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SER Winter Encampment

Started by BillB, January 03, 2008, 11:26:51 AM

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BlackKnight

Flyguy, thanks for the clarification. 

Did you notice the purple ranger tab patch above the left shirt pocket, and the double-stacked cloth specialty badges? 

What I find most interesting is not the cadet per se, but how in the heck do you get to be a C/2nd Lt (let alone assigned to region encampment staff) without learning basic wear of the uniform?   It speaks volumes about his home unit. We have a few squadrons like that in my wing. Clueless, apparently because their commanders prefer it that way.   ;)
Phil Boylan, Maj, CAP
DCS, Rome Composite Sqdn - GA043
http://www.romecap.org/

spaatzmom

Is this person in question actually a cadet?  The insignia seems rather rectangular for cadet pips.  And I am having great difficulty in trying to figure out just what wing he is from.  According to the encampment list none of those signed up have a wing patch that remotely matches the picture.

Anyway, I can certainly understand your frustration and overload.  As a parent whose cadet has attended many encampments and activities both as an attendee and staff, I appreciate the efforts of all staff members.  Now that he is a senior member, I see the other side of the organization and he is again going to many events as a staff member.  You often give up your vacations and time you could have spent with your families especially during the holiday, only to come home wondering if it all in the long run was productive and meant anything.  All I can say is thank you and yes your efforts do affect the cadets even if they don't immediately have any results.  Again, thank you very much.

CadetProgramGuy

According to the resst of the posts, he is an Officer, 2nd LT, with very poor judgement according to CAPM 39-1

Stonewall

First, I want to find out if he was a "real army ranger".  If so, great, let's guide him on the wear of CAP uniforms.  If not, let's bust'em for telling people he was.
Serving since 1987.

flyguy06


sarmed1

Point 1-the former PA wing commander put out his own supplement to 39-1 authorizing the wear of "speacialty patches" in place of the wing patch (once the wear went optional) including the SAR patch, as well as i think COS and a few others.  His justification I suppose was he was on the uniform commitee at NHQ so he can do it....however most people follow it because,  "... who questions the wing commander?"  FLWG Ranger types whoe serve on HMRS staff agree to follow the same standards for bling wear as the PAWG counterparts. (...also explains the ranger tab)

POint 2-39-1 does say that leather combat boots are authorized with service dress.  Does not say bloused or not bloused (we all know that unbloused is the intention, and he is likely trying for the "cool" factor) but the leap of faith could include"....since I wear them bloused with BDU's and they are authorized with servic dress....thats how boots are worn)

and before anyone trys to fling the idea out there, never have I heard of any staff member at HMRS telling anyone they can wear their service dress pants bloused with combat boots....

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

mikeylikey

Quote from: Stonewall on January 08, 2008, 10:54:22 AM
First, I want to find out if he was a "real army ranger".  If so, great, let's guide him on the wear of CAP uniforms.  If not, let's bust'em for telling people he was.

YES! 

Quote from: sarmed1 on January 08, 2008, 07:12:15 PM
Point 1-the former PA wing commander put out his own supplement to 39-1 authorizing the wear of "specialty patches" in place of the wing patch (once the wear went optional) including the SAR patch, as well as i think COS and a few others.  His justification I suppose was he was on the uniform committee at NHQ so he can do it....however most people follow it because,  "... who questions the wing commander?"  FLWG Ranger types WHO serve on HMRS staff agree to follow the same standards for bling wear as the PAWG counterparts. (...also explains the ranger tab)

He was NOT on the Uniform Committee.  He just wanted the "Rangers" to have something to differentiate themselves from everyone else.  Heck, the guy had HMRS staff wearing metal rank on the Covers two years previous.  The guy is a HUGE Ranger fan, and started a campaign to get TP to mandate Orange baseball hats for the entire organization.  I say this is one reason why Wing Kings should NOT be allowed to make additions or deletions to 39-1!

Quote from: flyguy06 on January 08, 2008, 04:27:06 PM
Here is the video we showed at the Dining In


Does that C/COL know how to shave?  Good music BTW! 
What's up monkeys?

flyguy06

Quote from: sarmed1 on January 08, 2008, 07:12:15 PM
Point 1-the former PA wing commander put out his own supplement to 39-1 authorizing the wear of "speacialty patches" in place of the wing patch (once the wear went optional) including the SAR patch, as well as i think COS and a few others.  His justification I suppose was he was on the uniform commitee at NHQ so he can do it....however most people follow it because,  "... who questions the wing commander?"  FLWG Ranger types whoe serve on HMRS staff agree to follow the same standards for bling wear as the PAWG counterparts. (...also explains the ranger tab)

POint 2-39-1 does say that leather combat boots are authorized with service dress.  Does not say bloused or not bloused (we all know that unbloused is the intention, and he is likely trying for the "cool" factor) but the leap of faith could include"....since I wear them bloused with BDU's and they are authorized with servic dress....thats how boots are worn)

and before anyone trys to fling the idea out there, never have I heard of any staff member at HMRS telling anyone they can wear their service dress pants bloused with combat boots....

mk


I think there is a misunderstanding so let me correct it. I dont know anything about a Hawk Mountain ranger. This guy was telling us he was a REAL U.S. Army ranger. he said he was in 3rd Batt. That was his justification for blouseing his boots. You guys are taking this wayyy out of porportion. He was perpertrating himself as a REAL ARMY Ranger and its as simple as that

flyguy06


[/quote] 


Does that C/COL know how to shave?  Good music BTW! 

[/quote]

I agree but I was told its the Cadets Encampment and he ws the head guy so I stayed out of it. Again, this goes to my vent which will be forthcomming

thp

Quote from: BillB on January 03, 2008, 11:26:51 AM(0600 PT ??)
That would be nice, at Texas Wing Encampment we had to get up at 0500 and were outside and starting PT at 0505...

Stonewall

Quote from: sarmed1 on January 08, 2008, 07:12:15 PM
Point 1-the former PA wing commander put out his own supplement to 39-1 authorizing the wear of "speacialty patches" in place of the wing patch (once the wear went optional) including the SAR patch, as well as i think COS and a few others.  His justification I suppose was he was on the uniform commitee at NHQ so he can do it....however most people follow it because,  "... who questions the wing commander?"  FLWG Ranger types whoe serve on HMRS staff agree to follow the same standards for bling wear as the PAWG counterparts. (...also explains the ranger tab)

FLWG is one of the wings that require the wear of the wing patch.  I didn't know a 2d Lt could blow off what a wing commander directed.

Quote from: sarmed1 on January 08, 2008, 07:12:15 PMPOint 2-39-1 does say that leather combat boots are authorized with service dress.  Does not say bloused or not bloused (we all know that unbloused is the intention, and he is likely trying for the "cool" factor) but the leap of faith could include"....since I wear them bloused with BDU's and they are authorized with servic dress....thats how boots are worn)

and before anyone trys to fling the idea out there, never have I heard of any staff member at HMRS telling anyone they can wear their service dress pants bloused with combat boots....

mk

Yep, but as FlyGuy says, this 2d Lt says he was a 3rd BN Ranger.  Great, if that's the case, then CAP can benefit from his military service.  But being a Ranger doesn't mean much more than a former cook, intel analyst, or special forces guy joining the ranks of CAP.  Sure, he can offer leadership, some field skills that may correlate to ground team stuff, or even drill & ceremonies; but even being a combat veteran does not give you the right to blow of 39-1 and do things "your way".

I'm not a fan of wearing the FLWG patch, but I wear it, grudgingly.  I'm not better than 39-1 and neither is a 3rd BN Ranger.
Serving since 1987.

BlackKnight

Quote from: flyguy06 on January 08, 2008, 08:32:52 PM
... This guy was telling us he was a REAL U.S. Army ranger. he said he was in 3rd Batt. That was his justification for blouseing his boots. You guys are taking this wayyy out of porportion. He was perpertrating himself as a REAL ARMY Ranger and its as simple as that

This just gets better and better.  If he was a REAL U.S. Army Ranger, what's he still doing in a CAP Cadet Uniform?

CAPR 35-3
3. Causes To Terminate Cadet Membership:
a. Automatic Loss of Membership:

(3) Joining the active duty Armed Forces. The term "active duty Armed Forces" does not include members in the National Guard or Reserves who are not on extended active duty.


Phil Boylan, Maj, CAP
DCS, Rome Composite Sqdn - GA043
http://www.romecap.org/

Stonewall

Quote from: BlackKnight on January 09, 2008, 02:52:31 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on January 08, 2008, 08:32:52 PM
... This guy was telling us he was a REAL U.S. Army ranger. he said he was in 3rd Batt. That was his justification for blouseing his boots. You guys are taking this wayyy out of porportion. He was perpertrating himself as a REAL ARMY Ranger and its as simple as that

This just gets better and better.  If he was a REAL U.S. Army Ranger, what's he still doing in a CAP Cadet Uniform?

CAPR 35-3
3. Causes To Terminate Cadet Membership:
a. Automatic Loss of Membership:

(3) Joining the active duty Armed Forces. The term "active duty Armed Forces" does not include members in the National Guard or Reserves who are not on extended active duty.

What is he wearing that says he's a cadet?  He's wearing a gold BAR, not a gold or silver pip.  That was part of the original discussion "why is he wearing pin-on rank instead of sew-on".
Serving since 1987.

Maj Ballard

Is this the same guy I saw at Pass in Review wearing blank gray epaulets?
L. Ballard, Major, CAP

Stonewall

Quote from: Capt Ballard on January 09, 2008, 03:01:09 PM
Is this the same guy I saw at Pass in Review wearing blank gray epaulets?

If so, according to FlyGuy he would have been in blues with his pants bloused over his boots.
Serving since 1987.

Maj Ballard

Oh. I assumed that was at the banquet or something. I didn't see anyone with bloused blues on Saturday.
L. Ballard, Major, CAP

Stonewall

Quote from: Capt Ballard on January 09, 2008, 03:07:52 PM
Oh. I assumed that was at the banquet or something. I didn't see anyone with bloused blues on Saturday.

Could have been, I don't know for sure.  I tried to make it to graduation/pass in review, but I just came off a night of work and couldn't bring myself to wake up.  Would have been a safety hazard on the road anyway.
Serving since 1987.

BillB

With one person having so many apparent uniform violations why didn't the Encampment Command line do something to correct the violations. How can the Senior staff members be an example to cadets if their uniforms are not according to the regulations?
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Maj Ballard

Quote from: BillB on January 09, 2008, 03:17:34 PM
With one person having so many apparent uniform violations why didn't the Encampment Command line do something to correct the violations. How can the Senior staff members be an example to cadets if their uniforms are not according to the regulations?

*snicker* Do you really have to ask that, Bill?
L. Ballard, Major, CAP

Stonewall

Quote from: BillB on January 09, 2008, 03:17:34 PM
With one person having so many apparent uniform violations why didn't the Encampment Command line do something to correct the violations. How can the Senior staff members be an example to cadets if their uniforms are not according to the regulations?

I see this a lot in CAP, younger senior members working with cadets and often not setting the right example.  The 2d Lt in question looks fairly young.  Even if he just got out of the army after 4 years, he could be as young as 21.  Although it's something very difficult to control and often times we don't even have an option, but I've always felt that younger senior members should not work directly with cadets or at least without other "adult supervision".  It takes a while to mature and to truly grasp the regs sometimes.  Even if they understand the regs, a younger senior may not realize that they're there for a reason and blow'em off.

Hey, I was a young <21 senior member and former cadet officer.  I was always under direct supervision for a few years until I learned enough to do the right thing, especially with cadets.  Even with some top notch seniors looking over my shoulder, I still managed to make some dumb mistakes and make a fool of myself around cadets.  Important thing is I learned my lessons.  Hopefully this young [hooah] lieutanant does the same.
Serving since 1987.