Wimpy Encampments

[coudano]

Everyone pretty much hit the high points here, but the one that bears repeating ad infinitum;

You don't have to yell cuss and hit (and sleep deprive) to make something challenging (and even stressful).
Those are crude tools with a specific and limited purpose, and that purpose is not consistent with the cadet program.


The only other point i'll make is that USAF calls all of its BMT attendees "trainee" until the coining ceremony after which they care called "Airman".  And "trainee" is often not particularly a term of endearment...

However USAF OTS calls its students "OT" (used to I think be "OC") and that is never spoken with disrespect.

[Critical AOA]

Just call them cadets.  Their status is still the same, they are cadets.

[NIN]

Agree 100% with your last. Too much to deal with without some strange kid getting in your face and screaming himself hoarse. No place in CAP for that. Not anymore. Kids these days are so plugged in that unplugging them, sending them to a military base, regimenting their schedule, then turning them back to their parents can do a number on their head.

My god yes.

A cadet asked me two weeks ago what he could do to prepare for encampment. I said "Lay off the junk food, start drinking lots of water, and go to bed at 9pm."

for 20+ years, in more than just CAP,  I've seen this:
1) Cadets show up to summer training and the first night they go to bed there is beaucoup "fourth-point-of-contact grabbing" in the barracks, of the "who the hell is Chesty?" variety.  OK, fine, whatever, everybody is keyed up, used to being up till 4am playing CoD.. thats fine.  0545 is gonna come early, troop.  I can tell you "Go to sleep!" but it won't help much.

2) First morning they roll out for PT at 0545/0600, whatever time its still probably 4-6 hrs before they're normally vertical at home, and they look half-way like hammered crap.  Not paying attention, yawning, extremely tired, the whole deal.

3) Just after lunch, you have a room full of people who are used to getting 6-8 hrs of sleep on their own schedule, and probably lots of sugar/caffeine too, who had an abbreviated night on someone else's schedule (and by abbreviated I mean 6-8 hrs of "rest" that is probably only 3-4 hrs of "sleep") and no help staying awake with stimulants, are now vegetables in the (warm) classroom.  Heads lolling around, chins on chests, flight / platoon sergeants barking at people to get up and stand in the back of the room...

4) That second night, the barracks are much quieter 30 minutes after lights out, and the 3rd day is still some vegetative troopers with their eyes rolling back in their heads.   There are a few hardcore people who need another night of adjustment, but that 3rd night in the barracks is usually a lot of snoring people within 15 minutes of lights out, for sure.

And you don't need external sleep deprivation to do it. Just making them adhere to a schedule that is not of their own making/control is a pretty good stressor.

[TexasCadet]

What I've meant to say this entire time is that 1, cadets should be called "cadets, and 2, 6-7 hours of sleep is enough to keep the body functioning for 7 days. Being tired is part of the training, because you may want to just fall asleep in formation, but by being disciplined, you stay awake. Same thing with personal time. You can go to bed early, but instead you prepare for the next day.

[Eclipse]

What I've meant to say this entire time is that 1, cadets should be called "cadets, and 2, 6-7 hours of sleep is enough to keep the body functioning for 7 days. Being tired is part of the training, because you may want to just fall asleep in formation, but by being disciplined, you stay awake. Same thing with personal time. You can go to bed early, but instead you prepare for the next day.

So you're just going to stick to this despite it being against regs, a bad idea, and counter to the experience of people with more encampments then you have years on this earth?
BTW - there's a difference between "functioning" and "thriving".  The military pushes recruits and servicemembers to their limits because it may well be necessary to live that way
to save your life or accomplish a mission, however anyone with the History channel, let alone real-world experience, knows the diminishing returns of people with a high-level of fatigue,
and pushing adolescents to the point where they are falling asleep standing up, could be considered abuse, especially since it is 100% unnecessary.

What, specifically, is your experience or training that indicates otherwise?

[TexasCadet]

Okay, so maybe it is a bad idea. I still think cadets should be called "cadets. Also, where in the regs does it say it is against regs?

[TexasCadet]

Sorry, let me clear that up. Where in the regs does it say that? I admit I was wrong in saying cadets should have 6-7 hours of sleep a night.

[lordmonar]

Just call them cadets.  Their status is still the same, they are cadets.

The problem is how to differentiate between Student Cadets and Staff Cadets......but yes Cadets/Trainee/student....are all acceptable terms to me.   We just need to pick one and standardize it.....and that the key.  Standardization keeps the term of address of becoming a derogatory term and becoming a negative training aid.

[Eclipse]

Sorry, let me clear that up. Where in the regs does it say that? I admit I was wrong in saying cadets should have 6-7 hours of sleep a night.

52-16 and the new encampment guide.

The guide is still in draft, but is being treated by most as already published, and most of the requirements were SOP for
encampments anyway, just not mandated until now.  This season is close to over, should be writ for FY2014.

[RiverAux]

Dislike on "students".  Why should we call them something different just because they are at an encampment.  Frankly, they aren't really students in any sense of the traditional use of that word. 

[Eclipse]

Dislike on "students".  Why should we call them something different just because they are at an encampment.  Frankly, they aren't really students in any sense of the traditional use of that word.

The new curriculum kinda disagrees - the emphasis on hands-on AE and other academics clearly puts them into that category.  An encampment was always supposed to be, and
now will certainly be, more akin to tech school then BMT.

I'll agree that the pendulum has probably swung too far - students, cadre, etc., I think "cadets" or "basic cadets" (basics) worked OK, the problem is that unless you define the term
somewhere, you have activities that feel free to use silly/inappropriate terms for the cadets, terms I have still seen in use, very recently, by adult leaders.

[PA Guy]

Deleted

[lordmonar]

Dislike on "students".  Why should we call them something different just because they are at an encampment.  Frankly, they aren't really students in any sense of the traditional use of that word.

Then what would suggest?  Doolie, Dweeb, NOOB, Smack, etc are right out....because they are too derogatory.
Recruit is not really applicable.
Trainee....okay maybe.
Student....okay maybe.
Basics.....okay maybe, but it is too close to C/AB
Cadet.....okay...but they are all cadets....the attendees and the staff....so how do you differentiate between talking to your cadet staff, your cadet attendees, and when you are talking to all your cadets?

Also....how are they not students in the "traditional" sense of the word?  A student is

1 : SCHOLAR 1; especially : one who attends a school or college
2 : one who studies <a student of life>

Is that not what all our cadets are?  They are studying to become good leaders and citizens?

[coudano]

Cadet.....okay...but they are all cadets....the attendees and the staff....so how do you differentiate between talking to your cadet staff, your cadet attendees, and when you are talking to all your cadets?

Are our people really that stupid, that they can't figure out who is being talked to based on the totality of verbal and nonverbal cues?
What if your flight sergeant is a C/MSgt Alex Smith.
And you have a C/SSgt John Smith first time in-flight cadet.

If someone is...   explaining in a loud fashion, "CADETS, FOR THE LAST TIME...  WIPE DOWN THE SINKS IN THE LATRINE"
Does anyone really think the flight sergeant thinks he's the one being addressed here?
Do you think the 'in-flight' cadets think the flight sergeant is being addressed (that's for him, not for me)
(flight sergeant should be the one talking, in this case, anyway)

Similarly, if the flight commander says "Sergeant Smith, let's move these troops out of here, we're almost late"
Do you think C/SSgt Smith (in-flight cadet) really thinks he is the one being addressed?



If this is an explanation for why we can't call cadets cadets, then it's the most insulting one offered so far.
Personally I find it offensive.

This is all about killing the derogatory nickname trend seen at a lot of encampments.

[RiverAux]

Cadets and Cadet Staff is just as easy as student and cadet staff.

Its an encampment, not a training school. Yes, there are educational aspects to encampment, but a lot of these are basically demonstrations.  Heck, a typical squadron meeting might be considered more like a school as there actually are tests involved every now and again.   

Now, if we want to make encampment more of a school, such as Regional or National Staff Colleges are, then I wouldn't have an objection to student. 

[lordmonar]

Okay.

"All cadets will be in bed by 2200 hours"  "No cadets are allowed in the staff areas"  "Cadets are not permitted to wear watches".

There we go....three statements written down or spoken......where are my verbal and non verbal clues that these statements only applies to the cadets who are not staff?

All Students/Trainees/Basics will be in bed by 2200
All Cadets will be in bed by 2300
All Staff will be in bed by 24000

I can build a Zen diagram if you want  .

Terms and Definitions are important when writing regulations and communicating.  Now we can argue what is better.....Student, Trainee, Attendee, Recruit, Doolie, Learner, Encamper.....but I do think that we need to have a common universal single term to designate the cadets who are attending the encampment to set them apart from those who are on staff.

Also a note.....what about encampments with advanced training flights (second year attendees)?  Basic does not work for them.

[lordmonar]

Cadets and Cadet Staff is just as easy as student and cadet staff.

For clarity.......lets try this.

CAP MEMBER....all seniors and all cadets on staff and off.
Senior Members....All senior on or off staff.
Cadet Members......all cadets on or off staff
Staff members......all seniors and all cadets on staff.
Cadet Staff.....only those cadets who are on staff and/or only those staff who are cadets
Students.....all members who are not on staff
Cadet Students...all non staff members who are cadets
Senior Students.....all non staff members who are senior members

See what I just did.....I have not expanded the terms used to not only apply to encampments but to anything we do...including NESA, HAWK Mountain, Blue Beret. etc.

Its an encampment, not a training school. Yes, there are educational aspects to encampment, but a lot of these are basically demonstrations.  Heck, a typical squadron meeting might be considered more like a school as there actually are tests involved every now and again.

Please define "encampment" and "training school".  I don't know how you are using them in this context.
A student is one who learns.....a trainee is one who learns.   The is some hair splitting between what the difference between training and education but really......

Now, if we want to make encampment more of a school, such as Regional or National Staff Colleges are, then I wouldn't have an objection to student.

[coudano]

Okay.

"All cadets will be in bed by 2200 hours"  "No cadets are allowed in the staff areas"  "Cadets are not permitted to wear watches".

There we go....three statements written down or spoken......where are my verbal and non verbal clues that these statements only applies to the cadets who are not staff?

All Students/Trainees/Basics will be in bed by 2200
All Cadets will be in bed by 2300
All Staff will be in bed by 24000

I can build a Zen diagram if you want  .

Terms and Definitions are important when writing regulations and communicating.  Now we can argue what is better.....Student, Trainee, Attendee, Recruit, Doolie, Learner, Encamper.....but I do think that we need to have a common universal single term to designate the cadets who are attending the encampment to set them apart from those who are on staff.

Also a note.....what about encampments with advanced training flights (second year attendees)?  Basic does not work for them.

Or we can just stop making blanket decrees from on high in a one size fits all fashion.

[Eclipse]

Its an encampment, not a training school. Yes, there are educational aspects to encampment, but a lot of these are basically demonstrations.  Heck, a typical squadron meeting might be considered more like a school as there actually are tests involved every now and again.   

Have you read the new curriculum that brings the new terminology?

All classes have to have an after test, and you have to score a cumulative 80% (as I recall) in order to graduate.  As I said before, it will now be possible
to fail encampment.

[Eclipse]

Or we can just stop making blanket decrees from on high in a one size fits all fashion.

It's called "standardization", every successful organization has it.

We can quibble about what the terms should be, but lack of standardization has been noted for years as a significant weakness in the
encampment program, especially when you have cadets going between wings.