CAP = Big Brother?

[ZigZag911]

Clearly, someone's elevator does not go to the top floor!

[JeffDG]

However, if that same person begins regaling me with tales of his participation in KKK meetings, and the superiority of the White Race, my respect will end rather abruptly. 

You should walk away.  But that does not mean disrespectfully.

Then for you, it's about White Supremists?  Anyone else?  Those who are Black Supremists?  Someone wearing a confederate civil war hat?  Someone who disagrees with you about anything?  Those who have blue eyes?  Someone you don't find cute?

If you draw the line someplace, then you're not exercising respect in your daily life, which means it's not a value of yours.

Having been through a lot of this core value stuff with many different companies, I have to ask you - do you really embrace the CAP core values or are they just nice things to say so we mirror the Air Force?  Are they in fact our values and you aren't quite with them or does everyone feel like you do and the core values are just empty words? 

Because if they're just empty words, I'll quit defending them.  Buf if you embrace them, then I will continue to call you out for not practicing them ALL the time.  The core values don't have limts, they are about YOU, not others.

Which, to me at least, go back to so many threads on this board - respect is not shown in many places and harshness and hard feelings result.  When respect is shown and returned, there is an opportunity for change...without it there is resentment and resistance.

Saying that "Respect" is absolute leads to other absurd conclusions.

Do you volunteer 100% of your time?  Volunteer Service is not limited!  You should be doing volunteer service 24 hours a day, or that core value is without meaning and an empty vow.

How about Excellence.  Is everything you do at an exceptional level?  Do you do anything that you're not an expert at.  Excellence, when taken to an absolute means that you should not do it if you cannot do it perfectly.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.  None of the Core Values are absolute, and if you think they are, you don't comprehend them.

[bflynn]

However, if that same person begins regaling me with tales of his participation in KKK meetings, and the superiority of the White Race, my respect will end rather abruptly. 

You should walk away.  But that does not mean disrespectfully.

Then for you, it's about White Supremists?  Anyone else?  Those who are Black Supremists?  Someone wearing a confederate civil war hat?  Someone who disagrees with you about anything?  Those who have blue eyes?  Someone you don't find cute?

If you draw the line someplace, then you're not exercising respect in your daily life, which means it's not a value of yours.

Having been through a lot of this core value stuff with many different companies, I have to ask you - do you really embrace the CAP core values or are they just nice things to say so we mirror the Air Force?  Are they in fact our values and you aren't quite with them or does everyone feel like you do and the core values are just empty words? 

Because if they're just empty words, I'll quit defending them.  Buf if you embrace them, then I will continue to call you out for not practicing them ALL the time.  The core values don't have limts, they are about YOU, not others.

Which, to me at least, go back to so many threads on this board - respect is not shown in many places and harshness and hard feelings result.  When respect is shown and returned, there is an opportunity for change...without it there is resentment and resistance.

Saying that "Respect" is absolute leads to other absurd conclusions.

Do you volunteer 100% of your time?  Volunteer Service is not limited!  You should be doing volunteer service 24 hours a day, or that core value is without meaning and an empty vow.

How about Excellence.  Is everything you do at an exceptional level?  Do you do anything that you're not an expert at.  Excellence, when taken to an absolute means that you should not do it if you cannot do it perfectly.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.  None of the Core Values are absolute, and if you think they are, you don't comprehend them.

To say that CORE values are not absolute mistakes what the word core mean.  Your core values are what at inside of you.  They are who you are all the time.  You either have a value that is core to your being or you do not.  If you don't - then you don't.  It's neither better nor worse except from the standpoint of alignment with the stated values of CAP.

Do not mistake who you are with what you do...they are different.  Do I volunteer 24 hours a day?  No, of course not.  But I stand ready to serve others 24 hours a day and service is a huge part of my life.  Why?  Because service to others is one of my core values.

Am I perfect?  No, I am human.  I get tired and mess up too.  And then I try to do it better.

If you're not understanding this and you don't respect me, then your answer is to dis me and walk away, right?  No big deal, I'm not offended by how you choose to react.  My answer is that if you don't understand this, I will continue patiently trying to say it in different ways until you do understand.

Core values are core - they are who you are all the time.  CAP has core values.  If you do not have the same core values, then you can reflect on what CAP's core values would do for you and for CAP if you adopt them, or you can choose not to have them.  If you think you do, then critically analyze what you do and think to represent those.  It isn't necessary to be perfect, just be the best that you can.

[Eclipse]

Excellence, when taken to an absolute means that you should not do it if you cannot do it perfectly.

No, it means you strive to do your best at all times.

[wuzafuzz]

I was just looking at the People of WalMart website, practicing being respectful.  Failed miserably.  Fortunately no one was here to see it.

[Flying Pig]

I deal with people all day long who "demand" that I respect them.  Being rude generally isnt called for but respecting some nut jobs misguided delusional view of reality point of view isnt going to happen.

[Garibaldi]

Big, BIG difference between commanding respect and DEMANDING respect.

[♠SARKID♠]

Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Mr. President!  We cannot allow a mineshaft gap!

[bflynn]

Big, BIG difference between commanding respect and DEMANDING respect.

I'd even say there's there's a big difference between the two above and giving respect.  What you described above is directed from you to others and is about YOU getting respect.  Giving respect without expectation of having it returned is difficult and I think a core value we could all use more of.

As far as others demanding respect?  I think they're probably demanding a level of submission - that isn't about respect, at least not to me.

[JeffDG]

Core values are core - they are who you are all the time.  CAP has core values.  If you do not have the same core values, then you can reflect on what CAP's core values would do for you and for CAP if you adopt them, or you can choose not to have them.  If you think you do, then critically analyze what you do and think to represent those.  It isn't necessary to be perfect, just be the best that you can.

Why is it that some core values are absolute to you (like respect), but others are not (like volunteer service)?

In terms of respect, I give respect very freely.  But that said, there are those who show that they are unworthy of any form of respect.  At that point, when the evidence is clear that they deserve no respect, I will withdraw same.  Respect that is absolute and not subject to any thought is not respect, it is robbed of its meaning.  It is a meaningless "catch phrase."  Only when it is considered and weighed appropriately does it have meaning.  If you want to respect everyone, that's fine.  But your respect is meaningless, and IMHO, not in the spirit of CAP's core values. 

My respect is freely given, but it has limits that are carefully considered and weighed.  By actually thinking about it, I give it value.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

While respect is important on all fronts, respect can be lost. Just as trust.

If someone lies to me enough, I'm not going to trust them anymore.
Just as;
If someone proves to me enough that they are a sack of dirt, I won't respect them anymore.

Respect isn't infinite, it has an end, and that come abruptly when I hear racial slurs from them all day long, or when I hear it enough times that they have no desire to help their brothers.

The same thing tends to happen when someone tells me that I must respect them. If they demand respect out of the gate without a reason for me to respect them, there won't be much respect out of the gate. Now if someone is in a position that demands respect, like a superior or a subordinate, I will respect them, until they prove they don't deserve respect.

If we contstantly go on the idea that all must be respected, and their values must be respected, and their decisions and actions must be respected at all times, then an issue arises. That issue would hit CAP like a huge brick wall covered in human feces. The issue being that criminals would be in CAP, and people who want to steal from CAP and abuse their powerwold still be in CAP,  and in high places.

This is true, and you can't deny it. Because in order to remove someone from CAP service requires you to have no respect for them or their actions.

[johnnyb47]

I have a feeling he is getting exactly the kind of respect he is hoping for.

[bflynn]

Why is it that some core values are absolute to you (like respect), but others are not (like volunteer service)?

You didn't understand - they are all absolute - they are either a part of you or they are not.  You either have respect ingrained into you or you do not.  You have a service mindset or you do not. 

Now - there IS a difference between respect and service - that respect can be given to all without effort.  Service cannot be given to all because your time is not infinite.

But you didn't see that because you see service as an action, not a value.  A value is a noun, action is a verb.  The two are different.

[JeffDG]

Why is it that some core values are absolute to you (like respect), but others are not (like volunteer service)?

You didn't understand - they are all absolute - they are either a part of you or they are not.  You either have respect ingrained into you or you do not.  You have a service mindset or you do not. 

Now - there IS a difference between respect and service - that respect can be given to all without effort.  Service cannot be given to all because your time is not infinite.

But you didn't see that because you see service as an action, not a value.  A value is a noun, action is a verb.  The two are different.

If service is an absolute, then you are either giving 24/7/366 voluntary service, or you're not giving any.

If respect is absolute, it's a meaningless buzz-word.  Only by defining limits on respect do you give the term meaning.  If you're not willing to put even that effort into it, then you are simply spouting meaningless pablum about respect.

[bflynn]

This is true, and you can't deny it. Because in order to remove someone from CAP service requires you to have no respect for them or their actions.

Oh my goodness, I certainly hope not!  That is an incredibly hateful and harmful thing to say.

As a manager, I've had to fire three people for cause.  It sucks, after one of them I had to take the rest of the day off.  But never, ever, did I not respect them.  They were simply not fit what we were doing.  That's not better or worse, it's just different.  They didn't match with the values and/or needs of the organization, so they were seperated.  As it should be.

Respect IS a black and white - either you have respect inside of you or you do not.  If you do not respect other people as human beings, not matter what they've done - then you don't have respect.  Yes, there are people who do horrible things, far worse than racism.  Yet, as soon as you start saying that they don't deserve respect, then all kinds of horrible behavior on your part becomes possible...because in your eyes, they now deserve it, they are less than you are.  A simple if somewhat extreme rhetorical question - if all Germans has respected all Jewish people, could the Holocaust have happened? 

Yes, you have standards.  Yes, you keep your standards, you uphold them and protect them.  You do not accept what is less than the standard.  You do not tolerate those who are outside your standard and you can condemn what someone does badly.  But never, ever do you stop respecting others. 

I go back to what I've said before - this is about you, not them.  You either respect people all the time - or you don't.  If you respect, then always do it - or at least always try.  You'll find that you cannot hate and despise someone when you force yourself to give them respect.  If you do not respect everyone all the time, then respect is not a part of your core values.  That's fine too...I'm not condemning that and I don't respect anyone less for lacking it. 

The only additional thing I will say - if you don't practice respect all the time, then you don't match CAP core values. 

Think on this - I don't know how young or old you are now, but perhaps when you're older still, it will make sense.  It's a pretty good way to go through life and you'll be amazed at how many problems disappear when sincere respect is practiced on all sides.

If I'm talking about you, you can either get angry at me and stop respecting me or you can challenge yourself to try respect. 

[bflynn]

If service is an absolute, then you are either giving 24/7/366 voluntary service, or you're not giving any.

If respect is absolute, it's a meaningless buzz-word.  Only by defining limits on respect do you give the term meaning.  If you're not willing to put even that effort into it, then you are simply spouting meaningless pablum about respect.

No, I see that you're still not getting it - how can I put it differently?

Values are about your attitude.  You have your attitidue 24x7.

Actions are what you do.

CAP does not have a core value that we perform volunteer actions.  CAP has a core value of volunteer service.  The value is the personal inner belief that the action of volunteer service is valuable.  It does not require you to be a volunteer for every organization all the time to value service.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have found over my lifetimethat respect is earned while courtesy may be given.  They are not the same, though there is some overlap.

I can be courteous to a complete stranger without knowing them or anything about them (simple example: motioning for someone looking to pull into traffic to go ahead of me).

Given that I am very reserved in person, that can too often be mistaken for discourtesy or disrespect, when I do not intend it that way.

There are different kinds of respect.  One can even respect an enemy.  Witness the fact that in the Second World War, in most cases Allied airmen killed over mainland Europe were given respectful burials by the Germans (SS excepted) and that Luftwaffe aircrew shot down and killed over Britain were treated much the same by the British.  Sadly, it wasn't usually the same with the Japanese.

I can respect a king cobra in that I know it has the power to kill me.

I respect the office of President of the United States, even though I may or may not respect the person holding it.

I do not respect a murderer, etc., who is guilty and unrepentant.

I do not respect someone who thinks that all other races, religions, nationalities, creeds, etc. are "inferior" to theirs.

I will not pretend to be courteous to such people.

I try my hardest (not always successfully) to let them rent out headspace in my mind...to allow that shows that at some level, I do care about them and what they think.  Again, I'm not always successful.

[SarDragon]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

[Sapper168]

Can we just go ahead and turn this into a uniform thread?   Its page three already and it hasn't happened, captalk is lagging behind.

[RogueLeader]

Can we just go ahead and turn this into a uniform thread?   Its page three already and it hasn't happened, captalk is lagging behind.

I think I need a tin foil hat to protect me from the tin foil hatters.  Then I'd have to either get a ICL or a waiver.  If I did that, then I'd look like a tin-foil hatter, then they'd expect me to believe it too.  Nuts. . .

Already done.