Traveling in Blues?

[jimmydeanno]

So...people are wearing the CAP uniform, breaking the law and hoping that when they are cited for the violation, the officer pulling them over will confuse them with military personnel and let them off?...did I get that right?

[DeputyDog]

So...people are wearing the CAP uniform, breaking the law and hoping that when they are cited for the violation, the officer pulling them over will confuse them with military personnel and let them off?...did I get that right?

No, you got it wrong. I never expected to be let off for it. You are misreading what was said.

Goes a long way if you get pulled over.

I was relating a story that was the opposite of that.

[RiverAux]

So...people are wearing the CAP uniform, breaking the law and hoping that when they are cited for the violation, the officer pulling them over will confuse them with military personnel and let them off?...did I get that right?

Just who exactly said that?

[jimmydeanno]

Now driving to/from activities, I always do that in uniform. Goes a long way if you get pulled over.

Got pulled over for speeding in blues after a wing conference one year.  Didn't help a bit.

Same thing happened to me. Got nailed in a speed trap going 15 over (it was a 50 down to a 35 zone after dropping from 60 less than 100 yards before). The officer asked me if I was in the military after he gave me the citation.

No one specifically said it, but the quotes above give the implication that the person who gets pulled over was/is expecting some sort of special treatment due to their wearing a uniform.  Just an observation.

[thp]

I read (haven't found it again yet), that they don't like it when you wear an AF style uniform (blues, camo BDUs, etc.) on public transportation, but they don't mind if you wear a CAP specific uniform (golf shirt, field uniform, utility uniform, blazer, etc.).

[Slim]

Listen.....how many domestic flights have been hi jacked and U.S. military personnel singled out for additional abuse?

I have heard that argument for the last 22 years and it is a total crock.   The bad guys are either targeting you specifically....in which case it does not matter what you wear, they will get you...or it is totally random and again it does not matter.

Second....it is not stealing thunder when you don't seek it. 

If you want to travel in blues to a CAP event....do it!

So you're saying that my spin on not wanting to draw attention to myself when travelling isn't valid?  Just because it's a crock and never happened? 

Would any of the 9/11 hijackers not given a second's thought to taking a boxcutter to someone wearing a military uniform?  Do you really think any of those passengers got up that morning and gave any consideration to what might happen to them later that day?  What's the Air Force policy on traveling commercial while on orders or official business?  As I recall, the reason the Army loosened it's travel restrictions was for the convenience of soldiers returning from the 'box without appropriate civilian clothes, and/or proper facilities to change.

Heck, look at 9/11 itself.  Do you really think that the country's leadership looked at each other at some point prior to that day and said "Planes flying into the WTC and Pentagon?"  "Naw, it'll never happen, so why plan for it."

In the weeks after 9/11, while supporting CG maritime security missions, we (and all CG/CGAux members) were under orders from the sector commander to travel to/from the stations and sector office in civilian clothes, and change once we got there.  Was there a specific threat to any of us at that time?  No, but why take a chance?

Sorry, Pat, but your "It's never happened before, so it's a crock" dog ain't hunting.

Oh, by the way.  I'm very very uncomfortable with people approaching me in uniform and thanking me for my service.  I'm proud of the service I do, and I thank them back.  But, there's still a part of me who feels guilty for taking something I'm not truly entitled to, in the spirit that it was offered.

[RiverAux]

Yes, to some extent your security concerns are overblown, but if you don't want to travel in blues for that or other reasons, thats fine by me. 

Overblown?  Yes, because you're actually probably a better target once you've reached your designation and are together with a whole lot of other unarmed people, including kids, in uniform. 

No one specifically said it, but the quotes above give the implication that the person who gets pulled over was/is expecting some sort of special treatment due to their wearing a uniform.  Just an observation.

Nope, just reporting the fact that being in uniform made absolutely no difference in whether or not I got a ticket.  Wasn't expecting it and frankly, neither should anyone else who is in uniform whether they're CAP or AF.  If they broke the law, they should get a ticket. 

[lordmonar]

I read (haven't found it again yet), that they don't like it when you wear an AF style uniform (blues, camo BDUs, etc.) on public transportation, but they don't mind if you wear a CAP specific uniform (golf shirt, field uniform, utility uniform, blazer, etc.).

Who are "they"?  Check 39-1.

[lordmonar]

Slim,

My point is that not wearing blues due to security concerns is not really that likely of a scenario.

Sure....IF your plane gets hijacked or the airport is hit while you are there in uniform you MAY be come a better target of opportunity.......but that is like saying if you wear a hard hat 24/7 you are better protected from falling satellite parts.

USAF policy is to ENCOURAGE officers and SNCO's to travel on domestic flights in blues on or off orders.

If wearing uniforms acts as a deter ant to terrorism then that is just another reason to wear the uniform.

And the "it has never happened so it is a crock" is a valid argument.  Security types over blow the threat.  They always have and always will because just like safety they try to live in a zero defect world.

But just like safety....you can take it too far.  And the "No uniforms on domestic flights makes you safer" is one of those instances.

As far as accepting praise for others service....I understand....but again....you are overstating the case.  If you discourage CAP members from wearing their uniform because they may "steal" some praise from "deserving solders" then you tell everyone AD/GUARD/RESERVE who has not served in the way the public may be thanking you no to ever wear their uniform.

Wearing your uniform gives you a chance to advertise CAP.  If someone thanks you for "your service" you say thank you and maybe take the opportunity to explain who CAP is and what we do. 

[DNall]

Now driving to/from activities, I always do that in uniform. Goes a long way if you get pulled over.

Got pulled over for speeding in blues after a wing conference one year.  Didn't help a bit.

Same thing happened to me. Got nailed in a speed trap going 15 over (it was a 50 down to a 35 zone after dropping from 60 less than 100 yards before). The officer asked me if I was in the military after he gave me the citation.

No one specifically said it, but the quotes above give the implication that the person who gets pulled over was/is expecting some sort of special treatment due to their wearing a uniform.  Just an observation.

I am in the military. The reality is we spend a lot of money training soldiers & excessive traffic violations effect security clearances, which in turn can put that investment at risk.

I'd rather have an officer call me about one of my troops than issue a ticket. I can make them pay in ways worse than a fine, and avoid stacking up criminal charges that can be an issue later. Personally, I'd much rather pay the fine than have those kinds of calls go to my superiors. You can think that's wrong if you want. It's kind of the unofficial policy we tell our soldiers though, and that comes from higher, not me, but I happen to agree with it.

Regardless if it's CAP or the military, I wouldn't call it a demand for special treatment. I'd call it more of an unspoken request for leniancy on the part of someone in the act of performing a major public service.

[Major Carrales]

I traveled to Atlanta, Ga for the PAO academy in my blues.  I had none of the issues of discomfort or disheveled appearance.  I meet John Kach while he was waiting for a flight from Toledo, Ohio to his home in Florida.  It was like a dream.

I have some pics I will get developed.

[Stonewall]

Just found this in my CAP file and I'm not sure where I got sot it.  So, to whomever deserves credit, the credit is yours...

[Flying Pig]

I would only encourage CAP cadets not to travel in uniform because they are minors, and being in a "military" uniform may place them in a situation they may not be equipped to deal with because of age, experience, etc.   When I was in the military I always traveled in my Marine "Alpha's"  which is the green service coat.  Every time I traveled, I was always targeted for some scam, somebody wanting to borrow money.  "Hey buddy....can you help out a vet....my ATM card isnt working, can you loan me $10."  About 1 year ago, I swa two Army guys in their Class A's getting hammered by a guy wanting to borrow money.....the soldiers each gave the guy $20 and their addresses and he "swore" he would mail them the money when he got home....

[Tubacap]

Kind of a sidebar, but what is the general feeling of Blues being worn to Community events?  I had a cadet that wanted to wear his blues to an Veterans Day event that the squadron had an honor guard at.  He was not part of the honor guard, and didn't have a complete uniform, so I told him no, but I'm torn between letting my cadets, and for that matter officers wear their uniforms at the event if they are not supporting the function.

Thoughts?

[MIKE]

Well, since his uniform was not complete you made the right call.  For others who might want to participate in some way you might consider letting them mingle with the crowd in uniform with some recruiting information to hand out.

[DNall]

I generally think uniforms at community events are a good thing. Keeping in mind they need to be complete/squared away, and that you're going to get hammered with conversation/recruiting opportunities. But, I'd caution that you make extra certain there are not political overtones. A political rally of course owuld be out, but even a lot of the normal community evetns around here have major political implications, at least to the savy, and you want to be careful about appearing to give support or expressing too much of your own opinions while in uniform & seeming to represent CAP & the AF. I think a lot of times it's not appropriate for a cadet to make that call on their own, so I prefer they ask first.

Far as cadets travelling in uniform...

I would only encourage CAP cadets not to travel in uniform because they are minors, and being in a "military" uniform may place them in a situation they may not be equipped to deal with because of age, experience, etc.  

I gave that a little thought. I hadn't previously had a problem with it. The security & other concerns raised are not real issues to me.

However, a couple Army Sgts I know have had the issue in a certain liberal city a couple hours from here of being spit on & called names a few months ago. I've never had anything but kind treatment anywhere I go in uniform, and that's almost everyday. But honestly, if someone spits on me in uniform I can't absolutely swear I won't knock them out. It'd be a real leadership failure on my part if I allowed a minor-cadet to be put in that kind of situation. That's something I'll have to keep in mind for future decisions. As long as they're supervised though, I'm still going to encourage public wear of the uniform.

[PA Guy]

I have a question. When traveling to a NCSA; is it permitted for a cadet to travel via commercial airlines in their Air Force Blues Uniform?

Since we have wandered all over the globe with this I think we should return to the original question.  The bottom line is that the NCSA activity director will/should indicate travel attire.  This may vary from activity to activity so follow the directions for your specific NCSA.  If the question isn't addressed, ask it.  If the activity director says wear a uniform wear it, if they say wear civilian clothes wear those.

[DNall]

^ granted, but that almost never happens, at least for the trip there. It usually comes to a decision by the participant, who MAY ask for guidance from their leadership if they aren't sure or you've led them to believe it's SOP to ask first. Just backgrounding the issues to consider in making such decisions.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I have a question. When traveling to a NCSA; is it permitted for a cadet to travel via commercial airlines in their Air Force Blues Uniform?

Since we have wandered all over the globe with this I think we should return to the original question.  The bottom line is that the NCSA activity director will/should indicate travel attire.  This may vary from activity to activity so follow the directions for your specific NCSA.  If the question isn't addressed, ask it.  If the activity director says wear a uniform wear it, if they say wear civilian clothes wear those.

For NBB, since no blues are allowed, only BDU's the past several project officers mandate travel in Civilian Clothes when on Bus or airlines.

[Sleepwalker]

My son and I travel every year to our home state for Encampment every year, and the only way we can fit everything in our bags it to wear our "Class A" blues on the plane.  The only time I ever had trouble was when the X-ray conveyor at airport security knocked off my green "Unit Citation" ribbon (never to be seen again).  Other than that, for four round-trip flights we never had a problem.