Stars on Badges

[dhon27]

8. White-and-gray uniform worn with more than 2 badges (pilot wings, ground team badge, and a specialty badge... or two...)

You mean specialty like ES or CP?  That's legal, isn't it? 

The white's are configed the same as the blues with the exception of the prohibition of military ribbons.

Not so... read CAPM 39-1 (table 6-3 on page 110). It says
"The CAP aviation badge and one additional CAP badge for a maximum of two badges, may be worn."

It's kind of vague but I think it means that if you wear wings, you can wear two badges; if you don't wear wings, then only one (ground team badge, CAP unit commander badge, chaplain, legal, or a specialty like AE, CP, ES, Comms) can be worn.

That only applies >above< the ribbons.

You can still wear a specialty on each pocket, and the Command badge doesn't count.

Except that at the bottom of Table 6-3, it states that "NOTE: The CAP aviation badge and one additional CAP badge for a maximum of two badges, may be worn."  This doesn't appear to differentiate between badges above the ribbons or below.  It seems to limit the total number of badges worn to two.

[Hawk200]

Seems like too many inconsistencies between the uniform shirts. Seems like the easy thing to do is mirror from one to other. The only difference should be whether the shirt is white or blue. There is the restriction of military ribbons/badges on the white shirt, it should stay in place, but other than that, why should they be different?

On the white shirt, I think the stipulation of only two badges when one is aviation is the same flawed principle that McPeak had when he released his original service dress idea. It discriminated against non-aircrew, and gave the impression that non-aircrew were inferior. It got changed, CAP should learn the same lesson.

[jb512]

Well my issue is why is that they part of CAP that has uniform infractions are are never called on it when it is noticed by someone who is knowledgeable? Why are those who point things out quietly looked at as a "narc"? With the way some things are, I wonder if I could get away with wearing the master MP badge? No, I'm not a pilot. Just blowing off some steam.

I don't see how that would make one a "narc".  The uniform reflects on all of us and we should make a habit of making those corrections.

[mdickinson]

The white's [sic] are configed the same as the blues with the exception of the prohibition of military ribbons.

Ribbons are not prohibited on the whites, however it does look very tacky.

He didn't say ribbons are prohibited; he said military ribbons are prohibited. He is correct; you can wear your CAP ribbons on your whites, but not any ribbons awarded by any other service.

[JC004]

The white's [sic] are configed the same as the blues with the exception of the prohibition of military ribbons.

Ribbons are not prohibited on the whites, however it does look very tacky.

He didn't say ribbons are prohibited; he said military ribbons are prohibited. He is correct; you can wear your CAP ribbons on your whites, but not any ribbons awarded by any other service.

Unless said service allows its ribbons worn on civilian clothing.  Wasn't that a whole thing with the national board?

[Eclipse]

I (sit) corrected on the badges deal.

Page 105 is clear, as I indicated in a PM, I have some clarification memos to write...

[SJFedor]

Close. The cadet is wearing a GTL badge. It was pointed out by a DCC of Cadets that he isn't suppose to be wearing it until 18. I believe he is 16.

Please see my post on page 2, it cites the regulation, or just read CAPR 35-6. Cadets under 18 MAY wear the Senior GT Badge (GTL Badge if you must) as long as they are either A) a GTL (which you can't be under 18), or B) a graduate from a National Ground Search and Rescue equivilant (as certified by CAP/DO) ADVANCED GSAR school (NESA Advanced, for example).

35-6, Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges , they wrote an entire book just on the subject that is being debated!

[Hawk200]

Unless said service allows its ribbons worn on civilian clothing.  Wasn't that a whole thing with the national board?

That only applies to the TPU, not the white/grey combo. 39-1 specifically states that military decs are not worn on the white/greys.

[JC004]

Unless said service allows its ribbons worn on civilian clothing.  Wasn't that a whole thing with the national board?

That only applies to the TPU, not the white/grey combo. 39-1 specifically states that military decs are not worn on the white/greys.

I tried to find the stuff related to it, but I couldn't find it.  Anybody got a link? 

[Hawk200]

Unless said service allows its ribbons worn on civilian clothing.  Wasn't that a whole thing with the national board?

That only applies to the TPU, not the white/grey combo. 39-1 specifically states that military decs are not worn on the white/greys.

I tried to find the stuff related to it, but I couldn't find it.  Anybody got a link? 

I looked over the policy letters for the Corporate Service Dress, and at present there is nothing about permitting wear of military decorations. It may have been discussed, but at this moment, nothing has been included permitting it in the actual policy letters.

The aviator shirt reference states specifically "No military ribbons may be worn." That's Figure 4-2, Line 10.

I'm not sure which reference you were looking for, so I included both of those. Hope that helps.

[JC004]

Unless said service allows its ribbons worn on civilian clothing.  Wasn't that a whole thing with the national board?

That only applies to the TPU, not the white/grey combo. 39-1 specifically states that military decs are not worn on the white/greys.

I tried to find the stuff related to it, but I couldn't find it.  Anybody got a link? 

I looked over the policy letters for the Corporate Service Dress, and at present there is nothing about permitting wear of military decorations. It may have been discussed, but at this moment, nothing has been included permitting it in the actual policy letters.

The aviator shirt reference states specifically "No military ribbons may be worn." That's Figure 4-2, Line 10.

I'm not sure which reference you were looking for, so I included both of those. Hope that helps.

Yea...the TPU stuff.  I'm guessing it was a NEC/NB thing, IIRC.  No policy letter yet, just as with the blue beret and Hawk bling.

[MIKE]

IIRC we had the discussion on the Portal... I seem to remember posting cites from the various uniform regs/manuals/instructions.  IIRC most, if not all basically said no ribbons on "civilian clothing."  IIRC most authorize the lapel pins and the mini-medals to be worn on the appropriate civilian attire.

[SAR-EMT1]

I dont want to make myself look like an idiot, but I am one who knowingly wears his uniform a tad out of reg.

Blues: I still fir into my blues shirts from cadet days, I have an IL Wing patch sewn on. I will wear in as is until the uniform no longer fits or becomes unservicable. BECAUSE to remove the Wing patch MAKES the shirt unservicable due to thread holes and the waxy material from the patch backing. And I am unwilling to spend the money to repalce it until its due.

BDUS, I still have the Wing Patch for the same reason given above.
I do not currently have LT insignia on either my BDU cover or blouse because when I switch to CAPT this fall It would screw the uniform. I will most likely sew on the CAPT bars this fall safe in the knowledge that my uniform is safe from interuption for at least 3 years.


I say this to ask opinions and to find out if there is a "safe" way to remove a wing patch without destroying the shirt.

[mdickinson]

I still fir (sic) into my blues shirts from cadet days, I have an IL Wing patch sewn on. I will wear in (sic) as is until the uniform no longer fits or becomes unservicable (sic).

Wow, you are really behind the times. It was decreed over a year ago that "these patches must be removed from blue AF-style garments by 1 August 2006" (CAP/CC change letter, 15 Mar 06) and you're thinking about waiting until "this fall" to comply? You, my friend, are part of CAP's uniform problem. (How has your commander responded to your decision to miswear the uniform for more than a year?)

BECAUSE to remove the Wing patch MAKES the shirt unservicable (sic) due to thread holes and the waxy material from the patch backing. And I am unwilling to spend the money to repalce (sic) it until its (sic) due.

I seem to remember when the policy letter came out requiring us to remove our wing patches, there was some text included that specifically addressed this point, saying that no one would be penalized for having sewing-holes or glue-spots on the shoulder of their blues shirts. I can't find the reference now...anyone else remember reading that?

BDUS, I still have the Wing Patch for the same reason given above.

But the wing patch stays on the BDU. It just became optional, that's all. The change letter referenced above said: "Wing/Region/National patches are now optional on BDUs, flight suits, CAP field and utility uniforms." You should probably read the change letter before deciding you are going to ignore it...

I do not currently have LT insignia on either my BDU cover or blouse because when I switch to CAPT (sic) this fall It would screw the uniform.

I fail to understand how sewing an embroidered lieutenant bar onto your BDU cap and collars (as has been required for some time now) would "screw" the uniform when you "switch" to Captain.

The tool you need is called a seam ripper - pick one up at Wal-Mart for 99 cents, and you'll be all ready to remove your single bar and replace it with a double bar. Your uniform will survive the change unscathed.

I say this to ask opinions and to find out if there is a "safe" way to remove a wing patch without destroying the shirt.

Just use a seam ripper to cut the thread that is holding the patch to the shirt. Then peel it off. Don't worry about a little melted plastic left behind.

I dont (sic) want to make myself look like an idiot

Some might say that you've done just that - by advertising that you've been wearing your uniform wrong for a year, and adding that you intend to keep doing so for several more months. You're effectively saying "I'll start wearing the uniform correctly once you promote me to Captain."    Seeing how proper uniform wear is one of the criteria for promotion, you might be shooting yourself in the foot.

Another way that one can look like an idiot is by jamming a ton of spelling mistakes and run-on sentences into a single post. But at least that's not contrary to 39-1

[Eclipse]

I dont want to make myself look like an idiot, but I am one who knowingly wears his uniform a tad out of reg.

Blues: I still fir into my blues shirts from cadet days, I have an IL Wing patch sewn on. I will wear in as is until the uniform no longer fits or becomes unservicable. BECAUSE to remove the Wing patch MAKES the shirt unservicable due to thread holes and the waxy material from the patch backing. And I am unwilling to spend the money to repalce it until its due.

BDUS, I still have the Wing Patch for the same reason given above.
I do not currently have LT insignia on either my BDU cover or blouse because when I switch to CAPT this fall It would screw the uniform. I will most likely sew on the CAPT bars this fall safe in the knowledge that my uniform is safe from interruption for at least 3 years.


I say this to ask opinions and to find out if there is a "safe" way to remove a wing patch without destroying the shirt.

Sorry, man - you're being part of the problem...

We all have to suck it up and incur the PITA of the changes and the sometimes expense of new parts.
You're out of uniform and setting a terrible example.

Your unit CC is as well, by not addressing this directly.

[mdickinson]

What Eclipse said.

[TankerT]

What Eclipse said.

Ditto

[shorning]

What Eclipse said.

Ditto

[RogueLeader]

Oye Vey!!!

[jb512]

Count me in as agreeing too....  I've always found that a hot iron and a little starch will flatten out the material enough to get rid of most, if not all of the holes left from a patch.  Not always, but most of the time...

And, I believe that the size of the Capt insignia will more than cover the holes left from an old Lt patch.