Blue Beret Awards

[Майор Хаткевич]

Negative.  The policy letter put out by NHQ authorizes the wear of the Blue Beret, Ranger Tab, and "Dog dish" in the BDU cover while in the BDU uniform.  They removed the verbage of commander discretion.

Nope.

I'd even follow up this unknown memo, by saying that removal of verbiage does not equate to removal of authority.

[MICT1362]

My apologies for citing an ICL.  Here, however, is a cite.  Far more than two sentences, and as you can plainly see they did take out the part about discretion...


August 2006 National Board Minutes (Pg 50)

4. ITEM: Wear of Blue Beret and Hawk Mountain Uniforms & Devices

COL FAGAN/MO MOVED AND COL LEVITCH/FL SECONDED that the National
Board vote to allow wear of the Blue Beret and Hawk Mountain head gear by
cadets and senior members on both the BDUs and dress uniform.

COL NELSON/CA MOVED TO AMEND AND COL OPLAND/DE SECONDED the
amendment to allow wear of both activity head gear only on BDUs.

MOTION TO AMEND CARRIED

COL DAVIES/NATCAP MOVED TO AMEND AND COL FAGAN/MO SECONDED the
amendment to allow wear of head gear at the discretion of wing commanders.

MOTION DID NOT PASS

MAJ GEN PINEDA RESTATED THE AMENDED MOTION: The members can wear
the head gear that they get at Hawk Mountain and Blue Beret with their blue BDUs
and green BDUs only.

COL LEVITCH/FL MOVED TO AMEND AND COL APPLEBAUM/PA SECONDED the
amendment to allow the wear of any awarded items that go on the uniform or the
head from Hawk Mountain and Blue Beret with BDUs only.

MOTION TO AMEND CARRIED

COL OPLAND/DE MOVED TO AMEND to allow wear of any distinctive head gear
awarded at any national special cadet activities.

MOTION TO AMEND DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND

ANOTHER RESTATEMENT OF THE AMENDED MOTION: All members that attend
the Blue Beret and national Hawk Mountain training can wear any awarded items
that go on the uniform or the head gear with their BDUs, blue or green.

AMENDED MOTION CARRIED

FOLLOW-ON ACTION: National Headquarters implementation of policy, notification to
the field and change to appropriate CAP regulations.

[Eclipse]

...and as you can plainly see they did take out the part about discretion...

Where...

[MICT1362]

[

COL DAVIES/NATCAP MOVED TO AMEND AND COL FAGAN/MO SECONDED the
amendment to allow wear of head gear at the discretion of wing commanders.

MOTION DID NOT PASS

How about right there.... Or does that not clear it up enough?

[NCRblues]

"COL DAVIES/NATCAP MOVED TO AMEND AND COL FAGAN/MO SECONDED the
amendment to allow wear of head gear at the discretion of wing commanders.

MOTION DID NOT PASS"

and in your words eclipse "DUH"

[arajca]

Note 1 to Table 1-1, CAPM 39-1

The National Commander and other commanders may specify the wear of a particular uniform type
for the purpose of achieving a uniform appearance at squadron, group, wing, region, and national
functions. However, all commanders must be mindful of the objective of attaining a neatly
uniformed appearance at a minimum of personal expense to the individual member and will
consequently refrain from imposing unreasonable uniform requirements.

The unit commander CAN say all members in bdus will wear the patrol cap to unit meetings.

[Майор Хаткевич]

FOLLOW-ON ACTION: National Headquarters implementation of policy, notification to
the field and change to appropriate CAP regulations.

This never took place. Further memos came out stating the need for AF approval of the changes, which has had no traction in more than two years. There is nothing out of NHQ on the proper wear of any mentioned items.

Squadron commanders can still dictate what uniform will be worn at the local level. So can activity commanders. What I see was defeated was the option for a Wing commander to have complete discretion on the subject.

P.S. I got signed out and arajca beat me to it.

[NCRblues]

If we want to go down that road, than every single person wearing the TPU is in violation of regs because the air force never gave the thumbs up....ever...and ill go ahead and just say it, cite it if they did. (because they did not)

[Майор Хаткевич]

If we want to go down that road, than every single person wearing the TPU is in violation of regs because the air force never gave the thumbs up....ever...and ill go ahead and just say it, cite it if they did. (because they did not)

Apples and Oranges, but you just like being a PITA it seems Sir.

That's a Corporate Uniform, that DID get AF input - that's why it's on the way out.

Approval of wear on the AF uniform of anything new requires AF input.

[NCRblues]

Prove to me the AF put input in on it....CITE PLEASE

I also seem to remember TONS of people on here arguing to keep the CSU, so its ok to say we can tell the AF to shove it on one uniform aspect because you like it, but not on the beret because you dont like it?

[MICT1362]

This never took place. Further memos came out stating the need for AF approval of the changes, which has had no traction in more than two years. 

Can you produce these memos?

[jeders]

Prove to me the AF put input in on it....CITE PLEASE

I also seem to remember TONS of people on here arguing to keep the CSU, so its ok to say we can tell the AF to shove it on one uniform aspect because you like it, but not on the beret because you dont like it?

Corporate uniforms don't require the AF approval that the AF-style uniforms do. This is also why the beret isn't authorized outside of NBB and the boonie isn't authorized in AF-style BDUs.

This never took place. Further memos came out stating the need for AF approval of the changes, which has had no traction in more than two years. 

Can you produce these memos?

How about right here, paragraph 2.

[NCRblues]

All uniform changes must have AF approval now, including corporate because of the CSU TPU incident....

[MICT1362]

I have seen your memo, which does not specify any specific items.  It simply says some items...

[arajca]

I also seem to remember TONS of people on here arguing to keep the CSU, so its ok to say we can tell the AF to shove it on one uniform aspect because you like it, but not on the beret because you dont like it?

Many people were (and are) arguing for keeping the CSU, however, no one is saying to wear it after the phase out date. People are not telling the AF to shove it in regards to the CSU - it is still authorized for a few more months - they want to AF to change its decision, but will honor the current decision, regardless of our personal opinion. This is markedly different from those wanting to wear the blue cowpie beret regardless of what anyone in the chain of command says.

[Eclipse]

NCR and MICT - the follow up ICL's to these issues are easily accessible on NHQ's site and have been beaten to death here before.

The "discretion" above is whether a wing cc chooses to allow it, not removing the local CC's authority to prescribe or prohibit certain uniform items.

The other arguments are just making noise to try and argue other places the regs have issues - yes, they are a mess, we get that, but thanks for the reminder.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I have seen your memo, which does not specify any specific items.  It simply says some items...

Were you around between 2006-2008?

2. Several other uniform proposals were approved but require the approval of the Air
Force before implementation. When this approval is received these items will be
announced. The items listed above will be incorporated into the next revision of CAPM
39-1.

IS in regards to the Beret and Whistles, because that was the time when NHQ was being bombarded with questions on the minutes you posted a few posts up. Note also that the ICL is quite a bit after the 2006 initial approval, but right when the NatCC was still Interim.

[CadetProgramGuy]

ANOTHER RESTATEMENT OF THE AMENDED MOTION: All members that attend
the Blue Beret and national Hawk Mountain training can wear any awarded items
that go on the uniform or the head gear with their BDUs, blue or green.

AMENDED MOTION CARRIED

FOLLOW-ON ACTION: National Headquarters implementation of policy, notification to
the field and change to appropriate CAP regulations.

[Eclipse]

^Which is the key and final statement, and a total of two sentences.

[MICT1362]

Were you around between 2006-2008? 

Uh, yes. In fact I was.