I opened this to relieve the drift on the leadership thread.
I do have a bit of confusion here. What is the MCSS referenced in some of those posts. IIRC, the AF uniform stores come under AAFES (Army and Air Force Exchange Service) and come under the provisions of CAPR 147-1, and AR 60–20/AFR 147-14. The relevant text of the former is almost an exact quote of the latter.
Additionally, from CAPR 147-1: This regulation states the Army and Air Force Exchange privileges authorized Civil Air Patrol senior and cadet members by joint Air Force Regulation 147-14 and Army Regulation 60-20. These two regulations will be, referred to whenever it is necessary to quote the source of authority for exchange privileges since this CAP regulation is for information purposes only with regard to these privileges.
MCSS = Military Clothing Sales Store. The part of AAFES tht sells the uniforms and accessories.
Thanks.
One issue addressed on the board is non-uniform purchases. This is a big deal to some folks. Personally, I'd just like to have the stuff that I need for AF missions. Maybe limited purchase of other stuff. To many, this is a CAP/Air Force separation issue. Understandably so.
Another thing is MCSS and inconsistent behavior by the AAFES staff. I have sometimes got "Civil...what?" or similar responses. I have found that if I carry stuff to cite, they won't have a problem. If I don't, then they will. A Murphy's Law of CAP.
Quote from: JC004 on May 29, 2007, 06:27:09 AM
One issue addressed on the board is non-uniform purchases. This is a big deal to some folks. Personally, I'd just like to have the stuff that I need for AF missions. Maybe limited purchase of other stuff. To many, this is a CAP/Air Force separation issue. Understandably so.
Meh...I just buy what I want.
;)
Wearing a uniform of sorts usually helps your case a little. And always have the reg #'s in your head, just in case.
I've had AF officers come to my rescue a few times to defend that I really AM allowed to be buying what I am buying (thank God some of them know about us!)
Quote from: shorning on May 29, 2007, 06:32:08 AM
Quote from: JC004 on May 29, 2007, 06:27:09 AM
One issue addressed on the board is non-uniform purchases. This is a big deal to some folks. Personally, I'd just like to have the stuff that I need for AF missions. Maybe limited purchase of other stuff. To many, this is a CAP/Air Force separation issue. Understandably so.
Meh...I just buy what I want.
;)
You...you...pineapple.
(http://jcolgan004.googlepages.com/av23.gif)
Quote from: JC004 on May 29, 2007, 06:47:04 AM
Quote from: shorning on May 29, 2007, 06:32:08 AM
Quote from: JC004 on May 29, 2007, 06:27:09 AM
One issue addressed on the board is non-uniform purchases. This is a big deal to some folks. Personally, I'd just like to have the stuff that I need for AF missions. Maybe limited purchase of other stuff. To many, this is a CAP/Air Force separation issue. Understandably so.
Meh...I just buy what I want.
;)
You...you...pineapple.
(http://jcolgan004.googlepages.com/av23.gif)
Don't be a (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/shorning/hater.gif)
The AAFES BX at the ANG base here is fairly small, but I've never had a problem. Mostly I've just bought uniform items, but I have purchased a camelback and a few Air Force T-Shirts.
The fact that the was a CAP squadron based there for a while may have had something to do with it.
I've never had a single problem at the NAVEx up at NSGL, nor w/ AAFES (either at Scott or online) however I am generally in uniform, always have my ID and am courteous. I don't think I've ever tried to buy anything not related to my duty up there.
Since we have a billet on base, our privileges are a bit looser (i.e. stationed there), as they would be during Spring Encampment, etc.
If you act professionally, you'll be treated that way.
This has always been a sore point with me, I'm giving my time and treasure BACK to the US.GOV, the least they could do is let me shop at the commissary, etc., but I understand, with the tax-free status, etc., I can almost guarantee you that our limited exchange privileges point directly back to one or more times some yahoo member bought 28 televisions and sold them on eBay or similar.
Buckley AFB MCSS in CO has been very helpful and polite. Never had a problem with them allowing me to purchase what I needed. Through the efforts of one of our members, who also happens to be an SP on base, the MCSS also carries some CAP stuff. They keep a few ribbons out and everything else is kept in back, you have to ask for it and they're happy to get it for you.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 29, 2007, 02:20:14 PM
I've never had a single problem at the NAVEx up at NSGL, nor w/ AAFES (either at Scott or online) however I am generally in uniform, always have my ID and am courteous. I don't think I've ever tried to buy anything not related to my duty up there.
Online? Are you a dependant/military member? If so, never mind, if not......how did you get online access to AAFES.COM?
Sorry - "online" is probably a stretch - I meant via phone...
Quote from: Eclipse on May 29, 2007, 03:02:10 PM
Sorry - "online" is probably a stretch - I meant via phone...
Gotcha.....just curious if the started to allow CAP online. WHICH THEY SHOULD. It would not be hard to setup a systme that allows CAP members access only to the military clothing section online!
I love being an Auxie. ;)
Quote from: Eclipse on May 29, 2007, 02:20:14 PM
This has always been a sore point with me, I'm giving my time and treasure BACK to the US.GOV, the least they could do is let me shop at the commissary, etc., but I understand, with the tax-free status, etc., I can almost guarantee you that our limited exchange privileges point directly back to one or more times some yahoo member bought 28 televisions and sold them on eBay or similar.
You want to shop in the Commissary and have unlimited exchange privileges? Then join one of the armed services.
Quote from: MIKE on May 29, 2007, 04:19:46 PM
I love being an Auxie. ;)
Not so up on the CG AUX benefits.......are you allowed to purchase anything at the exchanges. Are you allowed in Navy exchanges as well? What other benefits do you have? Can you be int he service and still be in tha AUX?
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 29, 2007, 03:02:10 PM
Sorry - "online" is probably a stretch - I meant via phone...
Gotcha.....just curious if the started to allow CAP online. WHICH THEY SHOULD. It would not be hard to setup a systme that allows CAP members access only to the military clothing section online!
You have to be a military member or dependant to use AAFES.COM because the database they use to verify your eligibility to shop there is the DEERS database.
This is the same database they use to issue military and dependant ID cards.
It would take some major reworking of the system to link it with e-services. Not to mention who would pay for it.
Quote from: PHall on May 29, 2007, 04:45:55 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 29, 2007, 02:20:14 PM
This has always been a sore point with me, I'm giving my time and treasure BACK to the US.GOV, the least they could do is let me shop at the commissary, etc., but I understand, with the tax-free status, etc., I can almost guarantee you that our limited exchange privileges point directly back to one or more times some yahoo member bought 28 televisions and sold them on eBay or similar.
You want to shop in the Commissary and have unlimited exchange privileges? Then join one of the armed services.
Agreed.....but the Commissary is starting to loose the competitive edge. The prices for everyday items in the Commissary are almost the same price as at Walmart. Cigarettes and chew are no longer the "great deal" they were 2 years ago either. The PX is also starting to be less of a benefit as well. In all honesty people who aren't "privileged" to shop in either are not missing much. Now, don't get me started on the AAFES gas stations......or as I like to call them, "no savings stations".
Quote from: PHall on May 29, 2007, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 29, 2007, 03:02:10 PM
Sorry - "on line" is probably a stretch - I meant via phone...
Gotcha.....just curious if the started to allow CAP on line. WHICH THEY SHOULD. It would not be hard to setup a system that allows CAP members access only to the military clothing section on line!
You have to be a military member or dependant to use AAFES.COM because the database they use to verify your eligibility to shop there is the DEERS database.
This is the same database they use to issue military and dependant ID cards.
It would take some major reworking of the system to link it with e-services. Not to mention who would pay for it.
Not necessarily, set it up so that the CAP member must call Dallas and fax AAFES the ID Card, just like now, and give them access only to the military clothing section. A IT geek could probably type up the necessary code in under an hour!
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: PHall on May 29, 2007, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 29, 2007, 03:02:10 PM
Sorry - "on line" is probably a stretch - I meant via phone...
Gotcha.....just curious if the started to allow CAP on line. WHICH THEY SHOULD. It would not be hard to setup a system that allows CAP members access only to the military clothing section on line!
You have to be a military member or dependant to use AAFES.COM because the database they use to verify your eligibility to shop there is the DEERS database.
This is the same database they use to issue military and dependant ID cards.
It would take some major reworking of the system to link it with e-services. Not to mention who would pay for it.
Not necessarily, set it up so that the CAP member must call Dallas and fax AAFES the ID Card, just like now, and give them access only to the military clothing section. A IT geek could probably type up the necessary code in under an hour!
Great, so whip out your checkbook because AAFES sure ain't going to pay for it!
Quote from: PHall on May 29, 2007, 05:07:00 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: PHall on May 29, 2007, 04:52:34 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 29, 2007, 03:02:10 PM
Sorry - "on line" is probably a stretch - I meant via phone...
Gotcha.....just curious if the started to allow CAP on line. WHICH THEY SHOULD. It would not be hard to setup a system that allows CAP members access only to the military clothing section on line!
You have to be a military member or dependant to use AAFES.COM because the database they use to verify your eligibility to shop there is the DEERS database.
This is the same database they use to issue military and dependant ID cards.
It would take some major reworking of the system to link it with e-services. Not to mention who would pay for it.
Not necessarily, set it up so that the CAP member must call Dallas and fax AAFES the ID Card, just like now, and give them access only to the military clothing section. A IT geek could probably type up the necessary code in under an hour!
Great, so whip out your checkbook because AAFES sure ain't going to pay for it!
True that! Not to get too far off topic, while we are speaking of exchanges.....CAP members should at least have use of MWR activities. Since our purchases indirectly fund MWR thorugh AAFES. I am sure most Post and or Base Commanders with an active CAP SQD allow members to use those facilites already. Are there any members out there who are not allowed to use say the Gyms or pools or bowling alleys?
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 05:14:54 PMCAP members should at least have use of MWR activities. Since our purchases indirectly fund MWR through AAFES. I am sure most Post and or Base Commanders with an active CAP SQD allow members to use those facilities already. Are there any members out there who are not allowed to use say the Gyms or pools or bowling alleys?
Yes, on a space-available basis, and with State-Director's approval, we can generally get access to anything available...
FWIW, commissaries and exchanges do not come under the same umbrella. Exchanges are non-appropriated fund (NAF) activities that are part of the various exchange services.
Commissaries, OTOH, are appropriated funds AF) activities that are all under the Defense Commissary Agency (DeCA) umbrella. Due to that status, it is unlikely that CAP will ever get privileges there.
As for saving money, I have been shopping "on base" most of my life, and have found that I can save money on a long term basis. Every couple of years, I take a list of what we buy in a 4 month period and compare between the commissary and local grocery stores. I compare brand for brand, in identical quantities, pricing at a single grocery store, and the commissary always comes out cheaper.
Some things may be on sale, and certainly generic brands are cheaper, but that doesn't make a totally fair comparison, nor does store hopping. The time and gas used store hopping negates any savings involved.
As for gasoline, here in CA, the base beats everyone else by three or four cents a gallon, but we only get gas there when we are in the area. The price difference and distance from home don't make shopping there all the time practical.
For me, at Charleston AFB, the MCSS knows who we are and are great to deal with. The BX however most of the time will not sell to a CAP member.
Now however when I was at Ft Jackson I had Dept of the AF orders and they worked to let me buy anything, and even use the O-Club. McCrady ARNG center doesnt even care, they assume that if youre there in uniform youre fine in their books.
Okay guys, speaking as somebody who gave 31 years to the military.
Just why should you as a CAP member be allowed to use our MWR facilities?
You're not in the military. You want military benefits? Then join the military.
edit: fixed grammar error
Here we go - another "my service is better than your service".
How about "we're all in this together, its taxpayer money, and we're using this stuff for CAP activities, etc."
I believe that when I was AD, I got paid to do my job, fed three times a day, I had a bed to sleep in (sometimes) and free clothes. For what CAP members do on their own dime, they should at least be able to use SOME of the facilities.
My old squadron had no problem using facilities on base as long as we paid the fees like everyone else.
If the squadron needed/wanted to use the youth center gymnasium for something - fine...go ahead.
If we wanted to go bowling, great it's "x" amount per game per person, don't forget to rent shoes.
We hosted the Group Cadet Competition in the base gym (not the youth center one), and no one took issue or said we weren't allowed to use it. We even used the indoor track to run PT on a few times in the winter.
The uniform store was more than accomodating, every thursday they'd get 30 or so members cruisin on over for something...alterations, still no issue. The BX would allow us to buy things like camel backs, camping equipment, etc. They did limit it to things we could obviously use in CAP, no appliances, no alcohol, etc.
We would even get the commissary to donate items to us, and if they couldn't donate then they'd let us purchase from them. It wasn't really a big deal. Heck, we'd even fill up the CAP van on base...
Quote from: PHallOkay guys, speaking as somebody gave 31 years to the military.
Just why should you as a CAP member be allowed to use our MWR facilities?
You're not in the military. You want military benefits? Then join the military.
Something I'd like to say: CAP is a frontrunner in allowing people with diabilities/disqualifying medical conditions to serve their country in a semi-military capacity. For a number of CAP members, using the MWR facilities at military bases is the closest they'll ever get to experiencing what it's like to enjoy some of the benefits of military service.
So the argument "if you want military benefits, join the military" does not work for everyone.
And considering the amount CAP members give to their country as complete and total volunteers, why shouldn't they enjoy some (note:
some) of the perks of military service? Especially considering CAP members are not covered by USERRA for time taken off work to serve their country.
Quote from: PHall on May 29, 2007, 07:34:21 PM
Okay guys, speaking as somebody gave 31 years to the military.
Just why should you as a CAP member be allowed to use our MWR facilities?
You're not in the military. You want military benefits? Then join the military.
31 years? I'm assuming retired. So here's a question for ya: Why should you use the the MWR facilities now? You're not doing anything to support the military mission now.
Little different when you flip that coin, isn't it? Here's a simple answer: The more people that use those facilities, the better the facilities get or remain. And just about everybody pays something to use MWR anyway. Why turn away another person willing to pay?
Obviously PHall has never attended a CAP activity on a military base. During an activity such as a week long encampment there is a need by CAP to visit the BX for uniforms, and with the Base Commanders approval, the Commissary for a few items like a tin of coffee, suger etc. Driving a CAP van for a week around base in support of the encampment has always allowed the purchase of gas, besides which the vans are DoD funded to start with.
Quote from: BillB on May 29, 2007, 08:33:23 PM
Obviously PHall has never attended a CAP activity on a military base. During an activity such as a week long encampment there is a need by CAP to visit the BX for uniforms, and with the Base Commanders approval, the Commissary for a few items like a tin of coffee, suger etc. Driving a CAP van for a week around base in support of the encampment has always allowed the purchase of gas, besides which the vans are DoD funded to start with.
That's what it sounds like to me. Most of the time, it's handy to have someone military with the encampment, either as a "dual enrolled" (meaning both military and CAP) individual or have the installations CAP liaison with you whenever possible. Most of the liaisons enjoy spending the encampment with CAP. They can usually take a permissive TDY and get away from their desk.
Quote from: BillB on May 29, 2007, 08:33:23 PM
Driving a CAP van for a week around base in support of the encampment has always allowed the purchase of gas, besides which the vans are DOD funded to start with.
Lets also not forget that CAP came from the military, has always supported the military, and receives military money. I am a little put off by PHALL's comments about "if you want the benefits, join the military". I understand the sacrifices military members make, as I have made many. I also understand the sacrifices CAP members have made and continue to make. Lets not forget, military members are PAID for serving their country, CAP members are not. How is a CAP members service to their community any different than that of a National Guardsman who served for twenty years and not once deployed other than to Annual Training. We all should remember the time when people joined the National Guard JUST FOR THE BENEFITS (COLLEGE, AAFES etc). Big wakeup call to most of them after 9/11!
If PHALL is going to take that stance on benefits for CAP members, then I say......I am AD, I don't think retirees of any rank should be allowed on post, as they suck up too many of my benefits. Retirees get to shop early at the Commissary, they get a senior citizen discount (if applicable) at the AAFES Burger King, and they are allways in the Medical Treatment Facility taking up all the seats! Enough! No more Retiree benefits. You served your Country, great, now go retire somewhere warm and away from me.
I don't believe any of what I just typed above!
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 08:49:36 PM
I don't believe any of what I just typed above!
As long as you acknowledge it being tongue-in-cheek or a heavy dose of sarcasm, we'll forgive ya!
Quote from: PHall on May 29, 2007, 07:34:21 PM
Okay guys, speaking as somebody gave 31 years to the military.
Just why should you as a CAP member be allowed to use our MWR facilities?
You're not in the military. You want military benefits? Then join the military.
Because at most posts and bases, the MWR facilities will be lost if not used. Patrick AFB already lost its aero club.
Quote from: BillB on May 29, 2007, 08:33:23 PM
Obviously PHall has never attended a CAP activity on a military base. During an activity such as a week long encampment there is a need by CAP to visit the BX for uniforms, and with the Base Commanders approval, the Commissary for a few items like a tin of coffee, suger etc. Driving a CAP van for a week around base in support of the encampment has always allowed the purchase of gas, besides which the vans are DoD funded to start with.
I wouldn't bet on that. Been to many, many CAP activities on military bases, both active and reserve.
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 29, 2007, 08:46:31 PM
Quote from: BillB on May 29, 2007, 08:33:23 PM
Obviously PHall has never attended a CAP activity on a military base. During an activity such as a week long encampment there is a need by CAP to visit the BX for uniforms, and with the Base Commanders approval, the Commissary for a few items like a tin of coffee, suger etc. Driving a CAP van for a week around base in support of the encampment has always allowed the purchase of gas, besides which the vans are DoD funded to start with.
That's what it sounds like to me. Most of the time, it's handy to have someone military with the encampment, either as a "dual enrolled" (meaning both military and CAP) individual or have the installations CAP liaison with you whenever possible. Most of the liaisons enjoy spending the encampment with CAP. They can usually take a permissive TDY and get away from their desk.
I wouldn't make guesses about people you know nothing about.
Quote from: PHall on May 29, 2007, 11:52:19 PM
Quote from: BillB on May 29, 2007, 08:33:23 PM
Obviously PHall has never attended a CAP activity on a military base. During an activity such as a week long encampment there is a need by CAP to visit the BX for uniforms, and with the Base Commanders approval, the Commissary for a few items like a tin of coffee, suger etc. Driving a CAP van for a week around base in support of the encampment has always allowed the purchase of gas, besides which the vans are DoD funded to start with.
I wouldn't bet on that. Been to many, many CAP activities on military bases, both active and reserve.
Ok. So it just boils down to you being a military snob. Gotcha. That will make things easier.
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 08:49:36 PM
Quote from: BillB on May 29, 2007, 08:33:23 PM
Driving a CAP van for a week around base in support of the encampment has always allowed the purchase of gas, besides which the vans are DOD funded to start with.
Lets also not forget that CAP came from the military, has always supported the military, and receives military money. I am a little put off by PHALL's comments about "if you want the benefits, join the military". I understand the sacrifices military members make, as I have made many. I also understand the sacrifices CAP members have made and continue to make. Lets not forget, military members are PAID for serving their country, CAP members are not. How is a CAP members service to their community any different than that of a National Guardsman who served for twenty years and not once deployed other than to Annual Training. We all should remember the time when people joined the National Guard JUST FOR THE BENEFITS (COLLEGE, AAFES etc). Big wakeup call to most of them after 9/11!
If PHALL is going to take that stance on benefits for CAP members, then I say......I am AD, I don't think retirees of any rank should be allowed on post, as they suck up too many of my benefits. Retirees get to shop early at the Commissary, they get a senior citizen discount (if applicable) at the AAFES Burger King, and they are allways in the Medical Treatment Facility taking up all the seats! Enough! No more Retiree benefits. You served your Country, great, now go retire somewhere warm and away from me.
I don't believe any of what I just typed above!
Works for me. If you ban the retirees from the base then AAFES will go broke and DeCA (commissary) will be right behind them.
I'm an Air Force Reserve retiree, so you won't see me in the Medical Treatment Facility, not authorized.
About the only MWR activity I use on base is the barber shop at the Club.
And unlike you Active Duty guys, I don't start getting my retirement checks until my 60th birthday.
You get yours the next month.
PHall:
It wasn't too long ago that those of us with an "R" at the end of our component were not authorized to use the PX, Commissary, MWR, etc. There was a time that we "Didn't deserve" the benefits.
I actually spend just about as much time, maybe more, with CAP than I spent with the USAR. CAP is recognized as a force multiplier, and has potential to do even more.
We don't get paid, we don't get points, so why would we not "Deserve" the one tangible benefit that is good for both the CAP member AND the MWR fund?
:-X
What did I start here??? :o
Quote from: Hawk200 on May 29, 2007, 11:54:54 PM
Ok. So it just boils down to you being a military snob. Gotcha. That will make things easier.
Hey, if assigning me a label makes you happy, go for it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AAFES is a self-sustaining non-profit organization that sells items at profit and then returns the profit back into its own operations?
If so, then doesn't AAFES (including BX/PX) benefit from more people shopping there?
I understand there are tax issues with Class VI, so that's not at question (although I think our volunteers deserve tax breaks for all the work they put in FOR FREE).
Quote from: PHall on May 29, 2007, 07:34:21 PM
Okay guys, speaking as somebody who gave 31 years to the military.
Just why should you as a CAP member be allowed to use our MWR facilities?
You're not in the military. You want military benefits? Then join the military.
edit: fixed grammar error
Many or maybe even most members in CAP cannot join the military (age, physical health, etc.) which is why they chose CAP. Many of us are retired from the military. Some chose not to reenlist or keep their commission for various reasons. I, for one, received a medical discharge. Why do we want military benefits? We don't. We want military auxiliary benefits. We serve the military. We serve our country. We obviously don't feel that those benefits are a requirement for our service since we're here, doing it, but many of us feel that it would be a better thank you (or some thank you) from our country for our service and may encourage more people to join the same way benefits help recruiting into the military services.
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 30, 2007, 03:56:52 AM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but AAFES is a self-sustaining non-profit organization that sells items at profit and then returns the profit back into its own operations?
If so, then doesn't AAFES (including BX/PX) benefit from more people shopping there?
I understand there are tax issues with Class VI, so that's not at question (although I think our volunteers deserve tax breaks for all the work they put in FOR FREE).
There are sales tax issues on all merchandise purchased on base. This is a small factor at MWR activities, though.
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 30, 2007, 04:04:00 AMMany or maybe even most members in CAP cannot join the military (age, physical health, etc.) which is why they chose CAP. Many of us are retired from the military. Some chose not to reenlist or keep their commission for various reasons. I, for one, received a medical discharge.
Which is why PHall's argument doesn't work for everyone, and certainly not for anyone in CAP.
Capt Lurye, what you said is right on. Sorry to hear about your medical discharge. Thanks for your service.
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 30, 2007, 04:04:00 AMWhy do we want military benefits? We don't. We want military auxiliary benefits. We serve the military. We serve our country. We obviously don't feel that those benefits are a requirement for our service since we're here, doing it, but many of us feel that it would be a better thank you (or some thank you) from our country for our service and may encourage more people to join the same way benefits help recruiting into the military services.
(http://forums.ircspy.com/images/smilies/iagree.gif)
Capt Lurye, what you've said is what I've been trying to say all along. Thank you!
Im in the same boat Mr Hall....
The only job I EVER wanted was to be a Missile Officer for the Air Force. I joined CAP to learn the basics , got into college on a scholarship, got good marks, Did Arnies and whatnot, vollunteered within the det. and ended up sidelined due to a medical issue, which by the way doesnt affect my life or abilities at all.
I would be more then happy to PAY the Government to give me a set of butterbars. OR for that matter to just make me an E-1. I would still be HONORED to serve for 20 or thirty years. However, that decision is not mine to make. Against my wishes I Cant serve.
So, Im doing what I can for my country in CAP and the Coast Guard Aux. As for any CG Exchange rights, I live in IL and so will most likely Never see a CG BX. As for CAP, Scott AFB is 'close' and I would appriciate the ability to use the facilities there. And I would of course pay the fees.
We hear once in a while how pilots join CAP to use a base Aero Club and then become a ghost to the CAP unit.
Well, Im very active in CAP, Im going to be in it for life and Im not going to be in an Aero Club any time soon. HOWEVER I would not mind being active elsewhere on base.
Thank you for your service everyone.
Calen
Quote from: afgeo4 on May 30, 2007, 04:04:00 AM
Why do we want military benefits? We don't. We want military auxiliary benefits. We serve the military. We serve our country. We obviously don't feel that those benefits are a requirement for our service since we're here, doing it, but many of us feel that it would be a better thank you (or some thank you) from our country for our service and may encourage more people to join the same way benefits help recruiting into the military services.
I don't think we're all on the same page here. I think we need to define what we mean by "benefits" before we can have a productive discussion about them. Seems we already have
some benefits, but what "military auxiliary benefits" do you propose for CAP? What more do you see fitting? I think we need to define the "benefits" we seek.
While I can see the benefits being a "hook" for CAP members, I hardly think people are joining the military for the MWR facilities or AAFES/NEX. Perhaps the education benefits, the opportunity to travel the world, or similar things, but we're not talking about those kind of benefita for CAP. Additionally, the MWR facilities are already at the local commander's discretion (at least on Air Force installations), so I don't see those as much of a factor. As has already been mentioned, access to AAFES/NEX or DeCA facilites is overrated. In my experience, you're better off going to Wal-Mart/Kmart/Target/etc.
As an aside, the USO serves the military too. Should they get benefits? What about the American Red Cross? What about the contractors working on the base (whether they are Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, L3, etc or the grounds keepers)? Where do you draw the line? Who gets to decide? And who is going to get Congress to change the applicable laws? Perhaps the Air Force Association will champion our cause. Maybe someone needs to start the Air Force Auxiliary Association or a similar entity.
Quote from: shorning on May 30, 2007, 07:33:45 AM
...Maybe someone needs to start the Air Force Auxiliary Association or a similar entity.
I think that concept has a great deal of merit.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on May 30, 2007, 07:26:55 AM
Im in the same boat Mr Hall....
The only job I EVER wanted was to be a Missile Officer for the Air Force. I joined CAP to learn the basics , got into college on a scholarship, got good marks, Did Arnies and whatnot, vollunteered within the det. and ended up sidelined due to a medical issue, which by the way doesnt affect my life or abilities at all.
I would be more then happy to PAY the Government to give me a set of butterbars. OR for that matter to just make me an E-1. I would still be HONORED to serve for 20 or thirty years. However, that decision is not mine to make. Against my wishes I Cant serve.
So, Im doing what I can for my country in CAP and the Coast Guard Aux. As for any CG Exchange rights, I live in IL and so will most likely Never see a CG BX. As for CAP, Scott AFB is 'close' and I would appriciate the ability to use the facilities there. And I would of course pay the fees.
We hear once in a while how pilots join CAP to use a base Aero Club and then become a ghost to the CAP unit.
Well, Im very active in CAP, Im going to be in it for life and Im not going to be in an Aero Club any time soon. HOWEVER I would not mind being active elsewhere on base.
Thank you for your service everyone.
Calen
I have a similar story,
I wanted to be a tank crewman in the Army, I got an 84 on my ASVAB, but due to a genetic eye disorder- doesn't affect my life or abilities- it got me a permanent disqualification. It wasn't until college that I found out about CAP, and I've been active since then. I appreciate the benefits that we do get. I too, would do almost anything to serve in the military, but I can't. So I do all that I can, and be all that I can be.
My tale, too, is very similar.
I made it through BMTS in December of '75 ... then reported across Lackland AFB to the Security Police school. The second day of school ... bang--something in my back went haywire and I was deemed unfit for further service, and sent home on a board. It took me a while to get back on my feet (literally) and when I found CAP in 1981 it seemed like a Godsend. A way to continue serving my country, in something that was a part of the service I'd planned to dedicate my life to. Yes, CAP was a Godsend.
CAP burnout in 1996 (six years as a squadron commander and being named the next group commander) didn't change that initial feeling. And this year, God willing, I'll be coming back out of retirement with recharged batteries and a brand-new corporate uniform to shoot for having some numbers on my red service ribbon.
Jack
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 04:51:08 PM
Quote from: MIKE on May 29, 2007, 04:19:46 PM
I love being an Auxie. ;)
Not so up on the CG AUX benefits.......are you allowed to purchase anything at the exchanges. Are you allowed in Navy exchanges as well? What other benefits do you have? Can you be int he service and still be in tha AUX?
Members of the CG Aux are authorized CG Exchange/MWR privileges. They are not authorized to purchase alcohol or tobacco. They are authorized AAFES/NEX privileges for the purchase of uniforms and uniform parts only.
Yes, you can be a member of the CG Aux and be on AD or RC.
And we can buy uniforms online from UDC.
Quote from: MIKE on May 30, 2007, 10:35:38 PM
And we can buy uniforms online from UDC.
As far as I know, CAP members also have privileges at CG exchanges. They've never checked for my military ID, and I usually stop there after I finish my tour at CCAFS in CAP uniform.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on May 31, 2007, 01:16:17 AM
Quote from: MIKE on May 30, 2007, 10:35:38 PM
And we can buy uniforms online from UDC.
As far as I know, CAP members also have privileges at CG exchanges. They've never checked for my military ID, and I usually stop there after I finish my tour at CCAFS in CAP uniform.
According to the CG manual CAP is authorized CG Exchange privileges when in a travel status and occupying govt quarters. Uniform items may be purchased the same as in AAFES stores.
I've been in numerous shoppettes in various CAP uniforms, and never got carded. I think for the most part that if someone is wearing a uniform with reasonable attention to their appearance, the shoppette people don't seem to mind.
On the flip side, I've been in BX/PX's too, and there I've had to whip out the military ID, and had to show it again at the cash register. I think that most of the BX/PX people are well aware of people with dual enrolled status, so they don't care about the uniform, only the ID. As long as you're authorized Exchange usage somehow, they're making money.
You guys are probably right. The fact that I am in a uniform (and cut a very dashing appearance in that uniform, I must add!) may confuse the clerk, and she just processes the sale without undue scrutiny. I have my military ID if she wants to check, and I usually buy liquor there, so I actually expected a challenge.
When she didn't challenge me, I erroneously concluded that CAP was authorized to buy Jim Beam there.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on May 31, 2007, 01:54:13 PM
You guys are probably right. The fact that I am in a uniform (and cut a very dashing appearance in that uniform, I must add!) may confuse the clerk, and she just processes the sale without undue scrutiny. I have my military ID if she wants to check, and I usually buy liquor there, so I actually expected a challenge.
When she didn't challenge me, I erroneously concluded that CAP was authorized to buy Jim Beam there.
Probably kind of hard for them to think of an ID when they're swooning over you and all...... >:D
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on May 31, 2007, 01:54:13 PM
You guys are probably right. The fact that I am in a uniform (and cut a very dashing appearance in that uniform, I must add!) may confuse the clerk, and she just processes the sale without undue scrutiny. I have my military ID if she wants to check, and I usually buy liquor there, so I actually expected a challenge.
When she didn't challenge me, I erroneously concluded that CAP was authorized to buy Jim Beam there.
I use the Jedi Mind Trick "these are not the airmen you're looking for...you can can buy whatever you want and be on your way..."
Of course the brown cloak and the droids attract unwanted attention, but what are you gonna do?
Quote from: Eclipse on May 31, 2007, 11:05:52 PM
I use the Jedi Mind Trick "these are not the airmen you're looking for...you can can buy whatever you want and be on your way..."
Of course the brown cloak and the droids attract unwanted attention, but what are you gonna do?
Might be wiser to just not do that... ;D
They probably think we're kooky enough....