The CAP NCO Program - your experience?

[JohhnyD]

One other point, how many of the officers in your unit have had recent Honor Guard experience?

[Mitchell 1969]

What's this myth about confusion existing as to the roles and authorities of CAP members in relation to USAF personnel?

I can only speak to my personal experiences, but I've encountered confusion from military personnel (enlisted and officers) more than once. The language used varies, but essentially a group will send one sacrificial lamb over and politely ask if they may ask a question (a bit redundant - but whatever). The question is typically some variation of "what branch are you?" followed by "do we have to salute you?". It's the answer to the latter question that sends them off like giddy elementary school kids skipping back to their group to share their new intel.

There was certainly no harm done by any of the confusion in the handful of times it's happened to me, but but it does happen.

Over the last 48 years of wearing Officer insignia (cadet and senior), on somewhere around 20+ Air Force bases, not once have I been asked "do we have to salute you?"


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[Mitchell 1969]

Join the National Command Chief as he speaks about the value of the NCO Corps to the Civil Air Patrol.

"When I joined in 2003 and I got this card in the mail that said 2nd Lt, I was insulted!"

            - Chief Master Sergeant Robert Dandridge, 2020 National Conference Presentation

I hope he meant well. Or at least meant...something. Besides insulting those of us who don't have much choice in the matter. For us, it's either Officer or nothing, no third option.


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[JohhnyD]

Join the National Command Chief as he speaks about the value of the NCO Corps to the Civil Air Patrol.

"When I joined in 2003 and I got this card in the mail that said 2nd Lt, I was insulted!"

            - Chief Master Sergeant Robert Dandridge, 2020 National Conference Presentation

I hope he meant well. Or at least meant...something. Besides insulting those of us who don't have much choice in the matter. For us, it's either Officer or nothing, no third option.


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Core values would suggest assuming he meant well and also meant no insult. YMMV.

[Spam]

Join the National Command Chief as he speaks about the value of the NCO Corps to the Civil Air Patrol.

"When I joined in 2003 and I got this card in the mail that said 2nd Lt, I was insulted!"

            - Chief Master Sergeant Robert Dandridge, 2020 National Conference Presentation

I hope he meant well. Or at least meant...something. Besides insulting those of us who don't have much choice in the matter. For us, it's either Officer or nothing, no third option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Core values would suggest assuming he meant well and also meant no insult. YMMV.

Core values would suggest that he should not have made the comment in the first place.

"I work for a living", "***** college boys" and similar insults to commissioned professionals have no place and neither do elitist comments denigrating professional enlisted men and women.

In a CAP context, in that as CAP members we are all civilians in a civilian nonprofit, all such comments are yet another aspect of the massive, self important costume play (with multiple costumes) by which SOME prior service (officer/enlisted) play at still being relevant in their former military roles and SOME non prior service play act as if they were in the real military in which they never served a day. When those cosplay acts morph into reenacting the Hollywood stereotypes of years past, it is neither helpful to our cadet charges nor to our CAP missions to allow the divisive jokes and insults free play.

At the end of the day, we are all fake Sergeants, fake Captains, fake Colonels, within a CAP context. We shouldn't ever forget that or let the costume play color our real relationships and influence us to keep stereotypical insults alive.

As Mister Dandrige apparently did, in a very public role.

R/s
Mister (not LTC, CAP, today) Spam

[JohhnyD]

At the end of the day, we are all fake Sergeants, fake Captains, fake Colonels, within a CAP context. We shouldn't ever forget that or let the costume play color our real relationships and influence us to keep stereotypical insults alive.

Nope, we earn our grade. Sorry, in my opinion your disrespect of that is sad.

[Spam]

At the end of the day, we are all fake Sergeants, fake Captains, fake Colonels, within a CAP context. We shouldn't ever forget that or let the costume play color our real relationships and influence us to keep stereotypical insults alive.

Nope, we earn our grade. Sorry, in my opinion your disrespect of that is sad.

Respectfully submit that a CAP "Lieutenant" does not hold a commission from the Congress of the United States and does not serve at the pleasure of the CinC to command US forces. He is therefore a "Lieutenant" for the purposes of a volunteer civilian organization, no more and no less an "officer" than someone who earned merit badges and certificates in a recreational quilting league.

Earned? Sure, in context. I respect the accomplishment of the training but at the end of the day yes, we are all playing dress up, and need to (as Shatner said on his famous Star Trek skit on SNL):  "get a life". If we've lived a past life as a cadet, or active duty, thats great and honorable, but CAP grade is honorary and pretend, reflective grade rather than actual grade.

I stand by the statements.

V/r
Spam

[Holding Pattern]

At the end of the day, we are all fake Sergeants, fake Captains, fake Colonels, within a CAP context. We shouldn't ever forget that or let the costume play color our real relationships and influence us to keep stereotypical insults alive.

As Mister Dandrige apparently did, in a very public role.

R/s
Mister (not LTC, CAP, today) Spam

Perhaps I'm missing the respect component of calling everyone's advancement of grade "fake."

Can you clarify how this statement is respectful of the work that tens of thousands of members put in to achieve their respective grades?

[Spam]

Arguing about CAP "NCO" and "Officer" roles, and all the attendant uniforms and so forth, is like having a fight an SF Con over the tactics of the Klingons and Cardassians.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmagzq

What we all did in a past life - is past. Holy cow people, lets get a life.

V/r
Spam 
"No! Don't nonrenew me! I was just pretending to be Evil Spam from Mirror Mirror"

[Spam]

At the end of the day, we are all fake Sergeants, fake Captains, fake Colonels, within a CAP context. We shouldn't ever forget that or let the costume play color our real relationships and influence us to keep stereotypical insults alive.

As Mister Dandrige apparently did, in a very public role.

R/s
Mister (not LTC, CAP, today) Spam

Perhaps I'm missing the respect component of calling everyone's advancement of grade "fake."

Can you clarify how this statement is respectful of the work that tens of thousands of members put in to achieve their respective grades?

OK, Pattern, is "pretend" better? "Pretend Major", "Play Chief"?

Earned military grades deserve respect and thanks - I think we all agree on that. The CAP effort to complete PME and requirements to earn CAP Levels, likewise. But really... our grades are honorary and a CAP grade is not the same as a military one, however one earned it. That's my point.

Hitting a tender spot here, just like Shatner...

V/r
Spam

[etodd]

Technician, Senior, Master in your track. Those are real. You study/work for them and have experience requirements.

MS, MO, AP, MP, MRO, PIO, GTL, IC1, etc, etc.  You study/work for them and have experience requirements.

All the above mean more to the success of the program than grade ever will be. Those of you who remember me from five years ago, remember that I said I would be happy just being "Senior Member". I still feel that way. After the six month period went by the CC made me a 2nd Lt without asking. Oh well.  And then the next step, was my Wing Commander "asking nicely" that as many as possible get to level II, so yes, I did the online OBC and then SLS on a Saturday, so here I sit 1st Lt.  On my 101 card anyway. Never received a certificate, never asked for one, and of course will never order the bling since all I wear is polo. OK, yes .... I do have the Senior Mission Pilot wings on my polo, so you can laugh at me for that.

Yes, I'm the odd one here and I know it. But for me, its all about the JOBS. Training people to do them and helping us all to excel, so we can work these missions.

Search this forum. Heck, people been arguing these same args for many years about roles/rank/grade ... and will still be arguing for many more years. In the meantime, us workers bees will just keep busy getting jobs done.

JMHOs of course. Few ever agree. LOL

[JohhnyD]

The CAP effort to complete PME and requirements to earn CAP Levels, likewise. But really... our grades are honorary and a CAP grade is not the same as a military one, however one earned it. That's my point.

Hitting a tender spot here, just like Shatner...

V/r
Spam

Nope, it is clear, you appear to hold all CAP grade in contempt while you look down on Chief Dandridge for not wanting to go from Command Chief to 2nd Lt.

I get it. You have no respect for what CAP rank/grade represents. And yet you also appear to mock the veterans who want to be NCOs. Cognitive dissonance much?

Q.E.D.

[Holding Pattern]

At the end of the day, we are all fake Sergeants, fake Captains, fake Colonels, within a CAP context. We shouldn't ever forget that or let the costume play color our real relationships and influence us to keep stereotypical insults alive.

As Mister Dandrige apparently did, in a very public role.

R/s
Mister (not LTC, CAP, today) Spam

Perhaps I'm missing the respect component of calling everyone's advancement of grade "fake."

Can you clarify how this statement is respectful of the work that tens of thousands of members put in to achieve their respective grades?

OK, Pattern, is "pretend" better? "Pretend Major", "Play Chief"?

Earned military grades deserve respect and thanks - I think we all agree on that. The CAP effort to complete PME and requirements to earn CAP Levels, likewise. But really... our grades are honorary and a CAP grade is not the same as a military one, however one earned it. That's my point.

Hitting a tender spot here, just like Shatner...

V/r
Spam

Only in that you are disrespecting yourself and the membership repeatedly are you "hitting a tender spot."

Do you consider adherence to the core values to be a fake thing too?

[SarDragon]

OK, bacon won the poll.

OTOH, no one else did, and there seems to be very little chance that anyone's mind to going to get changed.

So, on that note, an E♭, We once again end our fruitless discussion.

Click.