Rank on both collars question

[DrDave]

Question for the group:

Been trying to find the actual policy letter stating cadets will wear their rank on both collars of their Blues uniform.  I have found the policy letter stating both ranks on the BDU collars but can't find the one for the Blues, specifically the implimentation dates.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,
Dr. Dave

[Mustang]

It's in the March National Board minutes, hasn't been implemented by interim change letter yet.

[DrDave]

Thanks!  I knew I saw it somewhere!

Dr. Dave

[Pylon]

...which brings up another great topic:  Since it's been three months now, when can we expect to see the rest of these changes from the March NB (let alone the recent NEC meeting) in Interim Change Letter form?   

[Hawk200]

...which brings up another great topic:  Since it's been three months now, when can we expect to see the rest of these changes from the March NB (let alone the recent NEC meeting) in Interim Change Letter form?   

September 22nd...

[mikeylikey]

OR Never!

[Hawk200]

OR Never!

Yeah, that's probably a viably date as well.

[DrDave]

After looking over the March NB draft minutes detailing the approval of the rank on both sides of the cadet blues uniform, and bringing it up during our monthly Group Command and Staff meeting, one of my squadron commanders pointed out something that wasn't initially obvious to me.

The approved regulation specificially refers to cadet NCO grades.  Those don't start until Staff Sergeant (Wright Bros Award).

So do the three cadet enlisted (i.e. non-NCO) ranks below Staff Sergeant STILL wear CAP cutout on their left collar on the blues (Airman Basic, Airman, A1C)?

Dr. Dave

[SAR-EMT1]

While it may initially look that way, the true cause for that wordage was that some folks refused to refer to cadets as 'enlisted'  I would humbly Assume, that everyone C/Amn and up should match as it were and go with both sides identical. However, this is an assumption on my part and doesnt count for anything.

[G+10]

Doctor Major,

It is true, when they refer to NCO they mean both airman and Sergeant grades (which are all considered as enlisted grades, as in the military they are enlisted as opposed to officers who are commissioned.)

From what I understand as soon as the letter comes out this change is in effect and not before.

John Gniewkowski
Spirit of St Louis Composite

[CASH172]

September 22nd...

Any reason to think that date other than a guess. 

[DrDave]

Hey, John-G, good to hear from you!

Thanks for the clarification.

Dr. Dave

Major-Doctor, Doctor-Major

[SarDragon]

Is a Major-Doctor better or worse than a Major Malfunction?

[Hawk200]

September 22nd...

Any reason to think that date other than a guess. 

It wasn't even an educated guess. It was a smart aleck joke. There really wasn't any 'reason' to it at all.

[DrDave]

Could be worse, could be

Major Hassle

Major Headache

Major Oops

True story: I have a patient with the last name of Looney, he's retired Army and was a Major so he was ... wait for it ... Major Looney!

Second true story: A member of our Wing's cadet program staff goes by the callsign of "Trouble" at cadet events.  Well, she recently got promoted to Major and her new call sign is -- yep -- Major Trouble!

Dr. Dave

"[darnit] Jim, I'm a Doctor not a Doc ... oh, oh yeah."

[CAP428]

While it may initially look that way, the true cause for that wordage was that some folks refused to refer to cadets as 'enlisted'  I would humbly Assume, that everyone C/Amn and up should match as it were and go with both sides identical. However, this is an assumption on my part and doesnt count for anything.

I am guessing that is probably correct, though it seems silly to me for them to use an incorrect word just to avoid using the term "enlisted."  Using "NCO" just causes confusion and will doubtlessly cause a "double standard" in which part of our membership interprets it literally while th another does not, meaning we'll have people wearing the insignia differently, which is always annoying.......[sigh].

Why didn't they just say "all cadet, non-officer grade?"  That would have been too easy I guess?

[Pylon]

While it may initially look that way, the true cause for that wordage was that some folks refused to refer to cadets as 'enlisted'  I would humbly Assume, that everyone C/Amn and up should match as it were and go with both sides identical. However, this is an assumption on my part and doesnt count for anything.

If that is truly the case on why an ambiguous term was chosen over a clear one, that's terrible.  "Cadet Enlisted" as a term is no different than "Cadet NCO" or "Cadet Officer."   

Why didn't they just say "all cadet, non-officer grade?"  That would have been too easy I guess?

You could also use "All cadets C/AB through C/CMSGt, inclusive." and all sorts of other work-arounds but I just think it's pointless to use protracted, lengthy phrases to describe something as simple as "Cadet Enlisted."  There's nothing wrong with that term.

[MIKE]

CAPM 39-1 uses the term "Airman" as the all inclusive unless otherwise specified term, as in not "Officers" term.  Still confused? 

[Pylon]

CAPM 39-1 uses the term "Airman" as the all inclusive unless otherwise specified term, as in not "Officers" term.  Still confused? 

I am confused by that because the term Airman can and is used to describe all members of the Air Force from AB up to Gen - much in the same way that sailor, soldier, and Marine are used.  It's not necessarily specific to a certain subset of ranks/grades where as "Enlisted" is.

[Hawk200]

You could also use "All cadets C/AB through C/CMSGt, inclusive." and all sorts of other work-arounds but I just think it's pointless to use protracted, lengthy phrases to describe something as simple as "Cadet Enlisted."  There's nothing wrong with that term.

Being a military enlisted man, I have a problem with that term. Those cadets are not "enlisted". They didn't take any oaths to the country, so it doesn't apply to them. Not diminishing their accomplishments or position, but it isn't what they are. It's pretty easy to say "Cadet Airman and NCO's".

Even with CAP Senior Member NCO's, it's not really accurate. It's more appropriate than "Cadet Enlisted", because those people at one time did enlist in the military. However, since we don't have any Airman grades (E-1 to E4), it's really a moot point. Senior Members with stripes are only NCO's, so it's easier to just call them that.