Ribbons

[Capt M. Sherrod]

I'm sure that this has probably been discussed before, however, I'd like to get some feedback on what everyone thinks about wearing ribbons.  As a member of the "fat group", I only have the Aviator Combo and TPU available to me.  I prefer to wear everything that I am entitle to, but obviously that may not always be practical.  What are the board's thoughts on wearing ribbons to every meeting versus only to more dressy (Promotions, Awards Ceremonies, etc). situations.

-- Flame on.

[davedove]

I think you'll get different thoughts on this.  Some think it's tacky to wear your ribbons on the shirt and some don't care.

I tend to wear my ribbons with the grey/white combo, but many don't.  Then sometimes I don't want to go to the trouble of putting them on, so I don't.

Now, in my unit some do and some don't, so nobody stands out either way.  If no one else wore their ribbons and you did, you would stand out.  Likewise, if you didn't when everyone else did, you would also stand out.

So, I say it's up to you and your unit's habits.

[IceNine]

I too think your going to get a wide variety from this BUT

IMHO- Base what you wear off of the activity/function you are wearing it too.  For instance if I am wearing blues to a class I only wear my badges,  But if I am attending a promotion ceremony I wear everything.

[Eclipse]

Ditto, there's no reason to wear them everytime you button your shirt, I normally stick with just the badges.

They get worn and dirty, which, if you don't mind keeping them fresh is fine.

I normally recommend / prescribe wearing ribbons only for more ceremonious stuff, like if someone is receiving an award (or ribbon), etc., or if the event / activity will have a lot of outside members or the public.

The jelly beans >DO< act as a quick-reference resume for those who know how to read them, and HOW you wear them tells a lot about your attention to detail, but I don't think there's much point in wearing them to a staff meeting or similar (unless you have something shiny no one has seen before).

[MIKE]

Ribbons are for service dress, silly.  Just GT badge on the shirts.  I want to fit in with USAF officers and not look like a dork if at all possible.

[IceNine]

Ribbons are for service dress, silly.  Just GT badge on the shirts.  I want to fit in with USAF officers and not look like a dork if at all possible.

Yeah and everyone know's women hate dorks in uniform

[Hawk200]

I wear ribbons on the shirts, an old habit. Some think it's impressive, others ostentatious, but that doesn't matter to me. It's just a habit to wear them. I make a point to iron that shirt, slip on my rank, and pin on stuff, it's no big deal to put a ribbon rack on too.

[Capt M. Sherrod]

Ribbons are for service dress, silly.  Just GT badge on the shirts.  I want to fit in with USAF officers and not look like a dork if at all possible.

Capt, you'll note that I don't fit into the "service dress" category based on my initial post.  Based on your comment, I should never wear my ribbons.  I am quite proud of the fact that next month I will have completed Level 3, and I was looking for guidance on when would be appropriate to wear the ribbons.  But, thank you, for not paying attention to my overabundant (according to the regs) weight.

[IceNine]

Just for the record if you are particularly proud of a certain achievement then show that puppy off.  My only suggestion is be very aware of the condition of your ribbons.  Wearing dirty worn out ribbons is just as unprofessional as wearing a shirt that you picked up out of the dirty laundry pile.

[davedove]

Ribbons are for service dress, silly.  Just GT badge on the shirts.  I want to fit in with USAF officers and not look like a dork if at all possible.

Capt, you'll note that I don't fit into the "service dress" category based on my initial post.  Based on your comment, I should never wear my ribbons.  I am quite proud of the fact that next month I will have completed Level 3, and I was looking for guidance on when would be appropriate to wear the ribbons.  But, thank you, for not paying attention to my overabundant (according to the regs) weight.

If you wear the corporate service coat, you are REQUIRED to wear CAP ribbons, just as if you were wearing service dress.

[Capt M. Sherrod]

If you wear the corporate service coat, you are REQUIRED to wear CAP ribbons, just as if you were wearing service dress.

Fair enough, however, I could digress on a completely different tangent about the cost & poor service that is the evil empire / monopoly called Vanguard.

[RogueLeader]

I happen to wear my ribbons on my non-utility uniforms.  It is just my preference.  You follow yours.

[MIKE]

Ribbons are for service dress, silly.  Just GT badge on the shirts.  I want to fit in with USAF officers and not look like a dork if at all possible.

Capt, you'll note that I don't fit into the "service dress" category based on my initial post.  Based on your comment, I should never wear my ribbons.  I am quite proud of the fact that next month I will have completed Level 3, and I was looking for guidance on when would be appropriate to wear the ribbons.  But, thank you, for not paying attention to my overabundant (according to the regs) weight.

Maybe you didn't want to hear it that way but... Most USAF officers don't wear ribbons on the shirts, and that's why I have taken to not wearing them on my uniform as a senior.  Likewise I would not wear them on the aviator shirt with the blue or the gray epaulets for this reason, but I can't tell you how to wear your uniform... so, wear 'em if you want.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I agree with the ModeRanger.

I follow the Air Force folkway of wearing only your qualification badges on the shirt.  Yes, the reg both in CAP and the AF allows wear of ribbons on shirts, but even though allowed, certain things are not usually done.

There are a couple of exceptions I make to this rule:

1.  Kinda-ceremonial, special events at which the wear of the service jacket is proscribed, I wear the ribbons (and my tie) to sort of recognize that this event is special.

2.  Since I have active duty and combat ribbons, when I think it is helpful to silently, and discretely, announce the fact that I have service other than CAP volunteer time.   

[MIKE]

It's pronounced ModderAnger. 

[Hawk200]

... Most USAF officers don't wear ribbons on the shirts, and that's why I have taken to not wearing them on my uniform as a senior.  

From what I've seen, most USAF officers don't wear them because they don't have many. And for the most part they don't get much. I've seen numerous majors and lieutenant colonels with only six or seven when they retire. Which kind of puzzles me, because it seems like every general grade officer I've seen in the Air Force had anywhere from fourteen (at least) to twenty four. It's a bit puzzling, that they would have so many fewer at the capt throuugh lt col, but so many more when they have stars.

[Capt M. Sherrod]

Maybe you didn't want to hear it that way but... Most USAF officers don't wear ribbons on the shirts, and that's why I have taken to not wearing them on my uniform as a senior.  Likewise I would not wear them on the aviator shirt with the blue or the gray epaulets for this reason, but I can't tell you how to wear your uniform... so, wear 'em if you want.

I have no problem hearing the message.  If I wanted to go my own way, respectfully, I wouldn't have asked the question.  What I took offense to was being called silly.  I have only been in this organization for a little over a year, and while I am the DCC, our squadron runs as two separate units (officers and cadets meet on different nights).  I am looking to set an acceptable example while wearing the uniforms, and was looking for constructive insight on accepted practices; not to be called silly due to my obvious lack of experience. 

Thank you for further explaining your reasoning, late as it may be.  That is the kind of discussion I was hoping for.  People would express what they do and the reasoning behind it.

[ddelaney103]

In the white and grays I go the Navy way - their officers wear three ribbons on the khakis.

I'd suggest (highest award/highest level/other).  I wear unit citation (I'd wear my CommComm, but I lent it to someone else for an award presentation and am waiting for a replacement) Garber and Mitchell.

This allows you the chance to get recognition for your achievements without pimping out your shirt.

[RiverAux]

I follow the Air Force folkway of wearing only your qualification badges on the shirt.  Yes, the reg both in CAP and the AF allows wear of ribbons on shirts, but even though allowed, certain things are not usually done.

Glad to know that I've been following the AF folkways...haven't got the hang of that AF-style square dance yet....

Seriously though, I rarely see ribbons on anyone except at wing conference or sometimes at a commanders call.  Personally, I don't wear them because I haven't kept up with buying the ones I've earned. 

[jimmydeanno]

Maybe you didn't want to hear it that way but... Most USAF officers don't wear ribbons on the shirts, and that's why I have taken to not wearing them on my uniform as a senior.  Likewise I would not wear them on the aviator shirt with the blue or the gray epaulets for this reason, but I can't tell you how to wear your uniform... so, wear 'em if you want.

I have no problem hearing the message.  If I wanted to go my own way, respectfully, I wouldn't have asked the question.  What I took offense to was being called silly.  I have only been in this organization for a little over a year, and while I am the DCC, our squadron runs as two separate units (officers and cadets meet on different nights).  I am looking to set an acceptable example while wearing the uniforms, and was looking for constructive insight on accepted practices; not to be called silly due to my obvious lack of experience. 

I think the silly remark wasn't used to call you 'silly,' but rather used in the context of the "Trix" commercials ("Silly Rabit, Trix are for kids"), with only sarcasm intended, no personal attack.

But here's what I do and the reasoning.

I wear my GT, Observer Wings and CP badge on my short sleeve blues shirt.  I would do the same on the new corporate and the aviator combo.  I choose to because in the normal routine of my function in the squadron, I don't want to constantly have to check my ribbon rack to see if ribbons have fallen off, explain all of them to someone and they get dirty.

To expand on the "explain them all to someone" statement.  I would prefer people listen to what I am saying and how I am doing my job rather than staring at my chest and wondering what they all are.  It also saves the 'glamour' of them for more formal occasions where pomp and circumstance is more appropriate. (Award ceremonies, banquets, conferences, etc)

On another note, I don't wear all the patches I can on my BDUs either.  I could wear the observer wings, GT, COS, Squadron, ES Patch, Wing Patch, Flag...not a spot to spare.  But instead I only wear the Flag, Wing, and Squadron Patch.  I think it looks 'cleaner.'

If you are looking to follow the tradition AF way (even though you don't wear the AF Style Uniform), traditionally officers don't wear their ribbons on the light blue shirt.  Enlisted personnel however, do.

Just my take...

[JohnKachenmeister]

It's pronounced ModderAnger. 

No doubt the smarter brother of "Ed Anger" the famous columnist for Weekly World News? 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Maybe you didn't want to hear it that way but... Most USAF officers don't wear ribbons on the shirts, and that's why I have taken to not wearing them on my uniform as a senior.  Likewise I would not wear them on the aviator shirt with the blue or the gray epaulets for this reason, but I can't tell you how to wear your uniform... so, wear 'em if you want.

I have no problem hearing the message.  If I wanted to go my own way, respectfully, I wouldn't have asked the question.  What I took offense to was being called silly.  I have only been in this organization for a little over a year, and while I am the DCC, our squadron runs as two separate units (officers and cadets meet on different nights).  I am looking to set an acceptable example while wearing the uniforms, and was looking for constructive insight on accepted practices; not to be called silly due to my obvious lack of experience. 

I think the silly remark wasn't used to call you 'silly,' but rather used in the context of the "Trix" commercials ("Silly Rabit, Trix are for kids"), with only sarcasm intended, no personal attack.

But here's what I do and the reasoning.

I wear my GT, Observer Wings and CP badge on my short sleeve blues shirt.  I would do the same on the new corporate and the aviator combo.  I choose to because in the normal routine of my function in the squadron, I don't want to constantly have to check my ribbon rack to see if ribbons have fallen off, explain all of them to someone and they get dirty.

To expand on the "explain them all to someone" statement.  I would prefer people listen to what I am saying and how I am doing my job rather than staring at my chest and wondering what they all are.  It also saves the 'glamour' of them for more formal occasions where pomp and circumstance is more appropriate. (Award ceremonies, banquets, conferences, etc)

On another note, I don't wear all the patches I can on my BDUs either.  I could wear the observer wings, GT, COS, Squadron, ES Patch, Wing Patch, Flag...not a spot to spare.  But instead I only wear the Flag, Wing, and Squadron Patch.  I think it looks 'cleaner.'

If you are looking to follow the tradition AF way (even though you don't wear the AF Style Uniform), traditionally officers don't wear their ribbons on the light blue shirt.  Enlisted personnel however, do.

Just my take...

So you don't like people looking at your chest?  I don't normally hear that from men.

I'll have to remember that line, though.  The next time I catch a girl staring at my ribbons.  (I hate it when they undress you with their eyes... like I'm a piece of meat.)

At the O-club at Kirtland AFB the barmaid looked at my ribbons and said:  "It looks like you have every ribbon they make!"

I winked at her and said:  "Every one except the Good Conduct, Sweetie!"

It hasn't worked yet, but I keep trying.

[Capt M. Sherrod]

My apologies, if it seems I over-reacted.  Sarcasm with no emoticons or other indicator, is very difficult to "hear" when reading.  Again, thank you all for letting me know what the various ways and reasons are.

[MIKE]

Go up to a woman in uniform and comment on her ribbons with a "Nice rack." and see what kind of reaction you get. 

[mikeylikey]

^  Possibly a quick kick to the groin?  Maybe a black eye as well 

[ZigZag911]

If you are looking to follow the tradition AF way (even though you don't wear the AF Style Uniform), traditionally officers don't wear their ribbons on the light blue shirt.  Enlisted personnel however, do.

This particular "tradition", to the best of my knowledge, dates only to the mid 1970s.

I'm not certain why it began then, but I have heard some speculation:

1) There was (is?) an attitude in USAF that only "rated" officers really matter...so an officer either wore wings, or did not have them -- so who cared what else that officer had!

2) There was a push for a 'cleaner' looking uniform (frankly it reminds me of the Postal Service...no offense to USPS, but these are very different organizations!)

3) Vaguely related to this, there was an effort to appear less military in the post-Vietnam era.

4) Also, there was a desire to further distance the AF from the Army & its customs.

Personally, I am one of those restricted to the gray & white (have not decided about a TPU yet)....for meetings, classes and so forth I limit myself to observer wings & badge(s).

For "official" occasions (wing conference, conducting an inspection) I have a two row 'mini-rack' with just the more significant awards (Meritorious, commander comm, command service, Garber and so forth)

For "formal" occasions (change of command,  a cadet milestone award ceremony, and so on) all the whistles and bells come out for the event...I've even been known to wear a tie!

[Camas]

Again, thank you all for letting me know what the various ways and reasons are.

Now that you've got some opinions (and we've beat this "ribbon thing" to death elsewhere), do what you're comfortable with.  You're going to be a recipient of that Loening Award soon; wear that puppy and wear it with pride.  You earned it!

[ColonelJack]

This particular "tradition", to the best of my knowledge, dates only to the mid 1970s.

I'm not certain why it began then, but I have heard some speculation:

1) There was (is?) an attitude in USAF that only "rated" officers really matter...so an officer either wore wings, or did not have them -- so who cared what else that officer had!

2) There was a push for a 'cleaner' looking uniform (frankly it reminds me of the Postal Service...no offense to USPS, but these are very different organizations!)

3) Vaguely related to this, there was an effort to appear less military in the post-Vietnam era.

4) Also, there was a desire to further distance the AF from the Army & its customs.

There was also this to consider:  in the 1970s, both the Army and the Air Force moved to a much lighter-weight uniform shirt than the heavier khaki.  In the beginning, the material of the shirt wouldn't hold the weight of the ribbons -- hence, the AF's experiment with "miniature" ribbons, which didn't last long.  A rack of miniature ribbons looked a lot like Colonel Klink's decorations, if you ask me.  But they were developed because the lighter material of the shirt simply didn't hold ribbons well.

Jack

[Hawk200]

-- hence, the AF's experiment with "miniature" ribbons, which didn't last long. 

Actually, they are still authorized. Try to find some though. I've been looking for some for years.

[mikeylikey]

-- hence, the AF's experiment with "miniature" ribbons, which didn't last long. 

Actually, they are still authorized. Try to find some though. I've been looking for some for years.

HERE:  http://www.militaryribbons.org/AirForce.html

You can buy from there as well!

[ColonelJack]

[HERE:  http://www.militaryribbons.org/AirForce.html
You can buy from there as well!

Those are really cute ... but not what I was referring to as "miniature ribbons."  They're the same ribbon as used in miniature medals -- half the width of a full-size ribbon, so two fit on a regular one-ribbon holder.  Thus you could have six across on a three-ribbon holder.

But those are pretty neat!

Jack

[Hawk200]

-- hence, the AF's experiment with "miniature" ribbons, which didn't last long. 

Actually, they are still authorized. Try to find some though. I've been looking for some for years.

HERE:  http://www.militaryribbons.org/AirForce.html

You can buy from there as well!

Those aren't legitimate miniature ribbons. To be a ribbon, it has to made of cloth. Those are enamel devices that are the same size as ribbons. Those wouldn't be acceptable for uniform wear.

Actually, here are some that are ribbons, although they don't sell them as individual ribbons, only a premade "rack": http://www.medalsofamerica.com/RibbonTypeMini.aspx

They meet the criteria for miniature ribbons mentioned in AFI 36-2903. Unfortunately, they don't seem to make them in rows of six, which I believe the AFI mandates that miniature ribbons go six to a row (max) with remaining centered above on the rack.

[davedove]

Those aren't legitimate miniature ribbons. To be a ribbon, it has to made of cloth. Those are enamel devices that are the same size as ribbons. Those wouldn't be acceptable for uniform wear.

Actually, they look the same size as the lapel sized miniatures, like they make for military medals to wear on the lapels of civilian clothing.  No, they aren't authorized for uniform wear, EXCEPT if you wore them as the lapel pin on the blazer combo.  And since he makes them as a single unit, your entire rack can be a single lapel pin (although it could get rather large for some folks).

I wonder if he's ever considered doing CAP ribbons the same way.

[ZigZag911]

Colonel Jack, I did not realize that the lack of fabric strength had been a consideration initially, thanks for the info!

[Major Carrales]

I should know better but...

I used to wear my ribbons at all times, and mostly do for PAO work.  However, I have  a personal policy of wearing them on my shirts when I deal with cadets...mostly due to the fact that they have to wear them.

I don't think it is a blasphmey to wear them on the shirts, they were earned.  But, we are given the option...do it as you will.

[RogueLeader]

I should know better but...

I used to wear my ribbons at all times, and mostly do for PAO work.  However, I have  a personal policy of wearing them on my shirts when I deal with cadets...mostly due to the fact that they have to wear them.

I don't think it is a blasphmey to wear them on the shirts, they were earned.  But, we are give the option...do it as you will.

Roger

[ZigZag911]

To clarify, my reference to a 'mini-rack' meant less than my full complement of ribbons -- I am not using the 'miniatures' mentioned (do they even exist for CAP ribbons?)

[AlphaSigOU]

To clarify, my reference to a 'mini-rack' meant less than my full complement of ribbons -- I am not using the 'miniatures' mentioned (do they even exist for CAP ribbons?)

Nix, nay, nope.

[SARMedTech]

I agree with the ModeRanger.

I follow the Air Force folkway of wearing only your qualification badges on the shirt.  Yes, the reg both in CAP and the AF allows wear of ribbons on shirts, but even though allowed, certain things are not usually done.

There are a couple of exceptions I make to this rule:

1.  Kinda-ceremonial, special events at which the wear of the service jacket is proscribed, I wear the ribbons (and my tie) to sort of recognize that this event is special.

2.  Since I have active duty and combat ribbons, when I think it is helpful to silently, and discretely, announce the fact that I have service other than CAP volunteer time.   

1. When would it be helpful?
2. I dont think ribbons and discrete or silent should be used in the same sentence. There meant as a show off item. If they werent, everyone would just get a certificate and there wouldnt be any ribbons. I know Im going to hear about the "secret code of the ribbons"

[SARMedTech]

The regs for the corporate blue trousers/white shirt say that a member must meet grooming standards, but saying nothing about weight standards. How do we know if we are supposed to wear the blue trousers and epi-sleeves or grey trousers and grey sleeves? Also if weight is a factor in addition to grooming (weight not mentioned), do a google image search for air force service uniform and I think you will agree that the male SM definately doesnt meet weight standards (sorry if thats anyone from here in that photo). Also, is a cover other than the ball cap authorized with the blue/white corporate?

[ColonelJack]

The regs for the corporate blue trousers/white shirt say that a member must meet grooming standards, but saying nothing about weight standards. How do we know if we are supposed to wear the blue trousers and epi-sleeves or grey trousers and grey sleeves?

Seniors who don't meet weight standards but do meet grooming standards have a choice, and may wear either the corporate blue or aviator grey uniform.  Seniors who don't meet either standard have no choice, and may wear only the aviator greys. 

Also if weight is a factor in addition to grooming (weight not mentioned), do a google image search for air force service uniform and I think you will agree that the male SM definately doesnt meet weight standards (sorry if thats anyone from here in that photo).

I went through five pages and only saw one male SM who doesn't meet weight standards -- Colonel Levitch -- and he's in corporate blue, not AF blue.  Not sure which picture you're referring to.

Also, is a cover other than the ball cap authorized with the blue/white corporate?

Yes, the blue flight cap with CAP emblem and the service cap with CAP emblem and silver chin strap.

Jack

[SARMedTech]

Im supposed to wear a silver chin strap to a meeting? Im Kidding.  And if you back up and re-read my quotes, I said IF there is a weight standard, which was the crux of my question in the first place because i did not know if there was. The photo to which I am referring is the the first one when you do the image search I suggested.

[ColonelJack]

Im supposed to wear a silver chin strap to a meeting? Im Kidding.  And if you back up and re-read my quotes, I said IF there is a weight standard, which was the crux of my question in the first place because i did not know if there was. The photo to which I am referring is the the first one when you do the image search I suggested.

For the corporate blue, there isn't a weight standard.  Same for the aviator greys.  Just a grooming standard.

And the picture ... I now see which one you meant, but that's actually an AF officer, not a CAP officer.  So bad on them for letting that one get by.

Jack

[SARMedTech]

I was just watching a televised speech from the National Press Club and the presenter was talking about military matters so there were plenty of uniforms in the audience. The camera panned to 4 USAF officers sitting together wearing their short sleeve blues with full ribbon racks. If its good enough for them, its good enough for me.