Traveling in Blues?

[skippytim]

I have a question. When traveling to a NCSA; is it permitted for a cadet to travel via commercial airlines in their Air Force Blues Uniform?

[lordmonar]

may wear service dress uniform or light blue, short or long sleeve shirt/blouse with tie/tab and the all-weather coat, overcoat, and
raincoat when traveling by commercial means (other than to and from local CAP activities) (see note 2).

[PA Guy]

Yes, it is permitted but I wouldn't recommend it.

[lordmonar]

Yes, it is permitted but I wouldn't recommend it.

Why not?

[Stonewall]

In 1987 I flew up to DC to stay with my grandparents for week then my sister for a week.  G'parents were at Ft. Myer and sister was at Ft. Meade.  I loved the DC area for it's military atmosphere so I wanted to look the part.  As goofy as it may seem, I wore my short-sleeve blues on the plane up to BWI.

I didn't ask permission, check a reg or care about getting in trouble.  Then, I wore my blues to the Twilight Tattoo the Old Guard put on on the Elipse, Sunset Parade the USMC put on and then a retirement ceremony up at Ft. Ritchie (now Ft. Detrick).  Oh, and did I mention that I wore it to the Pentagon to have lunch with my uncle?

Yep, I was that guy.  I flew commercially in my blues, took the metro, and attended a whole bunch of military ceremonies, all in my blues.

As an adult member, would I do all that now?  Only if it was relevant to CAP.   If you want to do it, do it!

[O-Rex]

I always hated traveling in uniform when I was in the Army: not for image or security, just the fact that I'm spending all day rumpling a uniform that I'd probably have to wear at my destination.

Nowadays, flying commercial is more of a PITA than ever: if you are going to be bumped, delayed and finally packed like sardines when you do get your flight, you may as well be comfortable.

Save the blues for your destination.

[PA Guy]

Yes, it is permitted but I wouldn't recommend it.

Why not?

Mostly because you will probably arrive looking like a rag bag and with all the metal pinned to the uniform it will slow you down at the security checkpoint.  Spill something on the uniform and you are stuck with it to your final destination. I personally don't like the attention it invites especially if the uniform isn't squared away and stain free. Just my personal opinion/preference

[IceNine]

 The one time I flew in blues was headed to an NCSA, when I got on-board the Flight attendant said that the Capt. had requested to see "the gentlemen in Blues".  I got to go up and talk with the flight crew a while they showed me around and I got bumped into first class.

At which point my cares of looking like dookey when I got off the plane kinda fleeted

This was however pre-911

[Stonewall]

I agree with O-Rex and PA Guy.  My experience above was as a cadet and wayyyy pre-9/11.  Not to mention, I wasn't as consious of my appearance as I am now.  I didn't know enough to care as a 14 year old that my uniform got wrinkled and shoes skuffed up by sitting around.

As a military member, Army and Air Force, I have yet to ever travel commercially in my uniform, EVER.

Given the option, I wouldn't.  Heck, I've got like 500K frequent flyer miles between 2001 and 2006 and I wouldn't even wear a suit unless I came directly from a mission where I couldn't change.  But then I'd have a change of comfy clothes in my carry-on so when we got airborne I'd change.  I learned my lesson on a long 10+ flight from Brazil to DC when all I had was my suit.  Dern that was uncomfortable.  Even in First Class  

[Stonewall]

The one time I flew in blues was headed to an NCSA, when I got on-board the Flight attendant said that the Capt. had requested to see "the gentlemen in Blues".  I got to go up and talk with the flight crew a while they showed me around and I got bumped into first class.

Dude!  Same thing happened with me in my above story as a cadet.  I got on the plane and the hottie flight attendant came to me and escorted me to the cockpit.  Pilot had been a cadet in CAP and former military pilot.  Totally hooked me up and let me sit in that back seat for a while while in flight.  Yep, way pre-9/11.  I wish times were still like that.  I think a lot of our cadets miss out because of that POS Osama and all the folks wishing to me Allah.

[Cecil DP]

before wearing the uniform ask yourself a few questions.

1. Am I traveling in an official capacity? If not no reason to wear it.

2. How long am I going to wear this uniform? Between traveling to the airport, going through TSA and actual flight time, and than the ride to the destination you could be wearing the uniform for 8 or more hours.

3. Am I going to wear the uniform at the activity? If so is there a laundry/dry cleaner with 24 hour turn around service. If not do I have time/opportunity to wash, iron, press the uniform?

4. Do I have a spare uniform? Most Special activities (Cadet and Senior) last a week. Can you spare 1 uniform if not able to get to a cleaner or laundry?

[RiverAux]

I can't imagine spending all day sprinting through airports trying to make my next flight, scrunching into airplane seats, etc. wearing my blues.  I know a lot of businessmen basically do that all the time, but they more or less have to.  Heck, I don't even like to wear my work uniform (think golf shirt) when I'm flying since it might get me sucked into unwanted conversations. 

[Al Sayre]

I've had to do it a few times when I was in the Navy.  I had to make connecting flights between the DOD contract carrier (which required me to be in uniform) and the civilian airlines and didn't have time to change between flights.  It wasn't too bad, I was generally treated pretty well, and the bars wouldn't take my money... of course the Navy "Crackerjacks" are not all that uncomfortable, and didn't wrinkle too badly.

[masamuel2]

I have a question. When traveling to a NCSA; is it permitted for a cadet to travel via commercial airlines in their Air Force Blues Uniform?

I have been working NCSAs for a few years and I always tell the cadets to wear civilian clothes on travel days.  There is usually no need for them to be in uniform when they arrive.  As mentioned before, the metal creates a problem getting through security and the uniform doesn't look very sharp by the time they arrive.  The Activity Director should tell the cadets what to wear for the travel days, and most likely they will tell them not to wear their uniform.

[DNall]

When I fly for the Army, it's always in ACUs. Which is a bit wierd, but we wear those things for everything now. That's comfortable & less to worry about getting dirty or ending up sloppy. Good for the express lane at security & universal upgrade to first class. Plus...

I was generally treated pretty well, and the bars wouldn't take my money...

Sometimes I'll change shirts on the other end if I feel like I need to look especially squared away, but I don't think it makes a lot of difference with those things, they just look so sloppy to me versus what we could do with BDUs. I probably would not fly in class Bs if given the choice.

For CAP, I wouldn't fly in blues. Not that you couldn't but it's inconvenient. Especially in CAP when you probably only have the one set of blues, rather than a set to change into when you get there & another set for later in the weelk.

Now driving to/from activities, I always do that in uniform. Goes a long way if you get pulled over. Plus, here in town the toll road is free if in uniform travelling on official business. That covers lunch for the price of one round trip even to the nearest other Sqs.

[RiverAux]

Now driving to/from activities, I always do that in uniform. Goes a long way if you get pulled over.

Got pulled over for speeding in blues after a wing conference one year.  Didn't help a bit.  (Speed trap in tiny little burg -- but legit -- I wasn't paying close enough attention).

[Slim]

Appearance and comfort not withstanding, the one issue I haven't seen mentioned is PERSEC (personal security).  Honestly, when I travel by air, I do as much as I can not to draw too much attention to myself.

Being in uniform makes you a target for a lot more than just free drinks and a chat with the flight crew while boarding.  Even during these times where support for our troops is at a high, there are still a few idiots here and there who would look at a uniform and call you a baby-killer, or some other way of reliving their parents protests from the 60s-70s.  Do you think such and idiot is going to care that you don't kill babies, you search for them?  Or worse, something happens during your flight and everyone turns to you because you're wearing our nation's uniform.  Or, really really bad things happen, and some terrorist decides that anyone in a uniform has to go first.

Here's something else to consider.  A few years back, I was traveling from Detroit to Tucson, with a two hour layover in Dallas.  While eating in one of the food courts, a plane pulls up and unloads.  Three people in ACUs get off the plane, and everyone within sight gives them a standing ovation, which left them all looking a little uncomfortable.  They came over, got something to eat, and sat down at the next table, so I engaged in a little conversation with them.  I asked if they were just getting back from the 'box, and one of them (an SSG, IIRC) says "No, but we're going soon."  He then went on to comment that-while they appreciate the support and sentiment-they were really starting to get uncomfortable with it.  My point is that this could just as easily be a CAP member, and an unsuspecting public; don't steal their thunder.

[lordmonar]

Listen.....how many domestic flights have been hi jacked and U.S. military personnel singled out for additional abuse?

I have heard that argument for the last 22 years and it is a total crock.   The bad guys are either targeting you specifically....in which case it does not matter what you wear, they will get you...or it is totally random and again it does not matter.

Second....it is not stealing thunder when you don't seek it. 

If you want to travel in blues to a CAP event....do it!

[COL Land]

A slightly different spin on this from the ACA's perspective...

Our insurance carrier only covers ACA personnel while wearing a designated "uniform."   Now, before folks go crazy, that uniform need not always be a military uniform.   For example:

   a.  Military Cadets of Podunk is traveling to the Fort Stewart museum.   The Company Commander can designate the Uniform of the Day as PT gear for travel.   Remember, we have consistent PT gear corps-wide, so that means everyone looks alike.

   b.  Army Cadets of the Backwoods is traveling at unit-strength to Annual Training.   Everyone can travel in Civilian Alternative (ACA Polo Shirt and khaki slacks), rather than Class "B."

   c.  C/PFC Smith is traveling someplace on orders independently by commercial air.   At this point, he is required to wear (a) Civilian Alternative, (b) Class "B" or (c) Civilian clothes, but is not covered by insurance.   

The Army's approach is all of this is a bit foreign to this ol' traditional (former) Sailor, in that Soldiers indeed do wear ACUs for just about anything and everything, including travel.   We do not currently permit our Cadets to travel as such, and are rethinking the above policies.   Regardless of what we might decide programmatically, the insurance carrier is the grand authority on this issue (for us, at least).

Respectfully,

[DeputyDog]

Now driving to/from activities, I always do that in uniform. Goes a long way if you get pulled over.

Got pulled over for speeding in blues after a wing conference one year.  Didn't help a bit.  (Speed trap in tiny little burg -- but legit -- I wasn't paying close enough attention).

Same thing happened to me. Got nailed in a speed trap going 15 over (it was a 50 down to a 35 zone after dropping from 60 less than 100 yards before). The officer asked me if I was in the military after he gave me the citation.

[jimmydeanno]

So...people are wearing the CAP uniform, breaking the law and hoping that when they are cited for the violation, the officer pulling them over will confuse them with military personnel and let them off?...did I get that right?

[DeputyDog]

So...people are wearing the CAP uniform, breaking the law and hoping that when they are cited for the violation, the officer pulling them over will confuse them with military personnel and let them off?...did I get that right?

No, you got it wrong. I never expected to be let off for it. You are misreading what was said.

Goes a long way if you get pulled over.

I was relating a story that was the opposite of that.

[RiverAux]

So...people are wearing the CAP uniform, breaking the law and hoping that when they are cited for the violation, the officer pulling them over will confuse them with military personnel and let them off?...did I get that right?

Just who exactly said that?

[jimmydeanno]

Now driving to/from activities, I always do that in uniform. Goes a long way if you get pulled over.

Got pulled over for speeding in blues after a wing conference one year.  Didn't help a bit.

Same thing happened to me. Got nailed in a speed trap going 15 over (it was a 50 down to a 35 zone after dropping from 60 less than 100 yards before). The officer asked me if I was in the military after he gave me the citation.

No one specifically said it, but the quotes above give the implication that the person who gets pulled over was/is expecting some sort of special treatment due to their wearing a uniform.  Just an observation.

[thp]

I read (haven't found it again yet), that they don't like it when you wear an AF style uniform (blues, camo BDUs, etc.) on public transportation, but they don't mind if you wear a CAP specific uniform (golf shirt, field uniform, utility uniform, blazer, etc.).

[Slim]

Listen.....how many domestic flights have been hi jacked and U.S. military personnel singled out for additional abuse?

I have heard that argument for the last 22 years and it is a total crock.   The bad guys are either targeting you specifically....in which case it does not matter what you wear, they will get you...or it is totally random and again it does not matter.

Second....it is not stealing thunder when you don't seek it. 

If you want to travel in blues to a CAP event....do it!

So you're saying that my spin on not wanting to draw attention to myself when travelling isn't valid?  Just because it's a crock and never happened? 

Would any of the 9/11 hijackers not given a second's thought to taking a boxcutter to someone wearing a military uniform?  Do you really think any of those passengers got up that morning and gave any consideration to what might happen to them later that day?  What's the Air Force policy on traveling commercial while on orders or official business?  As I recall, the reason the Army loosened it's travel restrictions was for the convenience of soldiers returning from the 'box without appropriate civilian clothes, and/or proper facilities to change.

Heck, look at 9/11 itself.  Do you really think that the country's leadership looked at each other at some point prior to that day and said "Planes flying into the WTC and Pentagon?"  "Naw, it'll never happen, so why plan for it."

In the weeks after 9/11, while supporting CG maritime security missions, we (and all CG/CGAux members) were under orders from the sector commander to travel to/from the stations and sector office in civilian clothes, and change once we got there.  Was there a specific threat to any of us at that time?  No, but why take a chance?

Sorry, Pat, but your "It's never happened before, so it's a crock" dog ain't hunting.

Oh, by the way.  I'm very very uncomfortable with people approaching me in uniform and thanking me for my service.  I'm proud of the service I do, and I thank them back.  But, there's still a part of me who feels guilty for taking something I'm not truly entitled to, in the spirit that it was offered.

[RiverAux]

Yes, to some extent your security concerns are overblown, but if you don't want to travel in blues for that or other reasons, thats fine by me. 

Overblown?  Yes, because you're actually probably a better target once you've reached your designation and are together with a whole lot of other unarmed people, including kids, in uniform. 

No one specifically said it, but the quotes above give the implication that the person who gets pulled over was/is expecting some sort of special treatment due to their wearing a uniform.  Just an observation.

Nope, just reporting the fact that being in uniform made absolutely no difference in whether or not I got a ticket.  Wasn't expecting it and frankly, neither should anyone else who is in uniform whether they're CAP or AF.  If they broke the law, they should get a ticket. 

[lordmonar]

I read (haven't found it again yet), that they don't like it when you wear an AF style uniform (blues, camo BDUs, etc.) on public transportation, but they don't mind if you wear a CAP specific uniform (golf shirt, field uniform, utility uniform, blazer, etc.).

Who are "they"?  Check 39-1.

[lordmonar]

Slim,

My point is that not wearing blues due to security concerns is not really that likely of a scenario.

Sure....IF your plane gets hijacked or the airport is hit while you are there in uniform you MAY be come a better target of opportunity.......but that is like saying if you wear a hard hat 24/7 you are better protected from falling satellite parts.

USAF policy is to ENCOURAGE officers and SNCO's to travel on domestic flights in blues on or off orders.

If wearing uniforms acts as a deter ant to terrorism then that is just another reason to wear the uniform.

And the "it has never happened so it is a crock" is a valid argument.  Security types over blow the threat.  They always have and always will because just like safety they try to live in a zero defect world.

But just like safety....you can take it too far.  And the "No uniforms on domestic flights makes you safer" is one of those instances.

As far as accepting praise for others service....I understand....but again....you are overstating the case.  If you discourage CAP members from wearing their uniform because they may "steal" some praise from "deserving solders" then you tell everyone AD/GUARD/RESERVE who has not served in the way the public may be thanking you no to ever wear their uniform.

Wearing your uniform gives you a chance to advertise CAP.  If someone thanks you for "your service" you say thank you and maybe take the opportunity to explain who CAP is and what we do. 

[DNall]

Now driving to/from activities, I always do that in uniform. Goes a long way if you get pulled over.

Got pulled over for speeding in blues after a wing conference one year.  Didn't help a bit.

Same thing happened to me. Got nailed in a speed trap going 15 over (it was a 50 down to a 35 zone after dropping from 60 less than 100 yards before). The officer asked me if I was in the military after he gave me the citation.

No one specifically said it, but the quotes above give the implication that the person who gets pulled over was/is expecting some sort of special treatment due to their wearing a uniform.  Just an observation.

I am in the military. The reality is we spend a lot of money training soldiers & excessive traffic violations effect security clearances, which in turn can put that investment at risk.

I'd rather have an officer call me about one of my troops than issue a ticket. I can make them pay in ways worse than a fine, and avoid stacking up criminal charges that can be an issue later. Personally, I'd much rather pay the fine than have those kinds of calls go to my superiors. You can think that's wrong if you want. It's kind of the unofficial policy we tell our soldiers though, and that comes from higher, not me, but I happen to agree with it.

Regardless if it's CAP or the military, I wouldn't call it a demand for special treatment. I'd call it more of an unspoken request for leniancy on the part of someone in the act of performing a major public service.

[Major Carrales]

I traveled to Atlanta, Ga for the PAO academy in my blues.  I had none of the issues of discomfort or disheveled appearance.  I meet John Kach while he was waiting for a flight from Toledo, Ohio to his home in Florida.  It was like a dream.

I have some pics I will get developed.

[Stonewall]

Just found this in my CAP file and I'm not sure where I got sot it.  So, to whomever deserves credit, the credit is yours...

[Flying Pig]

I would only encourage CAP cadets not to travel in uniform because they are minors, and being in a "military" uniform may place them in a situation they may not be equipped to deal with because of age, experience, etc.   When I was in the military I always traveled in my Marine "Alpha's"  which is the green service coat.  Every time I traveled, I was always targeted for some scam, somebody wanting to borrow money.  "Hey buddy....can you help out a vet....my ATM card isnt working, can you loan me $10."  About 1 year ago, I swa two Army guys in their Class A's getting hammered by a guy wanting to borrow money.....the soldiers each gave the guy $20 and their addresses and he "swore" he would mail them the money when he got home....

[Tubacap]

Kind of a sidebar, but what is the general feeling of Blues being worn to Community events?  I had a cadet that wanted to wear his blues to an Veterans Day event that the squadron had an honor guard at.  He was not part of the honor guard, and didn't have a complete uniform, so I told him no, but I'm torn between letting my cadets, and for that matter officers wear their uniforms at the event if they are not supporting the function.

Thoughts?

[MIKE]

Well, since his uniform was not complete you made the right call.  For others who might want to participate in some way you might consider letting them mingle with the crowd in uniform with some recruiting information to hand out.

[DNall]

I generally think uniforms at community events are a good thing. Keeping in mind they need to be complete/squared away, and that you're going to get hammered with conversation/recruiting opportunities. But, I'd caution that you make extra certain there are not political overtones. A political rally of course owuld be out, but even a lot of the normal community evetns around here have major political implications, at least to the savy, and you want to be careful about appearing to give support or expressing too much of your own opinions while in uniform & seeming to represent CAP & the AF. I think a lot of times it's not appropriate for a cadet to make that call on their own, so I prefer they ask first.

Far as cadets travelling in uniform...

I would only encourage CAP cadets not to travel in uniform because they are minors, and being in a "military" uniform may place them in a situation they may not be equipped to deal with because of age, experience, etc.  

I gave that a little thought. I hadn't previously had a problem with it. The security & other concerns raised are not real issues to me.

However, a couple Army Sgts I know have had the issue in a certain liberal city a couple hours from here of being spit on & called names a few months ago. I've never had anything but kind treatment anywhere I go in uniform, and that's almost everyday. But honestly, if someone spits on me in uniform I can't absolutely swear I won't knock them out. It'd be a real leadership failure on my part if I allowed a minor-cadet to be put in that kind of situation. That's something I'll have to keep in mind for future decisions. As long as they're supervised though, I'm still going to encourage public wear of the uniform.

[PA Guy]

I have a question. When traveling to a NCSA; is it permitted for a cadet to travel via commercial airlines in their Air Force Blues Uniform?

Since we have wandered all over the globe with this I think we should return to the original question.  The bottom line is that the NCSA activity director will/should indicate travel attire.  This may vary from activity to activity so follow the directions for your specific NCSA.  If the question isn't addressed, ask it.  If the activity director says wear a uniform wear it, if they say wear civilian clothes wear those.

[DNall]

^ granted, but that almost never happens, at least for the trip there. It usually comes to a decision by the participant, who MAY ask for guidance from their leadership if they aren't sure or you've led them to believe it's SOP to ask first. Just backgrounding the issues to consider in making such decisions.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I have a question. When traveling to a NCSA; is it permitted for a cadet to travel via commercial airlines in their Air Force Blues Uniform?

Since we have wandered all over the globe with this I think we should return to the original question.  The bottom line is that the NCSA activity director will/should indicate travel attire.  This may vary from activity to activity so follow the directions for your specific NCSA.  If the question isn't addressed, ask it.  If the activity director says wear a uniform wear it, if they say wear civilian clothes wear those.

For NBB, since no blues are allowed, only BDU's the past several project officers mandate travel in Civilian Clothes when on Bus or airlines.

[Sleepwalker]

My son and I travel every year to our home state for Encampment every year, and the only way we can fit everything in our bags it to wear our "Class A" blues on the plane.  The only time I ever had trouble was when the X-ray conveyor at airport security knocked off my green "Unit Citation" ribbon (never to be seen again).  Other than that, for four round-trip flights we never had a problem.

[Eclipse]

Why don't you just check your bags?

[DC]

I would not want to travel commercial air in uniform just on the basis of comfort. When traveling to my first emcampment we all went in BDUs (I car pooled with about 10 other cadets in a large van) and everything was fine. One of my Flight Commanders went to Hawk Mountain in his Blues, only to have them get ruined while at the activity...

I do not see any problem with CAP members traveling in their blues, if they want to and their CC approves, if that is what they want to do.

[mikeylikey]

One of my Flight Commanders went to Hawk Mountain in his Blues, only to have them get ruined while at the activity...

What, why??  Did he or she know it was an outdoor (outside all week) activity??

Yikes!

[DC]

One of my Flight Commanders went to Hawk Mountain in his Blues, only to have them get ruined while at the activity...

What, why??  Did he or she know it was an outdoor (outside all week) activity??

Yikes!

Yes, he knew full well that he would have to carry it around all weekend, but our DCC at the time insisted that he had to wear blues on a commercial flight. (Why, I don't know...)

[c/A1C Johnson]

Yes, it is permitted but I wouldn't recommend it.

Why not?

It draws uneeded attention to yourself thats just what i was told by my LT.

[notaNCO forever]

If you can avoid traveling in blues a highly recamend it so like stated you do not draw extra attention to yourself and it's much more comfortable.

[356cadet]

Well, whatever you decide to do, make yourself look professional. Personally, I LIKE wearing my Blues on planerides because, firstly, it makes people ask: "are you in the Air Force? Oh, the Civil Air Patrol? That sounds neat. I wanna join!" Secondly, it makes people feel safe that there is a "military" person on board to stop them from any terrorists or something (hopefully that doesn't happen, LOL).

I would recommend wearing it because it shows you are part of a respected organization, and others going to the same NCSA as you will be able to distinguish you in the airport. I know I will be wearing my Blues to the NFA (National Flight Academy) next summer.

EDIT: I recommend wearing Blues if you have high charmisma. If you're a shy guy, then I recommend wearing Civies.

[mikeylikey]

......Personally, I LIKE wearing my Blues on planerides because, firstly, it makes people ask: "are you in the Air Force? Oh, the Civil Air Patrol? That sounds neat. I wanna join!" Secondly, it makes people feel safe that there is a "military" person on board to stop them from any terrorists or something (hopefully that doesn't happen, LOL).

Really?  Thats why you wear your service dress while traveling??

[SSgt Rudin]

......Personally, I LIKE wearing my Blues on planerides because, firstly, it makes people ask: "are you in the Air Force? Oh, the Civil Air Patrol? That sounds neat. I wanna join!" Secondly, it makes people feel safe that there is a "military" person on board to stop them from any terrorists or something (hopefully that doesn't happen, LOL).

Really?  Thats why you wear your service dress while traveling??

I'll make a deal with you: if you can tell me what CAP Publication covers the rules of engagement and also cite the code of conduct with out googleing it, I'll go easy on you.

[mikeylikey]

I'll make a deal with you: if you can tell me what CAP Publication covers the rules of engagement and also cite the code of conduct with out googleing it, I'll go easy on you.

Oh yes....go easy on me.  I don't think I can handle it.  PLUS there is a CAP PUB that covers "rules of engagement"?  What CAP are you in?? 

Please let me know the CAP Code of Conduct line item I apparently violated!

[SSgt Rudin]

I'll make a deal with you: if you can tell me what CAP Publication covers the rules of engagement and also cite the code of conduct with out googleing it, I'll go easy on you.

Oh yes....go easy on me.  I don't think I can handle it.  PLUS there is a CAP PUB that covers "rules of engagement"?  What CAP are you in?? 

Please let me know the CAP Code of Conduct line item I apparently violated!

Lol, not you, sorry.

[mikeylikey]

I'll make a deal with you: if you can tell me what CAP Publication covers the rules of engagement and also cite the code of conduct with out googleing it, I'll go easy on you.

Oh yes....go easy on me.  I don't think I can handle it.  PLUS there is a CAP PUB that covers "rules of engagement"?  What CAP are you in?? 

Please let me know the CAP Code of Conduct line item I apparently violated!

Lol, not you, sorry.

Yikes......I remove my foot from my mouth, and offer a solid apology.   

[SSgt Rudin]

It's ok 

My point was that our "rules of engagement" are simply don't. And the code of conduct I was referring to are 6 Articles that instructs members of the military on how they are to act in a hostage/POW situation.

I

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

II

I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

III

If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

IV

If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

V

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

VI

I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

So simply if you are traveling in blues because "it makes people feel safe that there is a "military" person on board to stop them from any terrorists or something" you better know exactly what you are committing too.

But even if you don't, those articles ^ would be a good thing to keep in mind, especially SM's and older cadets who would most likely to be mistaken for AD, because IF something did happen they guy with the gun only sees a uniform and could care less what CAP is and that you are a "non-combatant."

But hey, nothing beets skipping the security line or being bumped to first class 

[DC]

Should something happen on a flight I do not see how what you are wearing would affect what you do. If anything a uniform would hinder any attempt at resistance because you will become a target real quick. If you are not in uniform at least you blend in with the sheep. If you want a 'military' reason to not wear a uniform, think camouflage.

Your choice, but I wouldn't.

[mikeylikey]

Americans NEVER surrender.  This country and its citizens will fight until they have no one left to fight.  Thats why we are hated, because we fight for what we want, and will not stop until we get it.  Also because we don't degrade women, rape children, follow a strict religious doctrine as a form of government, hold open and fair elections, beat the Germans twice in two world wars, first to the moon, first to explore the worlds oceans (underwater) and spend money to purchase things we really don't need like there is no tomorrow!  Man how I do love the USA!

Oh ya......there is no reason to travel in blues unless you are flying on a military aircraft to a CAP conference, which is really not the norm any longer post 9/11.

SO.....just wear something confortable when on plane, train or automobile.      

[LtCol Hooligan]

Well, whatever you decide to do, make yourself look professional. Personally, I LIKE wearing my Blues on planerides because, firstly, it makes people ask: "are you in the Air Force? Oh, the Civil Air Patrol? That sounds neat. I wanna join!" Secondly, it makes people feel safe that there is a "military" person on board to stop them from any terrorists or something (hopefully that doesn't happen, LOL).

I would recommend wearing it because it shows you are part of a respected organization, and others going to the same NCSA as you will be able to distinguish you in the airport. I know I will be wearing my Blues to the NFA (National Flight Academy) next summer.

EDIT: I recommend wearing Blues if you have high charmisma. If you're a shy guy, then I recommend wearing Civies.

Wear your favorite CAP t-shirt and leave the uniform at home or in the bag.  You are not required to wear them on the plane and honestly don't need to.  You can change into your uniform when you arrive.  I know being in a uniform makes you feel good because others are looking at you and you are getting attention, but honestly, wearing the CAP uniform is a priviledge.  All it takes is for you to forget you are representing CAP for one second and you impact how another person views our organization.  I mean if you read the regs carefully, you should really go straight home after a CAP meeting and change out of your uniform.  No quick Walmart runs, no stopping and eating with your buddies; you are to go home, change and then do what you want.  I know you think the military guys coming home in uniform and hugging mom and dad is romantic and such, but wait until you go in the RM and come home from the sandbox to live out the dream.  Sorry if this is rough on you, but I thought it needs to be said. 

[Major Carrales]

Sorry if this is rough on you, but I thought it needs to be said. 

Good, then you I hope you will apply that I say that I think <I>bupkes</I> of that. 

At the PAO Conference it was recommended that we be "visable" in the public eye.  Our organization suffers from a lack of visibility.  People don't see us enough in uniforms, that is why we get all those bizzare looks and "what is CAP?" 

Wearing the CAP uniform is not something to be ashamed of.  A frickin' Tee-Shirt is "underwear," and I'll be condemned if I an going to represent an organization I think highly of in a article of underwear.

The way some of you talk you make wearing a CAP uniform seem like being labeled a pariah. 

As for the comment on "All it takes is for you to forget you are representing CAP for one second and you impact how another person views our organization," I believe living by the Core Values of CAP is a remedy for that.

Oh, and the regulation say "go straight home and change," funny I did't read that.

What is says is...

CAPM 39-1 23 MARCH 2005 Table 1-1 Page 6 and 7

may wear service dress uniform or light blue, short or long sleeve shirt/blouse with tie/tab and the all-weather coat, overcoat, and raincoat when traveling by commercial means (other than to and from local CAP activities) (see note 2).

Note 2 says:

Unit commanders can make exceptions for travel in small commuter aircraft that involve short flights in areas of the country where civilians wear informal clothing because of weather or cramped conditions on the commuter aircraft.

Note that the allowance is made for CAP Officers to be visible en route on commercial flights "other than to and from local CAP activities."  Could it be that this situation was "made so" that CAP Officers and Cadets would be more visible and proponents of commercial aviation?  What ever it means it certainly negates your contention this occasion.

Additionally,

more than 1 hour following the close of the activity except for travel time to and from such activities, for which the uniform is specified (seminars, conferences, NEC, or NB meetings).

Travel time includes reasonable stops for meals and restroom et al.  It takes me, for example, 1 and 1/2 hours to get home from the meeting.  I sometimes take cadets that distance to and from there, they are allowed to eat and partake of restroom or should they need to stop at WAL*Mart for some article they need.

Let the realities of the world guide your interpretations of the regulations.

[hatentx]

I have had to travel in uniform a few times with the Army. 

First I have never had an issue with TSA or metal detector in BDUs, ACUs, or Class As.  Simple if you insignia sets off the alarm as some might take the top off and run it through the x ray machine.  This biggest pain I have is taking off my boots.

Second I personally never travel in uniform unless I must.  In domestic air travel I have encountered many types of people.  Old Vets wanting to trade war stories to being spit on.  If the cadets are traveling in the uniforms I would hate to put a child through something like that.  I know it upset me when I was flying home for Christmas during my AIT to be called a baby killer.  I was 20 imagine how a 14 or 15 year old cadet would take it.

Third there is always some risk in wearing a uniform.  If you are going from the house to the Squadron or flying from Florida to Seattle.  Your conduct or even you appearance can shape the way the military is viewed.  If you are speeding and get pulled over the officer my thing or lump you into the stereotype of stupid GI or worse you add to it.  I do think the terrorist on a plane is a little out there.  Not unbelievable but not likely to happen.   The fringe benefits are nice, bumped up to first class not getting a ticket.  But I know in Army regulations you are not suppose to accept special favors due to your military service.  (I dont remember how it is worded any more got that brief a dozen times back in AIT)

I personally hate going through the dallas airport in uniform and getting clapping a cheering so if you want to get it while in CAP uniform by all means take the attention off of me.    I would just say if you you feel the need to wear the uniform while traveling then do it right but that reason should be that you cant change before or after you flight.  If not and you are that worried about getting the CAP name out there wear the corporate or a nice CAP polo.  If you are that into getting the name out there then get your Squadren out in the community doing things and actively recruit people rather than try and get some person that may not even live near you to notice your uniform and call it "getting the word out"

Oh and Yes I hope to get let go on a ticket if I am in uniform.  I was doing wrong and am willing to pay the price of the ticket and what ever else comes with it but again I am the reason that these laws are in place and still standing so a cop that would like to show his appreciation to me for my service by letting me off with a warning is better than any drink or meal someone can comp for me.

[SSgt Rudin]

Airtran - $10 for second bag, $50 for third bag
American - $15 for first bag, $25 for second bag, $100 for third bag
Delta - $25 for second bag, $80 for third bag
Northwest - $25 for second bag, $100 for third bag
Southwest Airlines - $25.00 for third bag
US Airways - $25 for second bag, $100 for third bag
United - AS OF JULY 1 - $15 for first bag, $25 for second bag, $100 for third bag

After seeing this I can understand traveling in blues if it will save you from having to check a garment bag.

Just as a point of interest I wanted to see how much it would be to ship a bag from my house(south florida) to NHGA,  if you have a 3rd bag the weighs under 50 pounds you can have it 3 days later for $32 if you ship it via UPS, 3 days later for $29 with FedEx, 2 days later for $45 or 5 days later for 19.38 with USPS.

[DC]

Airtran - $10 for second bag, $50 for third bag
American - $15 for first bag, $25 for second bag, $100 for third bag
Delta - $25 for second bag, $80 for third bag
Northwest - $25 for second bag, $100 for third bag
Southwest Airlines - $25.00 for third bag
US Airways - $25 for second bag, $100 for third bag
United - AS OF JULY 1 - $15 for first bag, $25 for second bag, $100 for third bag

After seeing this I can understand traveling in blues if it will save you from having to check a garment bag.

Just as a point of interest I wanted to see how much it would be to ship a bag from my house(south florida) to NHGA,  if you have a 3rd bag the weighs under 50 pounds you can have it 3 days later for $32 if you ship it via UPS, 3 days later for $29 with FedEx, 2 days later for $45 or 5 days later for 19.38 with USPS.

I woinder if they would consider it one bag if you bungee them together. 

Seriously, those prices suck.

[mikeylikey]

I hope American is he first to collapse....followed by the rest.  We need Regional Airlines back in the USA, not National.

Pilots still get lots of $$.......the board members get lots of $$.....all at the flyer's EXPENSE!!!