Wimpy Encampments

[Eclipse]

So somewhere there are people who will take that comment as testimony, not sarcasm!

Too true...
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/232637/july-01-2009/tip-wag---cynthia-davis---fox-news

[Critical AOA]

Rather than depriving all of them of sleep and starving them, can't we just shoot the low performers so the Cadet Medics can practice on them? 

[lordmonar]

Rather than depriving all of them of sleep and starving them, can't we just shoot the low performers so the Cadet Medics can practice on them?

No No No No......we make each flight to choose one cadet and then those cadets are locked in a room with a single Rambo knife.   At the end of the encampment......the sole surviving cadets wins his flight "Honor Flight". 

[ol'fido]

One of our former cadets who is an MTI at Lackland now had the nickname of "Death March".

[Garibaldi]

Just reinstate Drummond Island. 

[AlphaSigOU]

Just reinstate Drummond Island. 

Or Georgia Wing Cadet Leadership School... back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was a cadink it had a reputation of pushing the elevation of Travis ANGB a few inches every summer! 

[BillB]

In 1968 or 69, Florida Wing held their summer encampment at Travis ANG Base. Great Encampment location provided airlift of cadets from Miami area was available.

[Garibaldi]

In 1968 or 69, Florida Wing held their summer encampment at Travis ANG Base. Great Encampment location provided airlift of cadets from Miami area was available.

Our '84 and '85 encampments were there. Waking up to the smell of the paper mill was a real treat.

[NIN]

Just reinstate Drummond Island. 

You think that Drummond Island actually stopped?

[NIN]

Rather than depriving all of them of sleep and starving them, can't we just shoot the low performers so the Cadet Medics can practice on them?

No No No No......we make each flight to choose one cadet and then those cadets are locked in a room with a single Rambo knife.   At the end of the encampment......the sole surviving cadets wins his flight "Honor Flight". 

"Alpha Flight offers Airman Timmy as our Tribute!!"

[NIN]

BTW, I just read back thru the comments (I kind of tuned this out for a bit, I think the discourse actually got better in this thread, however) couple things come to mind:

1) Cadets swearing at their troops. Anybody who knows me that I could make Chesty Puller, George Patton and H. Norman Schwarzkopf blush, but as a commander I never use that kind of language in front of or around the troops. (I have some @#$% discipline, for @#$% sake!  ) 

Many, many years ago, after some complaints from cadets & parents, I put out an edict to squadron: "If I catch you swearing at or in front of your troops, I'm takin' a stripe. Period. This is your warning."   

One of my TSgt Flt Sgts decided that the old man is crazy and would never follow thru on such a threat.  Later, several cadets complained about his language and I asked them to provide me written statements.  I then counseled and demoted the Flight Sergeant.   

His mom came in to the squadron all hot under the collar that we would treat her son like this.  I slid the statements of the witnesses across the table to her, which included the words that he'd used.  "Do you condone this kind of language out of your 15 year old son?"  She realized her little angel had told her that he was being railroaded for some other reason.  She asked me if I could take another stripe for good measure.

Its NOT needed and NOT appropriate. I want to know, apart from a 25+ year old movie (Full Metal Jacket), where cadets get this idea that hurling invective and questioning the parentage of their charges in a very loud, grotesque manner somehow equals "leadership."   Last time I looked, the cadet leadership materials did not suggest that spittle-laden outbursts of words that make a sailor wince were either a) motivational; b) effective; or c) allowed.

2) the CPP, warts and all, does not inhibit good leadership.  The next time I hear someone say "Well, with the CPP now, we can't do X, Y or Z" I swear I'm gonna go all Jim Mattis on 'em.

Look, we've been under the CPP in one form or another since at least 1989 when I returned from Active Duty and became a senior member. This is not new material here, folks.  Leadership is leadership, irrespective of the CPP.   

When I hear people wax poetic about "how things were in the old days [of 2007], when we could give cadets pushups and call them names," I really want to know what organization they were in, cuz the Civil Air Patrol's CPP was in place, and working, in the rest of the country since WAYYY before then. Way before.  Its not like Group 92 of Florida Wing [note: fake, made up unit. not inferring FL wing has this problem] had an exception to policy from NHQ to suspend or abridge the CPP in their AO from 1989 to 2008.

3) Things are wimpier today than WIWAC. When I hear "how much tougher we had it, and cadets today don't," I'm tempted to invoke the "Old Corps" joke here. No, screw it, I'm not tempted, I AM gonna invoke the "Old Corps" joke:

"Legend has it that the United States Marine Corps was born on 10 November, 1775, at Tun Tavern, in Philidelphia, Pennsylvania. On that day, the Continental Congress passed a resolution authorizing two battalions of Continental Marines. The resolution was sponsored by John Adams. Since 1921, the Corps has celebrated its birthday as 10 November.

Tun Tavern was a popular meeting place of 18th century Philadelphians. The tavern was frequented by sailors and other seafaring men, so it was a logical place to conduct the business of recruiting."

What follows was related to me by a Master Gunnery Sergeant:

When the Navy officers set up a table in the Tun Tavern and started interviewing prospects, they were a bit relieved to finally find a young man who fit their requirements. They had him sign the book, paid him his dollar, and bought a round of rum to toast the enlistment. They were so happy to finally get the whole process underway, they even had a second round. They then send him off to a table in the corner to wait.

After a few more interviews, they found a second recruit, who soon joined the first.

"This is great," the second recruit said. "They paid me right away, and even bought me a tot of rum!"

"Hunh," sneered the first. "In the Old Corps they bought us two.

4) There is a difference between "What was allowed" and "What people got away with." In 1981, we sang songs like "Irene" in front of SMs. Holy cow.  Was it right? Probably not.  Was it tacitly allowed? Yep.  Would I allow it today?  Ehhhh, sometimes what happens out of earshot of the boss happens.. <GRIN>

But the bottom line is: Just because you "pushed [your encampment site] back to [nearby big city]" all week long doesn't mean that it was a good idea or done under the auspices of the CPP that has been in place since 1988-1989.

*sigh*...

[Майор Хаткевич]

But WIWAC was totally cooler!

[lordmonar]

But WIWAC was totally cooler!

That was an Ice Age not a CP program! 

[AlphaSigOU]

But WIWAC was totally cooler!

That was an Ice Age not a CP program! 

Back when the earth cooled, dinosaurs roamed the earth and Jesus Christ was an A1C... and we old timers will say that the Ooooold cadet program was the best cadet program!     

[Pulsar]

I have read a new supplement from National HQ about encampment, and frankly, its going to turn encampment into summer camp. It says, among other things, cadets will get eight hours of sleep and will be called students. On my basic, we were called cadets and we got 6-7 hours of sleep (usually 6). We were woken up with whistle, yelling, and banging on our lockers. Heck, when I went to Airman Leadership School, we were woken up with air horns! Is it just me, or are we (CAP) getting soft?

:clap: :clap:  Great question. my encampment was the same as yours.--except I went to PAWG this year. ( )   

[Luis R. Ramos]

Nin, your last comment was... interesting. I have never heard the song, Irene so I made a search using Irene camp song lyrics.

Does Irene by any count starts and end with...

Irene goodnight, Irene goodnight
Goodnight Irene, goodnight Irene
I'll see you in my dreams

If this is it, interesting song, to say the least...



I have bookmarked it, cannot listen to it as I am sitting at a McDonalds next to their TV. It is  hectic here...

Flyer

[ol'fido]

Irene's her name, she's one of the best....

[Luis R. Ramos]

Thank you Fido-

When I saw your post I knew I had the wrong Irene.

Continued the search and found the jodie that ends with the F-15 line.

Funny in that both searches I found references to Irene Cara. Wonder if the search was trying to imply something...

Flyer

[ol'fido]

No prob. In my day, it was an F-4, but who knows where it began.

[kmorisen]

I am going to agree with everyone who has said this is NOT the USAF. Cadets are teenagers and as such, require a set amount of sleep, this is for good health, not because its being wimpy.  Further, I went to encampment in mid-late 80s and we didn't 'drop and give em 20" Heck, I didn't do that at BMT in the USAF in 1988.  We were there to learn, both locations. Yes, we did a lot of drill, we did PT and yes, we had to stand with our little white books in front of our faces (both locations, BTW), but, we also spent a lot of time in classrooms and on tours of the AFB we were at.
THIS IS NOT NOR SHOULD IT BE CONSIDERED BASIC MILITARY TRAINING, NOR IS IT THE US ARMY OR US MARINE CORPS. Punitive training does not work.

The only complaints I have about encampments is the length of time they are held for. I don't feel like one week is enough. I did two week encampments and looking back, I wish I had attended one that was 3 weeks long. Just because there was so much to learn and I don't think we learned it all or even a good portion of it.

Now, the only other thing I don't agree with, and this is speaking as a woman, is the integration of Female cadets with Male Cadets.  I say this because, as teens, female cadets tend to be 1) more mature than males at the same age (Sorry guys, that is a physiological thing, we grow up a little faster) and 2) we tend to focus better on learning without boys around and finally, 3) We also tend to work better with other girls. This has been shown in many studies. I do not think we need or should be held to a different standard, just kept 'separate' during certain activities. There's also the whole hormonal thing teens have., but that is something entirely different.

Just my thoughts.