CAP = Big Brother?

[wuzafuzz]

Google Alerts found this for me: 

http://planet.infowars.com/uncategorized/f-e-m-a-s-brother-in-the-sky-the-civil-air-patrol

Having a serious libertarian bent, the thought of my participation in a Big Brother organization is laughable.  There are some evil folks out there, but CAP?  Please.

While the folks who see ninjas and lizard people behind every tree will never be our fans, it is a good reminder that our uniforms intimidate some people.  Professional conduct matters.

[Garibaldi]

Funny thing about this is, a few years ago when the first X-Files movie came out, one of the characters/conspiracy theorists was going off about who was trying to take over the country in the event of a major catastrophe/UFO/Alien event, and he said it was FEMA. I laughed out loud in the theater, because it was around that time that some of our operational control was being chopped over to FEMA in the event of a major catastrophe. I was envisioning CAP as the enforcement arm of the "new government" and couldn't control myself. Nearly got thrown out of the theater.

*later*

Just read the article. Wow, clearly this person has some serious issues. I wonder if he had to take off his tinfoil hat when he went inside the store. Hitler Youth? That's a LOT extreme. Someone slip that boy some meds, quick!

[BFreemanMA]

Wow. Some people clearly have too much free time. I hope the author in the link never gets lost and needs to rely on our services!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Clearly, this SeeAyPee Cadet Youth thing started with His Dictatorship Obama wanting to brainwash the youth. 

[Thrashed]

CAP Cadets = Hitler youth. Funny. :clap:

[Cool Mace]

I needed a good laugh this morning!   

I love how people don't even bother to do any research, and just open their mouths instead.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

And you can't post a reply to the article unless you sign up for an account. Oh the irony. 

[Flying Pig]

The cadets barred his escape and forced a pamphlet on him     That article is the rantings of a serious nut job.   As funny as it is to read its actually fairly disturbing. 

[Cool Mace]

Mr. Robinson, or 1st Lt Robinson, has posted a nice little reply in the comments at the bottom in case any of you missed it.

Excellent Job, LT!


:EDIT: He may be a Capt. now.

[lordmonar]

What I got out of it.

a) All things government are bad.
b) Cops are very bad.
c) Uniforms are bad.
d) Logical arguments are optional on this particular site.
e) Godwins's Law is not inforce on this particular site.

I know nothing about an organisation that has existed for 70 years.....now I am concerned.

I wonder if he has heard about the dangers of dihydromonoxide? 

[davedove]

I wonder if he has heard about the dangers of dihydromonoxide? 

The real danger comes when the add flouride!!!

[lordmonar]

I wonder if he has heard about the dangers of dihydromonoxide? 

The real danger comes when the add flouride!!!

Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

[a2capt]

Lebanon, Charlse de Gaulle, California baseball .. Starkweather, homicide, children of thalidomide ..

[JeffDG]

I wonder if he has heard about the dangers of dihydromonoxide? 

Did you know that all cancerous tumors contain DHMO?  Every. Single. One.

DHMO has been found in our lakes and rivers!

[wuzafuzz]

The cadets barred his escape and forced a pamphlet on him     That article is the rantings of a serious nut job.   As funny as it is to read its actually fairly disturbing.

Totally agree.  Some of the comments talked about confronting the CAP members.  I can't imagine that going well with an unhinged person involved.

[wuzafuzz]

I hope the author in the link never gets lost and needs to rely on our services!

He would probably hide from us. 

"Camo-dudes are gonna git me!" 

[jimmydeanno]

Lebanon, Charlse de Gaulle, California baseball .. Starkweather, homicide, children of thalidomide ..

Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British Politician [encounters], J.F.K. blown away, what else do I have to say?

[Flying Pig]

I hope the author in the link never gets lost and needs to rely on our services!

He would probably hide from us. 

"Camo-dudes are gonna git me!"

Had that happen before.  After he self rescued about a week after we started searching, his comment was "I wasnt lost"  No Thank You, no "Geeez, sorry for all that effort" etc etc.  He said several times that we flew right over him but that he was under no obligation to make himself knows, although he new he was several days past due.  What-a-ya-do? 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British Politician [encounters], J.F.K. blown away, what else do I have to say?

Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs Invasion...

The article said "an Air Force officer."

Most likely a CAP officer, nicht wahr?

Good cripes anyway...the Hitlerjugend?

[spacecommand]

lol the hitleryouth seriously?  We were attacking U-boats in WW2.

CAP has big brother lolol, there was a couple of youtube videos where a commenter was saying CAP was secretly spying on folks when we fly around ha. 

You can seriously tell this guy has never stepped foot into a CAP meeting.

[NCRblues]

Did anyone else notice, than in his response to Mr. Robinson, he stated he had been in the army and was an NCO....

So...only the USAF is part of the mass conspiracy and not the US Army?  righhhhhhhht

[Private Investigator]

wow some people have to much free time.   

[SarDragon]

d00d's got a seriously slipped foil hat.  :angel:

[Blues Brother]

What I got out of it.

a) All things government are bad.
b) Cops are very bad.
c) Uniforms are bad.
d) Logical arguments are optional on this particular site.
e) Godwins's Law is not inforce on this particular site.

I know nothing about an organisation that has existed for 70 years.....now I am concerned.

I wonder if he has heard about the dangers of dihydromonoxide? 

I just envisioned Mr. Mackee from South Park saying these......... Uniforms are bad, Mmmkay... Cops are bad, Mmmmkay...   LOL!!!!

[Blues Brother]

d00d's got a seriously slipped foil hat.  :angel:

I know this might sound selfish and rude, but sometimes I love reading stuff like that or talking to "tinfoil hat" people.  they crack me up.  I cant help but be entertained by their views sometimes.  I know, its kinda rude as they are often so misguided, but I cant help but find humor in it.

[JROB]

And you can't post a reply to the article unless you sign up for an account. Oh the irony.

I noticed that...but I took the time to make an account anyway.

Mr. Robinson, or 1st Lt Robinson, has posted a nice little reply in the comments at the bottom in case any of you missed it.

Excellent Job, LT!

I felt that the normal joe reading his post needed to be educated about what CAP is. The guy said in his very rude response that he's "done his homework on our organization", he turned it in and I give him an F.

So...only the USAF is part of the mass conspiracy and not the US Army?  righhhhhhhht

No the army is bad too. His cronies sat at a gas station across the street from Camp Swift in Bastrop, TX filming they claimed that there was a FEMA camp on the base. When the base commander and XO went to confront them they refused to give any information. So the base commander called the county sheriff. His worst nightmare men in camo and men with badges.

[Flying Pig]

....OOOOOOO, not FEMA!  Thats pretty much a whack job right there. 

[RogueLeader]

I think I need a tin foil hat to protect me from the tin foil hatters.  Then I'd have to either get a ICL or a waiver.  If I did that, then I'd look like a tin-foil hatter, then they'd expect me to believe it too.  Nuts. . .

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I know this might sound selfish and rude, but sometimes I love reading stuff like that or talking to "tinfoil hat" people.  they crack me up.  I cant help but be entertained by their views sometimes.  I know, its kinda rude as they are often so misguided, but I cant help but find humor in it.

I confess to the same amusement.  I think of the old Dr Demento song "Funny Farm."

I've had some entertaining online exchanges with some of these conspiracy theorists...what is sad is that many of them are quite serious.

If it weren't out of line with conduct in uniform, I would have really had some fun with this particular lot.

"Actually, this uniform also has secret insignia of the New World Order.  I'm waiting for the signal from Field Marshal Elvis Presley to begin preparations for the UFO invasion."

[a2capt]

Iron Sky Official Theatrical Trailer [HD]

[usafcap1]

I stopped reading after "Obama's civilian forces are growing, folks". What a joke!!!

[bflynn]

Disclaimer - I'm not defending the link posted - I've read it and I disagree.  So do you.  However, I'm going to make a request.  In the future, I'd prefer to see more RESPECT for all view points, even the ones that you disagree with.  Perhaps especially the ones that you disagree with.

Reading through this thread, I see the words "tinfoil hat", extreme, meds, too much free time, a suggestion that we wouldn't go find this guy (assuming we ever know who we're looking for), funny, worth a good laugh, that the cadet were aggressively recruiting, that the man is paranoid and unhinged.

That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of one of the four core values of CAP, is it?  There are ways to disagree, even to strongly disagree, while still showing respect.

It's an important life skill.

[JeffDG]

Respect has limits.

When people start blathering about 9/11 being an inside job, I break out the tinfoil and offer 'em a piece.

[bflynn]

Respect has limits.

NO.

Respect has no limit. 

It's not something that's only offered to those you agree with.  If you believe that that there are times to disrespect, then you're challenging one of the core values of CAP. 

You don't have to like it, but showing respect to everyone...as I said, perhaps especiaily to those you disagree with... is important. 

[Garibaldi]

Disclaimer - I'm not defending the link posted - I've read it and I disagree.  So do you.  However, I'm going to make a request.  In the future, I'd prefer to see more RESPECT for all view points, even the ones that you disagree with.  Perhaps especially the ones that you disagree with.

Reading through this thread, I see the words "tinfoil hat", extreme, meds, too much free time, a suggestion that we wouldn't go find this guy (assuming we ever know who we're looking for), funny, worth a good laugh, that the cadet were aggressively recruiting, that the man is paranoid and unhinged.

That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of one of the four core values of CAP, is it?  There are ways to disagree, even to strongly disagree, while still showing respect.

It's an important life skill.

Please keep in mind that CAPTalk is NOT an official CAP outlet. There are a lot of varying lifestyles, opinions, religions, political views etc that are expressed here. True, NHQ and lower commands peruse this board but it is NOT an official outlet.

The poster in the linked article was pretty critical of CAP, what little he knows about it. Of course we are going to respond in kind. Had he been a CAP member spouting off this bilge then yes, I'm pretty sure that we would be a little gentler, but not too much (think Radioman).

Yes, we need to be a little more tolerant of any view points, but this was a bit extreme. Why post it if you don't think we're going to have a knee-jerk reaction? It's really too bad that we can't find the guy and explain to him what CAP is about, little good that it might do. Once people start with the conspiracy theories, it's really hard to explain the facts to them.

[JeffDG]

Respect has limits.

NO.

Respect has no limit. 

It's not something that's only offered to those you agree with.  If you believe that that there are times to disrespect, then you're challenging one of the core values of CAP. 

You don't have to like it, but showing respect to everyone...as I said, perhaps especiaily to those you disagree with... is important.

I do not concur.

Respect is a default position, not an absolute one.  If I meet someone on the street, I treat them with respect.  However, if that same person begins regaling me with tales of his participation in KKK meetings, and the superiority of the White Race, my respect will end rather abruptly.  I will not give any respect to people such as that.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^I have found that once someone is set in their way of thinking, it takes nothing less than a miracle to change that mindset...and I am as guilty of it as anyone.

Living not too far from the Canadian border, I hear some really odd stuff.  A couple of years ago, there were some Canadian Army personnel who came over to do exercises with the U.S. military, chiefly the National Guard.  The local "call-in" column in the newspaper said stuff like the "real" purpose for those troops being here was a secret plot to overthrow what happened in 1776 and incorporate the U.S.A. back into the British Empire (which no longer exists, except for places like the Falkland and Cayman Islands; the Commonwealth is quite different to the Empire), based on the fact that one can occasionally see the Union Jack flown in Canada.  Then, of course, the "discourse" degenerated into the standard gear about "black helicopters," etc.

Too many viewings of Red Dawn.

It is really hard for me not to see such postulated ridiculousness as a way to exercise my near-perfect poker-faced, wickedly dry sense of humour.  Example: I once had a co-worker virtually convinced that I was an android (of course, my dull-as-a-butter-knife personality helped).

However, I would never actually do it in uniform, nor identify myself as a CAP officer should I do so...and chances are I wouldn't even do it anyway, unless someone really gets in my face with it, and then I still wouldn't do it in uniform or identify myself as a CAP officer.

If I meet someone on the street, I treat them with respect. 

As do I, until/unless/if the person gives me a reason not to.  Thankfully, that is rare.

However, if that same person begins regaling me with tales of his participation in KKK meetings, and the superiority of the White Race, my respect will end rather abruptly.  I will not give any respect to people such as that.

Nor will I.  My preferred response is to walk away and not take it any further.

However, I have run across neo-Nazi types before, big gut hanging out of bad knockoffs of SS uniform...my favourite tactic there is to start asking them questions in German (which I speak) and watch their bewildered expressions.

[AngelWings]

The man is insane. I show pity, not respect, for these mentally incompetent men.

[JeffDG]

Living not too far from the Canadian border, I hear some really odd stuff.  A couple of years ago, there were some Canadian Army personnel who came over to do exercises with the U.S. military, chiefly the National Guard.  The local "call-in" column in the newspaper said stuff like the "real" purpose for those troops being here was a secret plot to overthrow what happened in 1776 and incorporate the U.S.A. back into the British Empire (which no longer exists, except for places like the Falkland and Cayman Islands; the Commonwealth is quite different to the Empire), based on the fact that one can occasionally see the Union Jack flown in Canada.  Then, of course, the "discourse" degenerated into the standard gear about "black helicopters," etc.

Those guys would have had a field day when the Canadian Army stormed a NC beach back in 2006

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?nomobile=1&f=1&t=70103

The exercise is set for Nov. 16 when a company of troops from Quebec's Royal 22nd Regiment, the Van Doos, will storm ashore from the USS Gunston Hall, an American amphibious assault ship.

Also participating will be detachment of Canadian Sea King helicopters, converted to carry troops from ship to shore.

"It's a chance to experiment, to build and understand an amphibious capability," said Maj. Mario Couture, spokesman for the Canadian army. "I'm not sure whether this is a lost art for us."

[bflynn]

However, if that same person begins regaling me with tales of his participation in KKK meetings, and the superiority of the White Race, my respect will end rather abruptly. 

You should walk away.  But that does not mean disrespectfully.

Then for you, it's about White Supremists?  Anyone else?  Those who are Black Supremists?  Someone wearing a confederate civil war hat?  Someone who disagrees with you about anything?  Those who have blue eyes?  Someone you don't find cute?

If you draw the line someplace, then you're not exercising respect in your daily life, which means it's not a value of yours.

Having been through a lot of this core value stuff with many different companies, I have to ask you - do you really embrace the CAP core values or are they just nice things to say so we mirror the Air Force?  Are they in fact our values and you aren't quite with them or does everyone feel like you do and the core values are just empty words? 

Because if they're just empty words, I'll quit defending them.  Buf if you embrace them, then I will continue to call you out for not practicing them ALL the time.  The core values don't have limts, they are about YOU, not others.

Which, to me at least, go back to so many threads on this board - respect is not shown in many places and harshness and hard feelings result.  When respect is shown and returned, there is an opportunity for change...without it there is resentment and resistance.

[ZigZag911]

Clearly, someone's elevator does not go to the top floor!

[JeffDG]

However, if that same person begins regaling me with tales of his participation in KKK meetings, and the superiority of the White Race, my respect will end rather abruptly. 

You should walk away.  But that does not mean disrespectfully.

Then for you, it's about White Supremists?  Anyone else?  Those who are Black Supremists?  Someone wearing a confederate civil war hat?  Someone who disagrees with you about anything?  Those who have blue eyes?  Someone you don't find cute?

If you draw the line someplace, then you're not exercising respect in your daily life, which means it's not a value of yours.

Having been through a lot of this core value stuff with many different companies, I have to ask you - do you really embrace the CAP core values or are they just nice things to say so we mirror the Air Force?  Are they in fact our values and you aren't quite with them or does everyone feel like you do and the core values are just empty words? 

Because if they're just empty words, I'll quit defending them.  Buf if you embrace them, then I will continue to call you out for not practicing them ALL the time.  The core values don't have limts, they are about YOU, not others.

Which, to me at least, go back to so many threads on this board - respect is not shown in many places and harshness and hard feelings result.  When respect is shown and returned, there is an opportunity for change...without it there is resentment and resistance.

Saying that "Respect" is absolute leads to other absurd conclusions.

Do you volunteer 100% of your time?  Volunteer Service is not limited!  You should be doing volunteer service 24 hours a day, or that core value is without meaning and an empty vow.

How about Excellence.  Is everything you do at an exceptional level?  Do you do anything that you're not an expert at.  Excellence, when taken to an absolute means that you should not do it if you cannot do it perfectly.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.  None of the Core Values are absolute, and if you think they are, you don't comprehend them.

[bflynn]

However, if that same person begins regaling me with tales of his participation in KKK meetings, and the superiority of the White Race, my respect will end rather abruptly. 

You should walk away.  But that does not mean disrespectfully.

Then for you, it's about White Supremists?  Anyone else?  Those who are Black Supremists?  Someone wearing a confederate civil war hat?  Someone who disagrees with you about anything?  Those who have blue eyes?  Someone you don't find cute?

If you draw the line someplace, then you're not exercising respect in your daily life, which means it's not a value of yours.

Having been through a lot of this core value stuff with many different companies, I have to ask you - do you really embrace the CAP core values or are they just nice things to say so we mirror the Air Force?  Are they in fact our values and you aren't quite with them or does everyone feel like you do and the core values are just empty words? 

Because if they're just empty words, I'll quit defending them.  Buf if you embrace them, then I will continue to call you out for not practicing them ALL the time.  The core values don't have limts, they are about YOU, not others.

Which, to me at least, go back to so many threads on this board - respect is not shown in many places and harshness and hard feelings result.  When respect is shown and returned, there is an opportunity for change...without it there is resentment and resistance.

Saying that "Respect" is absolute leads to other absurd conclusions.

Do you volunteer 100% of your time?  Volunteer Service is not limited!  You should be doing volunteer service 24 hours a day, or that core value is without meaning and an empty vow.

How about Excellence.  Is everything you do at an exceptional level?  Do you do anything that you're not an expert at.  Excellence, when taken to an absolute means that you should not do it if you cannot do it perfectly.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.  None of the Core Values are absolute, and if you think they are, you don't comprehend them.

To say that CORE values are not absolute mistakes what the word core mean.  Your core values are what at inside of you.  They are who you are all the time.  You either have a value that is core to your being or you do not.  If you don't - then you don't.  It's neither better nor worse except from the standpoint of alignment with the stated values of CAP.

Do not mistake who you are with what you do...they are different.  Do I volunteer 24 hours a day?  No, of course not.  But I stand ready to serve others 24 hours a day and service is a huge part of my life.  Why?  Because service to others is one of my core values.

Am I perfect?  No, I am human.  I get tired and mess up too.  And then I try to do it better.

If you're not understanding this and you don't respect me, then your answer is to dis me and walk away, right?  No big deal, I'm not offended by how you choose to react.  My answer is that if you don't understand this, I will continue patiently trying to say it in different ways until you do understand.

Core values are core - they are who you are all the time.  CAP has core values.  If you do not have the same core values, then you can reflect on what CAP's core values would do for you and for CAP if you adopt them, or you can choose not to have them.  If you think you do, then critically analyze what you do and think to represent those.  It isn't necessary to be perfect, just be the best that you can.

[Eclipse]

Excellence, when taken to an absolute means that you should not do it if you cannot do it perfectly.

No, it means you strive to do your best at all times.

[wuzafuzz]

I was just looking at the People of WalMart website, practicing being respectful.  Failed miserably.  Fortunately no one was here to see it.

[Flying Pig]

I deal with people all day long who "demand" that I respect them.  Being rude generally isnt called for but respecting some nut jobs misguided delusional view of reality point of view isnt going to happen.

[Garibaldi]

Big, BIG difference between commanding respect and DEMANDING respect.

[♠SARKID♠]

Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Mr. President!  We cannot allow a mineshaft gap!

[bflynn]

Big, BIG difference between commanding respect and DEMANDING respect.

I'd even say there's there's a big difference between the two above and giving respect.  What you described above is directed from you to others and is about YOU getting respect.  Giving respect without expectation of having it returned is difficult and I think a core value we could all use more of.

As far as others demanding respect?  I think they're probably demanding a level of submission - that isn't about respect, at least not to me.

[JeffDG]

Core values are core - they are who you are all the time.  CAP has core values.  If you do not have the same core values, then you can reflect on what CAP's core values would do for you and for CAP if you adopt them, or you can choose not to have them.  If you think you do, then critically analyze what you do and think to represent those.  It isn't necessary to be perfect, just be the best that you can.

Why is it that some core values are absolute to you (like respect), but others are not (like volunteer service)?

In terms of respect, I give respect very freely.  But that said, there are those who show that they are unworthy of any form of respect.  At that point, when the evidence is clear that they deserve no respect, I will withdraw same.  Respect that is absolute and not subject to any thought is not respect, it is robbed of its meaning.  It is a meaningless "catch phrase."  Only when it is considered and weighed appropriately does it have meaning.  If you want to respect everyone, that's fine.  But your respect is meaningless, and IMHO, not in the spirit of CAP's core values. 

My respect is freely given, but it has limits that are carefully considered and weighed.  By actually thinking about it, I give it value.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

While respect is important on all fronts, respect can be lost. Just as trust.

If someone lies to me enough, I'm not going to trust them anymore.
Just as;
If someone proves to me enough that they are a sack of dirt, I won't respect them anymore.

Respect isn't infinite, it has an end, and that come abruptly when I hear racial slurs from them all day long, or when I hear it enough times that they have no desire to help their brothers.

The same thing tends to happen when someone tells me that I must respect them. If they demand respect out of the gate without a reason for me to respect them, there won't be much respect out of the gate. Now if someone is in a position that demands respect, like a superior or a subordinate, I will respect them, until they prove they don't deserve respect.

If we contstantly go on the idea that all must be respected, and their values must be respected, and their decisions and actions must be respected at all times, then an issue arises. That issue would hit CAP like a huge brick wall covered in human feces. The issue being that criminals would be in CAP, and people who want to steal from CAP and abuse their powerwold still be in CAP,  and in high places.

This is true, and you can't deny it. Because in order to remove someone from CAP service requires you to have no respect for them or their actions.

[johnnyb47]

I have a feeling he is getting exactly the kind of respect he is hoping for.

[bflynn]

Why is it that some core values are absolute to you (like respect), but others are not (like volunteer service)?

You didn't understand - they are all absolute - they are either a part of you or they are not.  You either have respect ingrained into you or you do not.  You have a service mindset or you do not. 

Now - there IS a difference between respect and service - that respect can be given to all without effort.  Service cannot be given to all because your time is not infinite.

But you didn't see that because you see service as an action, not a value.  A value is a noun, action is a verb.  The two are different.

[JeffDG]

Why is it that some core values are absolute to you (like respect), but others are not (like volunteer service)?

You didn't understand - they are all absolute - they are either a part of you or they are not.  You either have respect ingrained into you or you do not.  You have a service mindset or you do not. 

Now - there IS a difference between respect and service - that respect can be given to all without effort.  Service cannot be given to all because your time is not infinite.

But you didn't see that because you see service as an action, not a value.  A value is a noun, action is a verb.  The two are different.

If service is an absolute, then you are either giving 24/7/366 voluntary service, or you're not giving any.

If respect is absolute, it's a meaningless buzz-word.  Only by defining limits on respect do you give the term meaning.  If you're not willing to put even that effort into it, then you are simply spouting meaningless pablum about respect.

[bflynn]

This is true, and you can't deny it. Because in order to remove someone from CAP service requires you to have no respect for them or their actions.

Oh my goodness, I certainly hope not!  That is an incredibly hateful and harmful thing to say.

As a manager, I've had to fire three people for cause.  It sucks, after one of them I had to take the rest of the day off.  But never, ever, did I not respect them.  They were simply not fit what we were doing.  That's not better or worse, it's just different.  They didn't match with the values and/or needs of the organization, so they were seperated.  As it should be.

Respect IS a black and white - either you have respect inside of you or you do not.  If you do not respect other people as human beings, not matter what they've done - then you don't have respect.  Yes, there are people who do horrible things, far worse than racism.  Yet, as soon as you start saying that they don't deserve respect, then all kinds of horrible behavior on your part becomes possible...because in your eyes, they now deserve it, they are less than you are.  A simple if somewhat extreme rhetorical question - if all Germans has respected all Jewish people, could the Holocaust have happened? 

Yes, you have standards.  Yes, you keep your standards, you uphold them and protect them.  You do not accept what is less than the standard.  You do not tolerate those who are outside your standard and you can condemn what someone does badly.  But never, ever do you stop respecting others. 

I go back to what I've said before - this is about you, not them.  You either respect people all the time - or you don't.  If you respect, then always do it - or at least always try.  You'll find that you cannot hate and despise someone when you force yourself to give them respect.  If you do not respect everyone all the time, then respect is not a part of your core values.  That's fine too...I'm not condemning that and I don't respect anyone less for lacking it. 

The only additional thing I will say - if you don't practice respect all the time, then you don't match CAP core values. 

Think on this - I don't know how young or old you are now, but perhaps when you're older still, it will make sense.  It's a pretty good way to go through life and you'll be amazed at how many problems disappear when sincere respect is practiced on all sides.

If I'm talking about you, you can either get angry at me and stop respecting me or you can challenge yourself to try respect. 

[bflynn]

If service is an absolute, then you are either giving 24/7/366 voluntary service, or you're not giving any.

If respect is absolute, it's a meaningless buzz-word.  Only by defining limits on respect do you give the term meaning.  If you're not willing to put even that effort into it, then you are simply spouting meaningless pablum about respect.

No, I see that you're still not getting it - how can I put it differently?

Values are about your attitude.  You have your attitidue 24x7.

Actions are what you do.

CAP does not have a core value that we perform volunteer actions.  CAP has a core value of volunteer service.  The value is the personal inner belief that the action of volunteer service is valuable.  It does not require you to be a volunteer for every organization all the time to value service.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I have found over my lifetimethat respect is earned while courtesy may be given.  They are not the same, though there is some overlap.

I can be courteous to a complete stranger without knowing them or anything about them (simple example: motioning for someone looking to pull into traffic to go ahead of me).

Given that I am very reserved in person, that can too often be mistaken for discourtesy or disrespect, when I do not intend it that way.

There are different kinds of respect.  One can even respect an enemy.  Witness the fact that in the Second World War, in most cases Allied airmen killed over mainland Europe were given respectful burials by the Germans (SS excepted) and that Luftwaffe aircrew shot down and killed over Britain were treated much the same by the British.  Sadly, it wasn't usually the same with the Japanese.

I can respect a king cobra in that I know it has the power to kill me.

I respect the office of President of the United States, even though I may or may not respect the person holding it.

I do not respect a murderer, etc., who is guilty and unrepentant.

I do not respect someone who thinks that all other races, religions, nationalities, creeds, etc. are "inferior" to theirs.

I will not pretend to be courteous to such people.

I try my hardest (not always successfully) to let them rent out headspace in my mind...to allow that shows that at some level, I do care about them and what they think.  Again, I'm not always successful.

[SarDragon]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

[Sapper168]

Can we just go ahead and turn this into a uniform thread?   Its page three already and it hasn't happened, captalk is lagging behind.

[RogueLeader]

Can we just go ahead and turn this into a uniform thread?   Its page three already and it hasn't happened, captalk is lagging behind.

I think I need a tin foil hat to protect me from the tin foil hatters.  Then I'd have to either get a ICL or a waiver.  If I did that, then I'd look like a tin-foil hatter, then they'd expect me to believe it too.  Nuts. . .

Already done.

[wuzafuzz]

Ha!  If you fold that tin foil hat up just right it doubles as a silver oak leaf.   

PS: don't use cell phones or walkie talkies while wearing a tin foil hat.  The hat acts as a parabolic reflector and fries your brains, possibly creating a zombie...just in time for Halloween.  Besides, the tin foil hat creates a larger radar image, making it easier for the black helicopters to find you.  :angel:

[bflynn]

I do not respect a murderer, etc., who is guilty and unrepentant.

I do not respect someone who thinks that all other races, religions, nationalities, creeds, etc. are "inferior" to theirs.

I will not pretend to be courteous to such people.

Then you're saying that for you to have respect, someone has to agree with you first or have a status that everyone else says you have to respect.

That isn't about you, so it isn't a core value of yours.

Look, I'm not condemning this one way or another.  It's a country of free belief, you can treat respect how you want.  But if you only respect those you already like for other reasons and don't respect those you don't like then it's very difficult for me to assign respect as one of your core values because you subordinate respect to social customs.  Effectively, other people are telling you who to respect.

I'm not telling anyone else how to live or what to believe - just the way I see it.

If it's worth anything, my view of why respect for all humans is important is rooted in religion and every person being a child of God.  But that's my reason, I'm not suggesting it be yours.  If you don't have the same root belief, then it's understandable or even predictable that you see respect differently than I do.

Regardless - using the earlier part of this thread as an example, more respect would go a long way here.

[wuzafuzz]

Regardless - using the earlier part of this thread as an example, more respect would go a long way here.

Including an understanding that people have opinions that differ from yours.  Celebrate diversity and stop beating this poor horse to a pulp.  Please.

I started this thread as an awareness piece and, yes, the thought of people viewing CAP as part of some evil conspiracy is funny to some of us. Of course it's also good to be aware such opinions exist so we can ponder how we will best represent CAP if we are publicly confronted by one of those folks.

[RogueLeader]

Ha!  If you fold that tin foil hat up just right it doubles as a silver oak leaf.   

Sorry, I'm only up for Maj.   I got four years yet for Lt Col.

[bflynn]

Including an understanding that people have opinions that differ from yours.  Celebrate diversity and stop beating this poor horse to a pulp.  Please.

I'm not telling anyone else how to live or what to believe - just the way I see it.

You're asking me to stop talking about a CAP core value...

Then let's just end the thread.

[AngelWings]

Including an understanding that people have opinions that differ from yours.  Celebrate diversity and stop beating this poor horse to a pulp.  Please.

I'm not telling anyone else how to live or what to believe - just the way I see it.

You're asking me to stop talking about a CAP core value...

Then let's just end the thread.

Your points are extreme. You're not using common sense, which tells us how to dictate how much or how little respect we will show. I remember someone telling someone here that there is "the words of the law and the spirit of the law". The spirit of the core value is that we will show respect as appropiate to those who earn and/or deserve it (which is the majority of CAP members)

There is a huge list of people I do not respect. This list ranges from child abusers and rapists to scum businessmen who ruin other peoples lives to put an extra dollar in their pockets (think Bernie Madoff), with a lot in between.

[wuzafuzz]

Including an understanding that people have opinions that differ from yours.  Celebrate diversity and stop beating this poor horse to a pulp.  Please.

I'm not telling anyone else how to live or what to believe - just the way I see it.

You're asking me to stop talking about a CAP core value...

Then let's just end the thread.

Instead of ending the thread, why not stop the off topic hijack and start your own thread.  That way each one can run its course without requiring a lock.

Respect the rules here.  From the membership code of conduct:
"Finally, as a good housekeeping reminder, please stay on topic.  If your topic starts to drift, or you develop a new topic you'd like to discuss, please create a separate, appropriately-titled thread.  This not only keeps things tidy, but helps build a well-labeled archive of discussions for current and future reference.  Remember to search for recent threads on a topic before you start one to see if the idea has already been under discussion in an existing thread."

[wuzafuzz]

In the original linked article some commenters discussed publicly confronting the CAP members.  How would CAPTalkers react to that?

FWIW I would try to have a productive conversation while avoiding a shouting match.  If it descends to that level it's time to leave or call the cops.  Cadet protection remains paramount.

Fortunately, chances are that most of us will never have that conversation.  It's good to consider the possibility though.

[ol'fido]

Can we just go ahead and turn this into a uniform thread?   Its page three already and it hasn't happened, captalk is lagging behind.

I saw a show on NatGeo or Discovery Channel the other night about the "Watchmen" militia groups in IN, FL, and AZ. It was called "Militia Rising". It should have been called "FAT MEN IN CAMOUFLAGE". I nearly died laughing.

Militia Rising_WMV V9.wmv

[SARDOC]

Can we just go ahead and turn this into a uniform thread?   Its page three already and it hasn't happened, captalk is lagging behind.

I saw a show on NatGeo or Discovery Channel the other night about the "Watchmen" militia groups in IN, FL, and AZ. It was called "Militia Rising". It should have been called "FAT MEN IN CAMOUFLAGE". I nearly died laughing.

Militia Rising_WMV V9.wmv

wow..Just watched the video.  What a bunch of loons.  This is what scares me about just anybody being able to buy assault rifles.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

This is what scares me about just anybody being able to buy assault rifles.

Yeah, let's not start this one please.

[RRLE]

In the original linked article some commenters discussed publicly confronting the CAP members.  How would CAPTalkers react to that?

Keep in mind the original article stated the CAP members barred his way. The confrontation needs to be seen in that context. Since perception is reality, the confrontation would be CAP's fault for barring the way.