Anyone do a plane wash as a fundraiser?

[xray328]

We were discussing fundraising and the idea of a plane wash came up. One of the concerns was our liability if the cadets damaged an aircraft in the process. Do we have any coverage for something like this? Is it even worth attempting given the potential for damaging someone's plane?

What do you charge to wash a plane?

Would anyone even use our services?

Thanks!

[MSG Mac]

Talk to your Wing Legal Officer. There are very strict guidelines on fund raising and they must be approved by Wing Hq and reviewed by the LO.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

I would not even consider letting CAP Cadets wash my plane.  No offense, but how do I know they even know what they are doing?  their training?  Would they even know what materials to use?  No.  I will wash my own plane thank you.

[jeders]

I'm gonna have to agree with Cliff on this one. Washing an airplane is a lot different than washing a car. You can't use just any old soap or any old rag; as some cleansers will actually corrode aluminum, and the wrong rag can severely scratch a windscreen.

Now we have done plane washes, but they were all internal to the squadron, meaning a member would donate some money to the squadron for getting his plane washed. Also, we always had several people on hand who knew what they were doing.

If I were doing an ORM matrix on this, the risk would be high, with medium probability; too high for the average CAP squadron considering the minimal gain.

[xray328]

Ok thanks. I saw a Boy Scout troops running a similar fundraiser at a fly-in so I thought our cadets would be at least as qualified if not more so (under the supervision of a squadron pilot) to pull it off.

[xray328]

I would not even consider letting CAP Cadets wash my plane.  No offense, but how do I know they even know what they are doing?  their training?  Would they even know what materials to use?  No.  I will wash my own plane thank you.

Well, they'd be instructed by a squadron or group pilot prior to and during the fundraiser.

[Holding Pattern]

Is it even worth attempting given the potential for damaging someone's plane?

Nope. The risk/reward matrix is not in our favor on this one. Stick to cars. For the most part, accidentally torching a car will still be cheaper than a lot of the ways someone can accidentally fubar an aircraft.

[EMT-83]

We had a cadet break an antenna while washing a CAP plane, never mind the potential for damaging a privately owned aircraft.

[xray328]

Sounds like there's plenty of reasons not to do this, thanks guy.

[Mitchell 1969]

Sounds like there's plenty of reasons not to do this, thanks guy.

Just to frost the cake:

Many/most airports have restrictions on business operations, requiring compliance with a permit process. If your airport has granted a license to a company or companies to wash airplanes, they could be interfering with those businesses by allowing your free-lance effort.

Also, there are usually restrictions on where airplanes can be washed, with many of those places on leaseholds, with leaseholds often having their own wash services or selling rights for non-owner wash services.

Finally - environmental. The days of hosing it down, scrubbing and rinsing off, without knowing exactly where the rinsed stuffed is going, are long gone.

[JacobAnn]

Washing an airplane is a lot different than washing a car.

That is obviously true but our local high school cheerleaders have an annual car wash fundraiser and I believe in supporting them.  Last year they managed to break my windshield.  This year I just gave them a donation and washed my own car.

[Holding Pattern]

Washing an airplane is a lot different than washing a car.

That is obviously true but our local high school cheerleaders have an annual car wash fundraiser and I believe in supporting them.  Last year they managed to break my windshield.  This year I just gave them a donation and washed my own car.

The good news is that if you were truly irate and demanded they pay for it, the cost of repair wouldn't go over $500 for most cars.

They could hold a car wash to pay for it.

[Mitchell 1969]

Washing an airplane is a lot different than washing a car.

That is obviously true but our local high school cheerleaders have an annual car wash fundraiser and I believe in supporting them.  Last year they managed to break my windshield.  This year I just gave them a donation and washed my own car.

The good news is that if you were truly irate and demanded they pay for it, the cost of repair wouldn't go over $500 for most cars.

They could hold a car wash to pay for it.

I can see it now...the cheerleaders bake sale to raise funds to cover damages from the cheerleaders car wash...

[xray328]

Just wondering...since our cadets are in fact around a lot of planes...for instance at Blue Beret, how does CAP cover damage our cadets might do to an aircraft?

[PHall]

Just wondering...since our cadets are in fact around a lot of planes...for instance at Blue Beret, how does CAP cover damage our cadets might do to an aircraft?

At Blue Beret CAP is working for the EAA and if I am not mistaken, CAP is covered by their insurance since are working as a "contractor" for EAA.

[JeffDG]

Just wondering...since our cadets are in fact around a lot of planes...for instance at Blue Beret, how does CAP cover damage our cadets might do to an aircraft?

At Blue Beret CAP is working for the EAA and if I am not mistaken, CAP is covered by their insurance since are working as a "contractor" for EAA.

Contractors are generally required to maintain their own insurance.

[SarDragon]

The good news is that if you were truly irate and demanded they pay for it, the cost of repair wouldn't go over $500 for most cars.

They could hold a car wash to pay for it.

My Suburban windshield is less than $200.

[Mitchell 1969]

Just wondering...since our cadets are in fact around a lot of planes...for instance at Blue Beret, how does CAP cover damage our cadets might do to an aircraft?

At Blue Beret CAP is working for the EAA and if I am not mistaken, CAP is covered by their insurance since are working as a "contractor" for EAA.

Contractors are generally required to maintain their own insurance.

"Generally" doesn't matter. What counts is the "specifically," as outlined in the contract. (I certainly hope that liability and indemnification are addressed, somewhere, somehow, in that document).

[JeffDG]

Just wondering...since our cadets are in fact around a lot of planes...for instance at Blue Beret, how does CAP cover damage our cadets might do to an aircraft?

At Blue Beret CAP is working for the EAA and if I am not mistaken, CAP is covered by their insurance since are working as a "contractor" for EAA.

Contractors are generally required to maintain their own insurance.

"Generally" doesn't matter. What counts is the "specifically," as outlined in the contract. (I certainly hope that liability and indemnification are addressed, somewhere, somehow, in that document).

Regardless of what it says in the CAP-EAA contract, a damaged aircraft owner is not bound to the terms of that contract (odds are said aircraft owner is not a party to the contract) and is entirely free to seek redress from either or both parties.

[Mitchell 1969]

Just wondering...since our cadets are in fact around a lot of planes...for instance at Blue Beret, how does CAP cover damage our cadets might do to an aircraft?

At Blue Beret CAP is working for the EAA and if I am not mistaken, CAP is covered by their insurance since are working as a "contractor" for EAA.

Contractors are generally required to maintain their own insurance.

"Generally" doesn't matter. What counts is the "specifically," as outlined in the contract. (I certainly hope that liability and indemnification are addressed, somewhere, somehow, in that document).

Regardless of what it says in the CAP-EAA contract, a damaged aircraft owner is not bound to the terms of that contract (odds are said aircraft owner is not a party to the contract) and is entirely free to seek redress from either or both parties.

Sure. But seek doesn't mean get.

[JeffDG]

Just wondering...since our cadets are in fact around a lot of planes...for instance at Blue Beret, how does CAP cover damage our cadets might do to an aircraft?

At Blue Beret CAP is working for the EAA and if I am not mistaken, CAP is covered by their insurance since are working as a "contractor" for EAA.

Contractors are generally required to maintain their own insurance.

"Generally" doesn't matter. What counts is the "specifically," as outlined in the contract. (I certainly hope that liability and indemnification are addressed, somewhere, somehow, in that document).

Regardless of what it says in the CAP-EAA contract, a damaged aircraft owner is not bound to the terms of that contract (odds are said aircraft owner is not a party to the contract) and is entirely free to seek redress from either or both parties.

Sure. But seek doesn't mean get.

If CAP is liable, yes it does.

CAP would then need to seek reimbursement from EAA.  An indemnification clause does not change a damaged party's right to demand payment from CAP.

[Mitchell 1969]

Just wondering...since our cadets are in fact around a lot of planes...for instance at Blue Beret, how does CAP cover damage our cadets might do to an aircraft?

At Blue Beret CAP is working for the EAA and if I am not mistaken, CAP is covered by their insurance since are working as a "contractor" for EAA.

Contractors are generally required to maintain their own insurance.

"Generally" doesn't matter. What counts is the "specifically," as outlined in the contract. (I certainly hope that liability and indemnification are addressed, somewhere, somehow, in that document).

Regardless of what it says in the CAP-EAA contract, a damaged aircraft owner is not bound to the terms of that contract (odds are said aircraft owner is not a party to the contract) and is entirely free to seek redress from either or both parties.

Sure. But seek doesn't mean get.

If CAP is liable, yes it does.

CAP would then need to seek reimbursement from EAA.  An indemnification clause does not change a damaged party's right to demand payment from CAP.

And...get comes after liable which comes after seek. So what point are you trying to make?

(If it's the last word you are trying to achieve, I'll step aside. You can respond with a simple "A" and your goal will have been met).

[jeders]

Just wondering...since our cadets are in fact around a lot of planes...for instance at Blue Beret, how does CAP cover damage our cadets might do to an aircraft?

As I understand it, CAP personnel have previously damaged privately owned aircraft at AirVenture and CAP or the member involved had to pay for the damage. This is why we generally don't touch aircraft as a part of our duties.