Hydration Checks/Chants at Encampment

[SarDragon]

/quote]
circulation of what? I'm not saying that sleeves down is bad, I'm just saying that you'd probably have to compensate by drinking more water to replenish the water lost by the increased sweating.


HUH???

[titanII]

whatever. don't worry about it. you win.

[tsrup]

Sleeves down only keeps you cooler in dry areas.  This is because the sweat is "reused" or probably better stated, "trapped" in the outer garment, and the skin is not exposed directly to the sun.  The sleeve cuffs also have to be in the full open position to allow adequate ventilation.  Light colors (like the ACU's) help most with this effect as well, since they don't trap near as much heat as darker colors.


For the most part the benefit is personal preference and people will argue forever over the subject.  Best to do what your commander says (assuming they are keeping safety in consideration), so everyone is uniform.  Safety can say what they want, but in the end it is the commander's call and responsibility.

Otherwise sleeves up/down, was not going to curb whatever else they were doing wrong to allow 80 heat cases to happen.

[cap235629]

ME: DRINK WATER

THEM: YES SIR!

[ol'fido]

Sleeves down only keeps you cooler in dry areas.  This is because the sweat is "reused" or probably better stated, "trapped" in the outer garment, and the skin is not exposed directly to the sun.  The sleeve cuffs also have to be in the full open position to allow adequate ventilation.  Light colors (like the ACU's) help most with this effect as well, since they don't trap near as much heat as darker colors.


For the most part the benefit is personal preference and people will argue forever over the subject.  Best to do what your commander says (assuming they are keeping safety in consideration), so everyone is uniform.  Safety can say what they want, but in the end it is the commander's call and responsibility.

Otherwise sleeves up/down, was not going to curb whatever else they were doing wrong to allow 80 heat cases to happen.

When I was at OSUT at Ft. Benning, we were training in an area known as Bear's Den. About 1400, they got the word that the heat index had hit 105 so no more training that day. They had us take off our BDU tops and T-shirts. Put the BDU top back on and roll the sleeves about half way up the forearm. BDU pants were unbloused and rolled up to the top of the boots. Then we fell in and went back to the "starship". I don't know about rolling the pants or the top, but taking the T-shirt off felt like someone had turned on the AC.

[Spaceman3750]

When we talk about hydration and overheating, we're really talking about core body temperature, not necessarily how you feel temperature wise. I'm not convinced that wearing a BDU blouse vs. not has a significant impact on your core body temperature when properly hydrating. Frankly, I prefer to leave mine on with sleeves down and hydrating because then I avoid sunburn as well.

[ol'fido]

I didn't say take it off. Read it again.

[Spaceman3750]

I didn't say take it off. Read it again.

I wasn't really referring to your post specifically, just in general. It's something you hear a lot about when you start talking about heat and hydration.

[capchiro]

The wisdom of the current military/medical minds that sleeves rolled down is better in the sun/heat than up or off reminds me of their ultimate wisdom to take a handful of salt tables every time you went outside at Ft. Polk in the summer in 1967.  Gee, I wonder why I have high blood pressure now and an unquenchable desire for salt??

[Major Lord]

CAP's safety Nazis' er, I mean enthusiasts, may not realize that water is poisonous. Hyper-hydration can cause an electrolyte imbalance which causes brain cells to absorb fluid by osmosis and expand, which is a heck of a lot harder to diagnose and treat in the field ( sudden death and an empty Camelback are a positive sign) This results in increased intracranial pressure, with a host of nastiness occurring there. Its not a good idea to force water on someone generally. Salt tablets likewise must be used with great care, and are considered outdated and dangerous. They will also make you ralph like Linda Blair in the Exorcist if taken on an empty ( or water-filled) tummy.

If you are really concerned that an individual is severely dehydrated, test for "postural tachycardia". Have the victim lie down for a few minutes, while feeling their pulse, have them sit up ( with assistance if necessary) If the pulse rate skyrockets, and/or or they faint or vomit, you may not get much result from just having them drink water, since their electrolyte debt will make them give the water right back, usually on your shirt or shoes.

I have seen several cases of Cadets going into electrolyte debt severe enough to require IV fluid replenishment. These little badgers we take care of have a higher surface area to volume ratio than most adults do, and give up fluid faster in the same environments, but you need to be careful not to drown them.

Major Lord

[SarDragon]

Look up hyponatremia on WebMD, and Wikipedia. Both have excellent articles.

[Major Lord]

Well, I hope our Cadets problems are limited to Hypovolemic Hyponatremia, I would hate to think that we have a lot of Cadets  running around Encampments with Congestive Heart Failure or some of the the nastier causes.....( Those diseases are reserved for Seniors, and if they die, we just go through their pockets and split up their gear)

Major Lord

[HGjunkie]

( Those diseases are reserved for Seniors, and if they die, we just go through their pockets and split up their gear)

Crap, have I been doing it wrong this whole time?


On topic- It's really, really hard to over-hydrate if you're doing enough physical activity and going to the bathroom regularly enough. You have to force yourself to the point of puking back up water before you begin with water intoxication. It's just not feasible in an encampment setting.

[SarDragon]

I disagree. If you are drinking, and peeing, and drinking and peeing, to an excess, you will flush all those nice electrolytes right out of the body.

hypo - shortage; natros - salt

It's sneaky. That was partly a reason for the salt tablets, way back when.

[HGjunkie]

I disagree. If you are drinking, and peeing, and drinking and peeing, to an excess, you will flush all those nice electrolytes right out of the body.

hypo - shortage; natros - salt

It's sneaky. That was partly a reason for the salt tablets, way back when.

I understand the electrolyte situation when hydrating, but I was just saying that it's less likely to die from water intoxication than from electrolyte shortage.

[tsrup]

( Those diseases are reserved for Seniors, and if they die, we just go through their pockets and split up their gear)

Crap, have I been doing it wrong this whole time?


On topic- It's really, really hard to over-hydrate if you're doing enough physical activity and going to the bathroom regularly enough. You have to force yourself to the point of puking back up water before you begin with water intoxication. It's just not feasible in an encampment setting.

This is wrong wrong wrong wrong.

wrong.

With the varying backgrounds of all the different cadets that show up at encampment, this is a very likely scenario. 
Salt is lost with sweat.  Cadets who exert themselves sweat.  If that salt isn't replaced then they can end up hyponatremic.  Add in a preexisting condition then that can either exacerbate the condition, or make it more likely to happen.

Eat salt with your meals, and do what we do at encampment, we serve with each meal (IIRC) a half-half mix of gatorade (or equivalent sports beverage powder of choice).


The body depends on balance, and too much of even a good thing is bad.  Otherwise it wouldn't be called "too much".

[tsrup]

I disagree. If you are drinking, and peeing, and drinking and peeing, to an excess, you will flush all those nice electrolytes right out of the body.

hypo - shortage; natros - salt

It's sneaky. That was partly a reason for the salt tablets, way back when.

I understand the electrolyte situation when hydrating, but I was just saying that it's less likely to die from water intoxication than from electrolyte shortage.

What do you think water intoxication is?

[Major Lord]

Hopefully, we won't see many deaths from hypo or hyper-hydration in a closely monitored situation, like an encampment. My point ( besides looting the cool gear from dead Senior Members, the majority of whom we know to be in heavens waiting room anyway) is that it is entirely possible to force the "culture of hydration" on Cadets and Seniors with unforeseen consequences, and that SM's should be aware of mentation and physical changes in the cadets under their charge ( And since encampment is a type of brainwashing, its hard to establish a good baseline) Another interesting thing we think about frequently is how these concerns apply in very warm conditions, but hydration issues are not limited to high temperature extremes. The South Pole is colder then a well diggers hindquarters in the Klondike, but its about the driest place in the world. The air there could suck the fluids out of your body faster than a Congressman can kill his career on Twitter!

FYI, oral rehydration packets are cheap (and you can make your own with kitchen ingredients) and generally more effective at water and electrolyte replacement than watered down Gatorade ( which is not a bad choice if its what you have) When your body is out of juice, an IV infusion of saline solution feels like kisses from Sandra Bullock, so for those of you with the training, its not a bad thing to have a kit good to go....just in case.  In my go bag, I also keep a vial of B-12 (go juice for athletes)  I have not had to start a line on a human since Hurricane Katrina, and its doubtful I will ever do so again. With any luck.......

Major Lord

[JC004]

...
My point ( besides looting the cool gear from dead Senior Members, the majority of whom we know to be in heavens waiting room anyway)
...

[Skydude61]

NJWG BE 2010 Echo Flight:
Flt Sgt: Echo Flight DIVE, DIVE, DIVE!
Flt: (Submarine diving klaxon) OOOGA, OOOGA, OOOGA! (We did this while going down and squatting and holding our noses)
Flt Sgt: HYDRATE!
Flt: Ahhhhh

Pretty, uh, different. Haha

Lovely!!