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CAP Reflective Vests

Started by RiverAux, October 21, 2008, 08:36:22 PM

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RiverAux

They should have used the command patch rather than the Seal.  That would match what we've got on our vehicles and planes and is much more appropriate for a field situation.  Another branding issue....

Eclipse

Quote from: RiverAux on October 21, 2008, 08:36:22 PM
They should have used the command patch rather than the Seal.  That would match what we've got on our vehicles and planes and is much more appropriate for a field situation.  Another branding issue....

These vests pre-date the MAJCOM's existence.

"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux

We've had it now for what, 5 years?  Maybe a few more? So long as they're not making new ones with that design, I suppose I'm fine with them trying to sell out the old stock. 

Eclipse

Quote from: RiverAux on October 21, 2008, 10:25:55 PM
We've had it now for what, 5 years?  Maybe a few more? So long as they're not making new ones with that design, I suppose I'm fine with them trying to sell out the old stock. 

Sadly, they are...  :( although certainly the CAP seal is still an appropriate insignia, the MAJCOM would be better.


And I think this type of "vest" is much more suited to the kind of work we do.


Why these are being made in yellow to the exclusion of orange is a mystery to me.

"That Others May Zoom"

stratoflyer

Don't knock hard or they'll make it a worse color!  >:D
"To infinity, and beyond!"

Eduardo Rodriguez, 2LT, CAP

PHall

Quote from: Eclipse on October 21, 2008, 11:48:07 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on October 21, 2008, 10:25:55 PM
We've had it now for what, 5 years?  Maybe a few more? So long as they're not making new ones with that design, I suppose I'm fine with them trying to sell out the old stock. 

Sadly, they are...  :( although certainly the CAP seal is still an appropriate insignia, the MAJCOM would be better.


And I think this type of "vest" is much more suited to the kind of work we do.


Why these are being made in yellow to the exclusion of orange is a mystery to me.


Because OSHA has determined that yellow is more visable then orange. Especially under low light conditions.

Eclipse

Quote from: PHall on October 22, 2008, 12:44:44 AM
Because OSHA has determined that yellow is more visable then orange. Especially under low light conditions.

Which my own eyes agree with, however VG is the supplier of record for CAP, not OSHA, and these are new, custom items mad for CAP.

The last revision of 39-1 made the "safety vest" a uniform item (I think to try and make its wear easier to mandate), and defines a "safety vest" as "orange".
Quote from: CAPM 39-1, Page 63, Table 2-3
Safety Vest Orange plastic, mesh, or cloth. Will be worn when participating in ground team activities.

So now Joe Member goes on VG, buys the slick vest, shows up to a mission with big smile, and a GTL, etc., would be well within their rights to tell them to "take it off".


"That Others May Zoom"

Dutchboy

Very good point there!  CAPM 39-1, Page 63, Table 2-3 does say that. Looks like another rewrite of the regs may be coming?

alamrcn

This wouldn't be the first time our regs and/or policies changed because of what the Bookstore, CAPMart or Vanguard did.

I always think back to the Smurf Suits issue....

National - "The end-of-wear date for the blue jumpsuit is..."
Bookstore - "We just got in a ton of them!"
National - <retracted, tabled>



Ace Browning, Maj, CAP
History Hoarder
71st Wing, Minnesota

heliodoc

For all of the above posts

MAYBE CAP could LOOK at the trends of all the other responder agencies and see what industry and OSHA is doing instead of CAP always trying to go it alone and try always "improving" uniforms.

Look at everyone else in the SAR world and tie it together rather than running off reams of paper and gigabytes of data just to support 39-1 and all its ICL's

Try for a rewrite of 39-1 lets' say by Feb 2009.. Right

IceNine

NHQ would be much better off if they just prescribed an ANSI rating instead of a color.

I would much rather see a member of my ground team in a yellow vest that is ANSI II or III compliant that to see them in an orange walmart brand non-reflective hunting vest.

YMMV
"All of the true things that I am about to tell you are shameless lies"

Book of Bokonon
Chapter 4

davidsinn

Quote from: IceNine on October 23, 2008, 03:40:53 PM
NHQ would be much better off if they just prescribed an ANSI rating instead of a color.

I would much rather see a member of my ground team in a yellow vest that is ANSI II or III compliant that to see them in an orange walmart brand non-reflective hunting vest.

YMMV

Indiana just passed a law that says all ES workers along a state or federal road MUST have a reflective vest. Just orange mesh won't cut it here anymore.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

isuhawkeye

that's not just an indiana thing.  its a federal DOT thing, and it applies to federally funded roadways

davidsinn

Quote from: isuhawkeye on October 23, 2008, 05:10:50 PM
that's not just an indiana thing.  its a federal DOT thing, and it applies to federally funded roadways

Maybe the IN law just extended it to state roads. I do know that pretty much all of my wings GT(myself included) are out of compliance when they even bother to wear the 39-1 mandated vest in the first place (I'm at least compliant there).
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

♠SARKID♠

I just got my new vest in the mail today; it fits well and is Really bright.  39-1 can keep its orange, I'm not going to get hit by a car because of a reg.  Two internal bottom pockets, one external pocket, one external pen pocket.

Jackson Safety - Road Warrior,  ANSI class III

RiverAux

You know, every state I am familiar with requires orange vests if you're hunting in the woods during certain seasons.  I've yet to hear of any going to yellow because of it being more visible.  I don't know if they're behind the times or have determined that orange is better for visibility in the woods.  We're wearing the vests primarily for increased visibility in the woods rather than roadside safety...

captrncap

Quote from: isuhawkeye on October 23, 2008, 05:10:50 PM
that's not just an indiana thing.  its a federal DOT thing, and it applies to federally funded roadways

I believe this is the exact regulation:

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/aprqtr/pdf/23cfr634.1.pdf

So does this mean, CAP NHQ should issues a ICL to reflect these changes?


ol'fido

#17
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on October 23, 2008, 06:17:49 PM
I just got my new vest in the mail today; it fits well and is Really bright.  39-1 can keep its orange, I'm not going to get hit by a car because of a reg.  Two internal bottom pockets, one external pocket, one external pen pocket.

Jackson Safety - Road Warrior,  ANSI class III

Absolutely! When the you-know-what hits the fan, I don't think anybody is going to be worried about whether your safety vest is orange or yellow. The main issue is safety not uniform compliance.  Tags - MIKE
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Pylon

Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

Eclipse

#19
Quote from: olefido on October 23, 2008, 07:29:00 PMWhen the you-know-what hits the fan, I don't think anybody is going to be worried about whether your safety vest is orange or yellow. The main issue is safety not uniform compliance. 

Actually, the main issue is the fact that despite a published standard for CAP, Vanguard has seen fit to produce something different.

The same "safety" argument was made for years regarding Gore-Tex jackets, and it didn't fly then either.

A safety issue is when you grab the nearest thing yo have to et the job done and stay "not dead".  Taking the conscious effort in advance to order a vest in the wrong color when you have the whole internet to choose from, and then falling back on the "safety" if someone makes an issue of it is not cricket.

I have a very nice lime-yellow vest I wear whenever I'm in a duty that doesn't specify color, otherwise its the orange SAR Med.

"That Others May Zoom"