Wimpy Encampments

[NCRblues]

All classes have to have an after test

Not trying to call you out here at all, but i am looking at the new manual and I can't find what your saying above. Can you give me a page number or paragraph?

[lordmonar]

Okay.

"All cadets will be in bed by 2200 hours"  "No cadets are allowed in the staff areas"  "Cadets are not permitted to wear watches".

There we go....three statements written down or spoken......where are my verbal and non verbal clues that these statements only applies to the cadets who are not staff?

All Students/Trainees/Basics will be in bed by 2200
All Cadets will be in bed by 2300
All Staff will be in bed by 24000

I can build a Zen diagram if you want  .

Terms and Definitions are important when writing regulations and communicating.  Now we can argue what is better.....Student, Trainee, Attendee, Recruit, Doolie, Learner, Encamper.....but I do think that we need to have a common universal single term to designate the cadets who are attending the encampment to set them apart from those who are on staff.

Also a note.....what about encampments with advanced training flights (second year attendees)?  Basic does not work for them.

Or we can just stop making blanket decrees from on high in a one size fits all fashion.

Hahaha.........LOL  Of course the counter to that is.....we would once you guys in the field would get your act together.  But there you go. 

[Eclipse]

All classes have to have an after test

Not trying to call you out here at all, but i am looking at the new manual and I can't find what your saying above. Can you give me a page number or paragraph?

See section 3.1 for graduation requirements (page 11 of Aug 2012 rev), and the lesson plans for where quizzes and similar are required.

[Storm Chaser]

While I prefer cadet or even trainee (if we really must differentiate between participants and staff), I have no problem with student (although I agree that the term seems more appropriate for a school than an encampment).

As far as the whole sleep deprivation, yelling, etc. goes, I truly believe this has to do more with cadets (and maybe even some SMs) wanting to feel some "power" over the "student" cadets maybe because it makes them feel important or superior, or just because they had to go through it themselves. Back when I was a cadet, you could get away with lots of things including yelling, name calling, push-ups as punishments, etc. It seemed normal and even expected. But when I look back now, I realize that wasn't the best (or even a good) approach.

I still remember a drill team commander (C/Flight Officer), who was also a Marine Reservist, yelling at us and making us do extra exercise all the time. One evening, we were on the ground doing scissor kicks and he was walking around stepping on everyone's stomach. When he stepped on me, I held his foot and pushed it off. He then proceeded to start kicking me while I was on the ground. I then got up and, as he was yelling and cursing at me, I made a "gesture" with my finger while walking away (hey, I was a dumb teenager, what can I say). That really upset him, so he ran after me and when he got to me, he started strangling me. Everyone else, who up to that point were just staring at the whole situation, ran to pull him off of me. At the end, the interesting thing about this story is that most other cadets felt that I was in the wrong, not him. He was the drill team commander, so I just had to "take it" and "get over it".

This story may be an extreme case, but the bottom line is that hazing and abuse, whether physical, verbal or emotional, have NO place in CAP. Period. Not in encampment, not at the units. There are better ways to train and challenge cadets.

[NCRblues]

All classes have to have an after test

Not trying to call you out here at all, but i am looking at the new manual and I can't find what your saying above. Can you give me a page number or paragraph?

See section 3.1 for graduation requirements (page 11 of Aug 2012 rev), and the lesson plans for where quizzes and similar are required.

Wow, not sure how I missed that... Thanks..I think 

(FYI, it's on page 30 of the December 2012 rev, for anyone else who is looking)

[lordmonar]

Storm Chaser.....it is stories just like that that has pushed CAP into taking the CPP stance that has.

[Critical AOA]

What I've meant to say this entire time is that 1, cadets should be called "cadets, and 2, 6-7 hours of sleep is enough to keep the body functioning for 7 days. Being tired is part of the training, because you may want to just fall asleep in formation, but by being disciplined, you stay awake. Same thing with personal time. You can go to bed early, but instead you prepare for the next day.

Uh, no.  Not sure where you got that idea but you are wrong.

[lordmonar]

What I've meant to say this entire time is that 1, cadets should be called "cadets, and 2, 6-7 hours of sleep is enough to keep the body functioning for 7 days. Being tired is part of the training, because you may want to just fall asleep in formation, but by being disciplined, you stay awake. Same thing with personal time. You can go to bed early, but instead you prepare for the next day.

Uh, no.  Not sure where you got that idea but you are wrong.

I don't know how I missed that one on the first time around.   We sleep deprive you so that you have the opportunity to show us your discipline.   Isn't that the premise of SAW?  Not to mention that being sleep deprives is a physical condition not a choice....ergo it is not a lack of discipline if you fall asleep in formation....but a lack of sleep.  We might as well just break everyone's right leg before encampment so they can test your discipline in PT.   Work through the pain!

[Eclipse]

We probably should consider limiting food intake as well.

[NIN]

We probably should consider limiting food intake as well.

"You got, what, a six to eight week training program here? Which is perfect for me!"

[ol'fido]

Yeah, we need to toughen things up again. Here is my home movie of my first encampment.

Bridge on the River Kwai Theme

[lordmonar]

Yeah, we need to toughen things up again. Here is my home movie of my first encampment.

I can't whistle.   

[lordmonar]

We probably should consider limiting food intake as well.

"You got, what, a six to eight week training program here? Which is perfect for me!"

I know that quote! 

[Brad]

Yeah, we need to toughen things up again. Here is my home movie of my first encampment.

Bridge on the River Kwai Theme

Sooooo....the Japanese = Sea Cadets? 

[Storm Chaser]

Storm Chaser.....it is stories just like that that has pushed CAP into taking the CPP stance that has.

On a more recent case, my son went to encampment last winter and when he came back, he told me of a flight sergeant that used to curse and yell all sort of profanity to his cadet trainees. When I inquired about the senior member tac officer assigned to the flight (or any other SM present for that matter), my son said that this flight sergeant usually did this when there was no SM around and that they spent quite a bit of time without SM supervision.

Now, I'm strict with my cadets and I'm very adamant about enforcing the standards. But what this flight sergeant this was completely unacceptable and not conducive to training and discipline. We was being a bully; nothing more. This type of behavior should not be tolerated in CAP; not even in encampment. CAP encampment is NOT boot camp!

Unfortunately, he couldn't remember this cadet's name. Otherwise, I would ensure he would never staff an encampment again. By the way, this wasn't the only story. Apparently, some of the cadet staff would throw cadet trainees' belongings all over the place during inspections; even outside the windows.

How is this 'training' helping the development of these cadets "into dynamic Americans and aerospace leaders" (CAPR 52-16)? Didn't think so...

[Eclipse]

Now, I'm strict with my cadets and I'm very adamant about enforcing the standards. But what this flight sergeant this was completely unacceptable and not conducive to training and discipline. We was being a bully; nothing more. This type of behavior should not be tolerated in CAP; not even in encampment. CAP encampment is NOT boot camp!

He may not, but the Commander of the activity will have the staff listing and would be interested.  Since it wasn't reported at the time, there's not
much that can be done, but a discussion could be had between the encampment CC and this cadet's unit CC to adjust attitudes, and
next time this cadet applies for a staff job somewhere, this can be brought up.

Your son really should have made an issue of it at the time - what I always told my people was "I can't fix last year".

[Storm Chaser]

Your son really should have made an issue of it at the time - what I always told my people was "I can't fix last year".

Agree; he should have. But he was a C/A1C with about six months in CAP and barely 13. He has been briefed since then.

[Eclipse]

Your son really should have made an issue of it at the time - what I always told my people was "I can't fix last year".

Agree; he should have. But he was a C/A1C with about six months in CAP and barely 13. He has been briefed since then.

Understood - and a lot of CC's don't make that clear from day one - we always emphasized that beginning with staff selections and
especially at RST, and even with all that effort, there was never a year where someone didn't complain that "Jim was touching my stuff last year".

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

As Encampments are a wing level event, I would encourage reporting it to Wing. That could be to the CC or the IG.

Storm Chaser, your brief description points to issues larger than 1 cadet. Even if an other encampment has been run since, your wing CP and CC should be aware of these issues.

If we are talking 2 winters ago it might just be a "I know what you did last winter" talk ended with "go forth and sin no more" to those involved. Right now some may be thinking the got away with something or worse still have no idea they were wrong.

[MajorM]

We probably should consider limiting food intake as well.

Careful with those ideas... I just had a constituent call me and yell at me about our school district's summer meal program.  His direct quote, "don't make it so easy on those kids; hunger can be a great motivator for problem solving.  If they go hungry for a day or two I bet they'll figure somethin' out"

So somewhere there are people who will take that comment as testimony, not sarcasm!