and FLM. They arrived with SQTRs in hand.

Upon their return I asked how the ES training went.  They said they got to play with an L-Per for a little while but that was about it. Nothing was signed off. 

I concur with your opinion that ES training is best achieved at dedicated ES activities. However, basic GTM3, UDF, and FLM training can be easily accomplished at an encampment if you plan and schedule it in advance and have qualified instructors. I just don't like jumping through all those ES admin hoops in anticipation of training that apparently never occured.  We also didn't get any CPFT results.  The cadets apparently did P/T every day but no formal records were kept. (Or if they did keep records they didn't send them home.)  In my wing, encampment P/T records are normally sent back to the home squadrons so that we can record their CPFT scores.

[flyguy06]

Blacknight,

I sent you a PM

[Stonewall]

Upon their return I asked how the ES training went.  They said they got to play with an L-Per for a little while but that was about it. Nothing was signed off. 

I concur with your opinion that ES training is best achieved at dedicated ES activities. However, basic GTM3, UDF, and FLM training can be easily accomplished at an encampment if you plan and schedule it in advance and have qualified instructors.

I've been to a couple encampments where there was a big push for ES training or at least it was advertised as such.  Truth is, unless it's a 100% ES activity like NESA, you just can't handle training 100 people who are at different levels.  You'd have to take the newbies into one group, the GES'ers into another, GTMs, and so on.  The only thing I can see being relevant and worth while at an encampment as far as ES is concerned is an overview type briefing on CAP's emergency services mission.  To some that could be boring, but I know some folks that can turn a shoe lace  tying class into the best class you've ever had.

As for the CPFT scores/records you mentioned, that's something else I think should be officially documented and attached to their encampment certificate.  Why waste 5 or 6 days worth of good PT time when you can actually benefit the cadet at their home squadron.

[BillB]

Documenting PT at an encampment would be an administration nightmare. With between 150 and 300 cadets (depending on what Wing/Region encampment you're considering) doing PT daily, that's an awful lot of paperwork for the admin section. Add to this on a mile run the personnel keeping time don't know names of cadets at the finish line, so record keeping would be spotty at best.
Granted the SER WE Encampment "advertised " ES training, which in reality didn't happen, but that seems to be a matter of poor planning. 50-16 outlines required training for an encampment, but there is time above the listed requirements for several ES classes at various levels.

[AlphaSigOU]

Documenting PT at an encampment would be an administration nightmare. With between 150 and 300 cadets (depending on what Wing/Region encampment you're considering) doing PT daily, that's an awful lot of paperwork for the admin section. Add to this on a mile run the personnel keeping time don't know names of cadets at the finish line, so record keeping would be spotty at best.

Gonna hafta agree with Col. Breeze... they woulda sent me home from the encampment in a straitjacket on a padded ambulance straight to the looney bin if I hadta track all that stuff! 

[dwb]

My first encampment was an ES encampment.  I think it was doable because most people who attend encampment for the first time haven't been in CAP very long, and thus probably don't have a lot of ES training under their belts.

We left encampment with a 101 card and an ROP card.  That was back when 101 cards were yellow, and CAPM 50-16 directed how an encampment could be conducted.

I don't think it's feasible nowadays unless your encampment is pretty long, since the encampment curriculum was overhauled in 2003.  To do the required curriculum and train for ES ratings is probably too much to do well.

Re: CPFT -- in NY, we conduct the CPFT during the encampment, recording scores and all.  It takes a well orchestrated effort, but it can be done.  We average around 120 in-flight cadets (that's the limit of our facility -- I know our encampment would be bigger if it could be).

[Stonewall]

Documenting PT at an encampment would be an administration nightmare. With between 150 and 300 cadets (depending on what Wing/Region encampment you're considering) doing PT daily, that's an awful lot of paperwork for the admin section. Add to this on a mile run the personnel keeping time don't know names of cadets at the finish line, so record keeping would be spotty at best.

It can and will vary between encampments, mostly due to size/numbers.

At my first encampment we did the "PT Test" which of course was a mile run.  The Tac Officers were responsible for tracking and recording their flight, filled out the time on a single sheet of paper that had the cadet's name, achievement and squadron listed; signed it and turned it in to admin.  When certificats were printed up, they paperclipped it to the certificate to send home with the cadet. 

I really can't see it being that huge of a task.  Later on as a senior, we did it at our encampments.  Again, TACO's were the main force in recording.

[mikeylikey]

^ There is no reason not to have a PT test and send scores home!  Every Cadet Activity should incorporate a PT test either at the beginning or at the end.  Physical Fitness is not supposed to stop because you go to Encampment, or CLS. 

Most likely those wings that don't incorporate the test, just have lazy people running it, or are the "touchy-feely" type that do not want to put "pressure" on a cadet while away from home. 

I always thought that Cadets should have to prove they can pass their PT test if they want to attend any National Activity, even IACE!  How simple would it be to put a section on the 31 that says "SQD CC, did this cadet pass a current PT test, and when?"  I would not accept anything older than 1.5 to 2 months on the PT requirement.

Guess I am "too military".  Here comes the bashing...........

[dwb]

Well, with your argumentative language, it's no wonder you're expecting a bashing! 

I would attribute it to institutional inertia rather than malice.  It is not deemed worth the effort to conduct, score, record, and distribute the CPFT test scores during encampment (or CLS, or whatever).

In fact, it's not really difficult to do, it's just getting out of either the 1. we've always done it this way, or 2. it's too hard mentality.

[BlackKnight]

Get a laptop, load SIMS on it, import the cadet data from CAPWATCH, set their grade (since it isn't part of the CAPWATCH data), assign cadets to flights, and then crank out the master CPFT score sheets.  That can be done before the encampment, takes about 30 minutes. The TAC officers and Cadet Staff record the CPFT results in the field on the master score sheets. Bring the score sheets back to admin and enter the data, all on one page.  Would take about 90 minutes for a decent typist to enter data for 100 cadets. Less if you have several admin cadets using networked computers sharing the same SIMS data file.

The NY Wing has an encampment management program that may have an even better CPFT module than SIMS (which is primarily designed for squadron use).