Oh My.......

[Flying Pig]

The CA Highway Patrol and San Bernardino County Sheriff has selected the GA8 Airvan as their new platform of to replace their T206H's.  I wonder if whoever decided this actually spent 4-6hrs a day in one.   Just so many other airframes out there.....  Father forgive them for they know not what they do.  I guess for that they are going to use them for... its not to bad though.   They were looking at Quest Kodiaks but that was going to be an unbelievable purchase price.  Should look good with the CHP paint scheme.   The CHP is putting the MX15 on their airplanes with AeroComputers and they are slowly starting to replace their helicopters for patrol and are using the planes for patrol functions more now, leaving the helicopters for EMS and SAR missions. 

http://www.8viation.com/en/oem/all/others/1301-mahindra-aerospace-s-ga8-airvan-wins-california-highway-patrol-competitive-bid

[A.Member]

We should sell ours to them.  Seriously. 

At least one of us would end up a winner in the deal.  Mahindra Aerospace/Gipps Aero must have some killer sales guys.

[PHall]

I bet there will be new seats on those birds in short order.
"Outstanding High and Hot performance"?   They're not talking about the version CAP got.

[NC Hokie]

Oh look, they even use CAP in their sales pitch:

"Successfully flying ISR missions internationally since 2003, the Airvan is in daily service in the United States with 16 flown by the USAF Auxiliary Civil Air Patrol."

[Alaric]

I love the GA-8 as a platform for photography, I think its the best we have.  That being said, I have never ridden in the front seats.

[Flying Pig]

Every Airvan ad I have read, I think mentions CAP.   They just fail to mention that CAP doesn't really use them for anything. 

[lordmonar]

We should sell ours to them.  Seriously. 

At least one of us would end up a winner in the deal.  Mahindra Aerospace/Gipps Aero must have some killer sales guys.

No!  We should put the MX-15 on ours and get them out into the field doing Missions for America!

[Flying Pig]

Go with the MX10

[A.Member]

We should sell ours to them.  Seriously. 

At least one of us would end up a winner in the deal.  Mahindra Aerospace/Gipps Aero must have some killer sales guys.

No!  We should put the MX-15 on ours and get them out into the field doing Missions for America!

We don't need them.  Sell the GA-8s and we can use the proceeds to actually by a MX-15 (or MX-10) and have them installed on 172/182 that actually get flown.

BTW, this would actually be my choice of an IR/camera gimball for CAP use:  TASE200

It's much more cost effective and provides more than enough performance with ease of use for our purposes, not to mention they have an easy, non-structual strut mount.  At the price point we could afford to equip many more airframes with useable and accepted technology.

[lordmonar]

If you had a ball on the GA-8 it would get flown.

[A.Member]

If you had a ball on the GA-8 it would get flown.

It's performance is lackluster (no better than a 172).  It's not a "familiar" airframe.  It requires two crew.  Per hour cost is high.  Etc.   It's a poor aircraft choice for us. 

Our value proposition is ease of use and cost effective.  That's the Cessna airframe.  K.I.S.S. should be the unwritten rule of our organization.

[Flying Pig]

We should sell ours to them.  Seriously. 

At least one of us would end up a winner in the deal.  Mahindra Aerospace/Gipps Aero must have some killer sales guys.

No!  We should put the MX-15 on ours and get them out into the field doing Missions for America!

We don't need them.  Sell them and we can use the proceeds to actually by a MX-15 (or MX-10) and have them installed on 172/182 that actually get flown.

BTW, this would actually be my choice for CAP use:  TASE200

It's much more cost effective and provides more than enough performance with ease of use for our purposes, not to mention they have an easy, non-structual strut mount.  At the price point we could afford to equip many more airframes with useable and accepted technology.

Quite honestly man.... that stuff is junk.   CAP would be better served staying out of the IR business vs buying that stuff.  Ive operationally used the MX15, MX10 pretty much all models of the FLIR..8000, 8500, Ultra9HD, Safire, StarFire and even the new 380HD, Wescam models.  Those low budget gimbals are like doing a surveillance with a $15 set of Walmart Binos.

[A.Member]

We should sell ours to them.  Seriously. 

At least one of us would end up a winner in the deal.  Mahindra Aerospace/Gipps Aero must have some killer sales guys.

No!  We should put the MX-15 on ours and get them out into the field doing Missions for America!

We don't need them.  Sell them and we can use the proceeds to actually by a MX-15 (or MX-10) and have them installed on 172/182 that actually get flown.

BTW, this would actually be my choice for CAP use:  TASE200

It's much more cost effective and provides more than enough performance with ease of use for our purposes, not to mention they have an easy, non-structual strut mount.  At the price point we could afford to equip many more airframes with useable and accepted technology.

Quite honestly man.... that stuff is junk.   CAP would be better served staying out of the IR business vs buying that stuff.  Ive operationally used the MX15, MX10 pretty much all models of the FLIR..8000, 8500, Ultra9HD, Safire, StarFire and even the new 380HD, Wescam models.  Those low budget gimbals are like doing a surveillance with a $15 set of Walmart Binos.

Can you expand on that? 

I've seen their demos and their performance seems more than adequate for our use.  Remember, we're not LEOs using this stuff on a daily basis.

Video example (on par with what I've seen):
TASE200 Gimbal - Daylight Camera - Scene Steering - Truck Fire

[sardak]

The three CAP planes I'm aware of (WYWG 182 and 206, NDWG 182) are all equipped with the FLIR 8500. The planes are modified by Paravion in Fort Collins, CO, which also does the SP ball mods for CAP, and is the company GippAero/Mahindra uses for their ISR mods.

Mike

[Flying Pig]

If CAP is going to go out and perform "Missions for America" they need to use the proper equipment.  If CAP cant find the funding for the equipment needed, CAP needs to stay out of that mission.  Not attempt to provide the Dollar Store solution to real world problems.  Ive flown with the exact system you mentioned.  Again.....   the IR feature is pretty lacking.  The color camera is what it is.   More airplanes with lower grade low budget technology or few planes with mission equipment performance that customers expect?  Id go with quality not quantity.

[sardak]

The funding for the systems on all three CAP planes came from their states. The wings just installed what their customers bought.

Mike

[A.Member]

If CAP is going to go out and perform "Missions for America" they need to use the proper equipment.  If CAP cant find the funding for the equipment needed, CAP needs to stay out of that mission.  Not attempt to provide the Dollar Store solution to real world problems.  Ive flown with the exact system you mentioned.  Again.....   the IR feature is pretty lacking.  The color camera is what it is.   More airplanes with lower grade low budget technology or few planes with mission equipment performance that customers expect?  Id go with quality not quantity.

I don't disagree but there is a balance between cost and quality (and price does not necessarily equal quality; that doesn't mean a lower cost solution is "Dollar Store" either). 

Our mission requirements are not necessrily the same as those of LEOs or military.  We don't need enough detail to determine what someone is holding.  We plow along at 90kts, 1000' ft AGL.   We just need to identify that a potential target exists (usually person size or larger).  If so, we send a ground team to investigate further.  As a result, we don't need a Raytheon AN/AAS-52.  Nonetheless, some agencies clearly have found some of the lower priced options to be acceptable at some level.  Ex:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_fPBb6IHOE&feature=player_embedded#

TASE400 Gimbal - MWIR and Daylight Camera - Zoom in Residential Area

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KQSJ4Gq0Y9Q#

The question is where that crossroad of diminishing returns lies?  What is the best bang for our buck?   It's a discussion worth having. 

Is the TASE200 the best solution? If not, maybe the TASE400 is?  Either way, I strongly believe we do not need to spend $400+K per unit to have an effective solution (now if you find me donors, I'll take them but I don't exactly see a line of those).

[A.Member]

The funding for the systems on all three CAP planes came from their states. The wings just installed what their customers bought.

Mike

Concur.   They also did it a time when states were looking to blow money on virtually anything with HLS tied to it. 

Now, if we could get all the remaining states to do the same...multiple times over (not likely).

[NIN]

I'll volunteer to shoot photos out of the GA-8 from the open door.

I'll even supply the parachute.

[Eclipse]

If you had a ball on the GA-8 it would get flown.

Really?

And where do the pilots come from?

Adding an ASP to an airplane doesn't grow pilots.