Florida Encampment Staff

[AirAux]

In the tradition of the Air force, we call civilian members between the age of 12 and 18-21 Cadets.  They are no more the same as cadets at USAFA or USMA.  In the same vein we call new cadets at their first encampment Doolies.  Almost all basic encampments disregard a Cadet's CAP rank while attending as a first time attendee, therefore we do not recognize earned rank at the Basic Encampment.  Since all first time attendees are rankless, they may be addressed as Doolies as a sign of recognition and respect for our Beloved Parent, the USAF.  It's a heritage thing and almost all cadets do enjoy it and expect it.  It is probably one of the least insulting names they will be called at encampment..  If you disagree, you haven't been really involved in Basic Encampments..

[Eclipse]

In the tradition of the Air force, we call civilian members between the age of 12 and 18-21 Cadets.  They are no more the same as cadets at USAFA or USMA.  In the same vein we call new cadets at their first encampment Doolies.  Almost all basic encampments disregard a Cadet's CAP rank while attending as a first time attendee, therefore we do not recognize earned rank at the Basic Encampment.  Since all first time attendees are rankless, they may be addressed as Doolies as a sign of recognition and respect for our Beloved Parent, the USAF.  It's a heritage thing and almost all cadets do enjoy it and expect it.  It is probably one of the least insulting names they will be called at encampment..  If you disagree, you haven't been really involved in Basic Encampments..

I disgree.

[FlyTiger77]

...one of the least insulting names they will be called at encampment..  If you disagree, you haven't been really involved in Basic Encampments..

What, exactly, are the more insulting names your cadets are being called at their basic encampment? What specific training objective(s) is/are being met by insulting 12-18 year old young people?

[Майор Хаткевич]

In the tradition of the Air force, we call civilian members between the age of 12 and 18-21 Cadets.  They are no more the same as cadets at USAFA or USMA.  In the same vein we call new cadets at their first encampment Doolies.  Almost all basic encampments disregard a Cadet's CAP rank while attending as a first time attendee, therefore we do not recognize earned rank at the Basic Encampment.  Since all first time attendees are rankless, they may be addressed as Doolies as a sign of recognition and respect for our Beloved Parent, the USAF.  It's a heritage thing and almost all cadets do enjoy it and expect it.  It is probably one of the least insulting names they will be called at encampment..  If you disagree, you haven't been really involved in Basic Encampments..

I guess it's time to take off my encampment ribbon with 4 bronze clasps. Time to tell some other folks with some silver clasps the same. I can't believe that was posted by a Senior Member.

From the same article you cited:

Better Days for Doolies - TIME
Better Days for Doolies

Friday, Jan. 19, 1962
When a "doolie," a first-year man at the U.S. Air Force Academy, is braced by an upperclassman, he sucks in his gut, throws out his chest and brays: "Sir, a doolie is that insignificant whose rank is measured in negative units, one whose potential for learning is unlimited." At meals he sits at attention and lifts his fork from plate to mouth in the rectangular movement of a robot; he shouts his response when asked a question. Until not so long ago, when entering his dormitory, he had to rasp in intercom fashion: "Sir, Air Force Academy jet 201K turning base, three green."*
The new Air Academy began all this business six years ago by grafting its own lingo on a century-old tradition at West Point and Annapolis. It is not quite hazing; an upperclassman has to ask a doolie's permission to touch him, even to straighten his tie. But if the official term for the custom is only "harassment," it still licenses upperclassmen to make life miserable for new men on the theory that "weak sisters" will quit.
Eating at Ease. The doolies near Colorado Springs are about to win a measure of relief: they will soon begin—sitting at ease during meals. The change was the latest in a series of reforms by Academy Superintendent William S. Stone. A modern major general. Stone thinks that harassment does indeed fuel the attrition rate (which averaged 27% for the academy's first three classes), but that it is not necessarily the weak sisters who quit. Says Stone: "A lot of this stuff is sophomoric."
Upperclassmen used to bait doolies all weekend; now doolies may close their doors if they want to be alone. For the first time, doolies regularly visit faculty homes. "They're discovering that an officer is like any other American," says one faculty member. "He has a wife, kids, and weeds in the lawn. We don't just play bridge and get drunk all the time."
Attitude & Altitude. The results already show. By Christmas vacation in 1960, the doolie class of 772 had been reduced by 123, including 75 who quit because they abhorred the academy. By Christmas vacation in 1961, the doolie class of 802 had lost 61 men, including only 32 who left out of distaste.
The academy is not letting doolies off scot-free. To the hectoring question, "Mister, what is your altitude?" they must still recite the laborious answer:
"Sir, my altitude is 7,200 ft. above sea level, and far, far above that of West Point or Annapolis." But they must also memorize, and later teach new doolies, the 1879 thesis of Major General John M. Schofield: "The discipline which makes the soldiers of a free country reliable in battle is not to be gained by harsh or tyrannical treatment."
*Meaning: Cadet 201K is on the base leg of his final approach; three green cockpit lights signify that his landing gear is down and locked.

Here is a quite from the AFA Wiki:

Doolie is the original and "official" colloquialism for a fourth class cadet. It comes from the Greek word duolos, meaning slave.
In recent years it has fallen out of favor among cadets, who prefer to use the term smack. The term "Doolie" is generally used only in official Academy literature, and by Academy parents' clubs. Within the Cadet Wing, it only occasionally lives on in a combining form, such as in "Doolie swap", "Doolie knowledge" or "Doolie Day Out".

Should we start calling new cadets Smack?

[MSG Mac]

In the tradition of the Air force, we call civilian members between the age of 12 and 18-21 Cadets.  They are no more the same as cadets at USAFA or USMA.  In the same vein we call new cadets at their first encampment Doolies.  Almost all basic encampments disregard a Cadet's CAP rank while attending as a first time attendee, therefore we do not recognize earned rank at the Basic Encampment.  Since all first time attendees are rankless, they may be addressed as Doolies as a sign of recognition and respect for our Beloved Parent, the USAF.  It's a heritage thing and almost all cadets do enjoy it and expect it.  It is probably one of the least insulting names they will be called at encampment..  If you disagree, you haven't been really involved in Basic Encampments..

We also had special names for blacks, orientals, and other ethnic minorities, would you advocate using those terms also? Nowhere in any CAP publication is the term "Doolie" used. But there are several regulations which dictate  proper titles based on grade and in the case of Chaplains and Medical Personnel specialty.

[AirAux]

Well, it seems the vocal consensus is against tradition, which has always been big in the military and in CAP.  I am personally sooo tired of political correctness.  If you all had your head out of your third contact point, you would jump up and down about following the Reg's to support your arguement.  To attend basic encampment, all cadets must have earned the Curry at least and therefore have earned rank and deserve to be addressed by same.  It is against CAP Reg's to temporarily demote a cadet at any time or for him/her to wear any other rank than they have been awarded.  For this reason stripping a cadet of all rank or addressing him/her by anything other than their proper rank at basic encampment is against CAP Reg's.  It has been done TRADITIONALLY to simulate the experience of attending military boot camp, but it is still against Reg's.  So, let's see you all change your encampments regarding wearing of rank by Doolies..   

[BillB]

No matter if a cadet earned the Currey last month or is a C/MSgt, at an encampment they are basic Cadets. Prior to the 1990's 52-16, actually 50-16, cadets removed all grade insignia except for cadet staff to indicate they were attending their first encampment. Problems have developed, often out of sight of TACOs when a cadet at their first encampment whose earned rank is C/TSgt or higher tries to use authority over lower grade cadets who are on staff. All cadets attending their first encampment are basic cadets, regardless of earned grade.
And to answer a question someone asked, at my first encampment in 1946, I was called "Doolie".  Recently cadets are called Doolies for the first few days until learns their names. I've never heard a cadet complain about being calles a Doolie, only senior members seem to object to that.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I was a cadet and I objected/ still object to Doolies.

Calling a cadet at encampment cadet is not demoting them, and is within the regulations, but please do show me where the only proper address for a cadet is their earned grade, AirAux

We also never called Basic Attendees Basics.

And, when I addressed an individual cadet in my Basic Year as C/SSgt, 2nd Year as a C/MSgt, 3rd Year as a C/CMSgt 1st Sergeant, 4th year as a C/Capt Cadet Commander, or 5th year as a C/Capt StanEval Member, I always called them (grade insignia) Jones.

When addressing a bigger group, it was Cadets.

There simply is no room to use a derogatory term such as doolie, especially at an activity that averages under 1 week long.

[davidsinn]

I've never heard a cadet complain about being calles a Doolie, only senior members seem to object to that.

So just because black people didn't object to a derogatory term used to describe them in the 40s and 50s it's ok to use that term to describe them? The exact same logic applies.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I've never heard a cadet complain about being calles a Doolie, only senior members seem to object to that.

So just because black people didn't object to a derogatory term used to describe them in the 40s and 50s it's ok to use that term to describe them? The exact same logic applies.

Also consider that C/Amn Newbie doesn't have the stones to question superiors most of the time.

[AirAux]

"So just because black people didn't object to a derogatory term used to describe them in the 40s and 50s it's ok to use that term to describe them? The exact same logic applies."  davidsinn, this isn't the first time you have thrown racism into a discussion when it wasn't an issue to the discussion, but, since you started it again... 

The fact that they (black people) use the term themselves would seem to indicate their acceptance to the terminology and perpetuation of same.  It's hard to have it both ways.  Black people can be racist, but not white people?  That makes no sense at all.  The amazing thing is that they don't think or realize that they are capable of racism themselves.  To have the NAACP, BIG (Blacks in Government) and the Black Miss USA is totally racist and yet we pretend that it's not..  By being forced to accept this nonsense we perpetuate and increase racism all the more.  Either we are all human beings OR some of us are more special than others and entitled to our special rules..  No KKK, No NAACP, No White Miss USA, No Black Miss USA, etc, etc..

[MIKE]

I can see where this is headed...

[Майор Хаткевич]

We need to either get back on track, or get this one put down.

The original question has been answered, having morphed into a discussion of terminology.

If possible, pulling out the Doolie discussion into it's own thread is the best course, as well as removing some left field posts completely.

[AirAux]

In Answer to an above post, we kind of morphed the term basic cadet and cadet into the same thing.  What I was referring to, is if one calls a c/A1C a basic at encampment, they have demoted him by doing so.  To call all and any cadets, "cadets", is quite all right.. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

In Answer to an above post, we kind of morphed the term basic cadet and cadet into the same thing.  What I was referring to, is if one calls a c/A1C a basic at encampment, they have demoted him by doing so.  To call all and any cadets, "cadets", is quite all right.. 

I've never heard anyone call a "Basic Encampment" Cadet as "Basic". Cadet, Airman, C/(Grade), etc have all been used. Basic is not one of them.

[davidsinn]

In Answer to an above post, we kind of morphed the term basic cadet and cadet into the same thing.  What I was referring to, is if one calls a c/A1C a basic at encampment, they have demoted him by doing so.  To call all and any cadets, "cadets", is quite all right.. 

I've never heard anyone call a "Basic Encampment" Cadet as "Basic". Cadet, Airman, C/(Grade), etc have all been used. Basic is not one of them.

I use it as a classification only. If I am discussing a group that is only comprised of first time attendees I'll call them basics. If I am discussing a single first time attendee I'll call them by rank/name if I know it or simply cadet/name if I don't.

"So just because black people didn't object to a derogatory term used to describe them in the 40s and 50s it's ok to use that term to describe them? The exact same logic applies."  davidsinn, this isn't the first time you have thrown racism into a discussion when it wasn't an issue to the discussion, but, since you started it again... 

The fact that they (black people) use the term themselves would seem to indicate their acceptance to the terminology and perpetuation of same.  It's hard to have it both ways.  Black people can be racist, but not white people?  That makes no sense at all.  The amazing thing is that they don't think or realize that they are capable of racism themselves.  To have the NAACP, BIG (Blacks in Government) and the Black Miss USA is totally racist and yet we pretend that it's not..  By being forced to accept this nonsense we perpetuate and increase racism all the more.  Either we are all human beings OR some of us are more special than others and entitled to our special rules..  No KKK, No NAACP, No White Miss USA, No Black Miss USA, etc, etc..

Let me try and explain a little better. I will not use the term I was alluding to. I do not appreciate it when others do. We do not use that term today even though it was a common term in the past because of its abhorrent derogatory nature used to remind a people "of their place" in society.

The term doolie, as was pointed out above, is descended from the Greek word for slave and is also used to remind a class of people of "their place." It has no place in an organization that strives to help people better themselves.

I was not trying to drag racism into the discussion but was making my point very strongly that the same justifications being brought up in this thread to defend the term doolie is the same justification that allowed the other term to survive as it did. Neither have a place in society.

[Ned]

I've never heard anyone call a "Basic Encampment" Cadet as "Basic". Cadet, Airman, C/(Grade), etc have all been used. Basic is not one of them.

California Wing has used the term "basic" to describe non-staff cadets since their current encampment model was developed some time ago.  They incorporated the term in their venerable Encampment Training Manual, which has in turn influenced encampments in several other wings.

Other wings also use the term, which may or may not trace lineage to the CAWG model.

BTW, CAWG selected the term because we believed very strongly that perjorative terms commonly in use were inappropriate for a CAP encampment.  And I believe that our current Core Value of Respect prohibits the use of terms like  doolie, smack, plebe, boot, etc.

Ned Lee


Ned Lee
CAWG Encampment Enthusiast

[HGjunkie]

In Answer to an above post, we kind of morphed the term basic cadet and cadet into the same thing.  What I was referring to, is if one calls a C/A1C a basic at encampment, they have demoted him by doing so.  To call all and any cadets, "cadets", is quite all right..

Fix'd

[AirAux]

My Answer was in response to BillB's, "No matter if a cadet earned the Currey last month or is a C/MSgt, at an encampment they are basic Cadets." However, since then, Ned Lee noted,  "California Wing has used the term "basic" to describe non-staff cadets since their current encampment model was developed some time ago.  They incorporated the term in their venerable Encampment Training Manual, which has in turn influenced encampments in several other wings.

Other wings also use the term, which may or may not trace lineage to the CAWG model.

BTW, CAWG selected the term because we believed very strongly that perjorative terms commonly in use were inappropriate for a CAP encampment.  And I believe that our current Core Value of Respect prohibits the use of terms like  doolie, smack, plebe, boot, etc."

Which, brings me back to the fact that a C/A1C is no more a "Basic" than he is a "Doolie" and he should either be addressed as Cadet or Cadet First Class and not "Basic" for the term of the encampment.  To call a cadet "Basic" is in fact demoting him for the time he is at encampment and against CAP Reg's.

[HGjunkie]

Which, brings me back to the fact that a C/A1C is no more a "Basic" than he is a "Doolie" and he should either be addressed as Cadet or Cadet Airman First Class and not "Basic" for the term of the encampment.  To call a cadet "Basic" is in fact demoting him for the time he is at encampment and against CAP Reg's.

Fix'd