ACUT/BCUT Radio Operator Card

[vento]

Once completed and passed the test for ACUT or BCUT training, where should one look for the radio operator's card (to print the actual card)? Is it within the WMU or eServices?

Thanks!

[Camas]

It's not in e-services; I believe many wings are using the WMU and that feature works great. It allows entry of either ACUT or BCUT information by a communications staff member along with issuing and printing both the CAPF76 (ROA card) and a station license issued by the wing.

[Eclipse]

Once completed and passed the test for ACUT or BCUT training, where should one look for the radio operator's card (to print the actual card)? Is it within the WMU or eServices?

Thanks!

It depends on your state - some use the WMU and you can print them yourself, some don't. 

I don't know of anywhere they are tracked in eServices.  Contact your unit's DC for detail.

[RiverAux]

Why wouldn't they go ahead and track this using eservices like everything else?  Just haven't gotten around to it? 

[jimmydeanno]

^because it's easier to have 19 different systems that all require the same information be input into them.   

[Larry Mangum]

Because it has been hard enough to get the wings to use eServices. A lot of the wings like to do things their way and heaven help if someone was to standardize things.

[Short Field]

A paper Radio Operator Card smacks of the 20th century....some of us are living in the 21st century.  ACUT and BCUT are post tasks that fall under SQTRs in eServices.  I really don't care if a person has a Radio Operator Card on them - I want to know if they are a qualified MO, MP, MRO or CUL.  If they are fully qualified, no issue, they have the training.  If not, then I check eServices to see if they are approved for training and what they are missing in their training. 

[MajorChuck]

Contact the Wing's  Communications Licensing Officer. If none, then the Director of Communications

[Eclipse]

I really don't care if a person has a Radio Operator Card on them - I want to know if they are a qualified MO, MP, MRO or CUL.  If they are fully qualified, no issue, they have the training.  If not, then I check eServices to see if they are approved for training and what they are missing in their training.

Excellent...

...except...

A) The regulations specifically require the card be carried with you when you want to operate CAP radios.

B) More than a few of our wonderful ES operators have B-Cut cards that expire every two years, when that happens, that means:

     1) They cannot use CAP radio equipment unsupervised.
     2) They are no longer qualified to operate unsupervised in any capacity such as MP/MO/GT/MRO,
            etc.,which requires a radio card.

There's probably a few more issues but you get the idea.

[Short Field]

Why would the Radio Operator Card have an expiration date on it?   

Completion of ACUT/BCUT is documented in eServices Ops Quals.  This a another case of the regs not keeping up with changes in technology.  We use the IMU for ES so I am at the point I don't trust paper unless it is filling in the gap between the last IMU database (downloaded through WMU from eServices) and the date of the mission.  Then I verify using eServices.

[Eclipse]

Why would the Radio Operator Card have an expiration date on it? 

B-Cut cards expire every two years (Asking "why" will just give you a headache.)

Completion of ACUT/BCUT is documented in eServices Ops Quals.

Awesome if you're in a state that that uses eServices for ES, not all of them do.  Also, eServices only
records the date the related task was entered into the system, it has no connection to when it will expire.  To my knowledge there is no place in eServices that indicates the status of Radio Cards.  At least the WMU has this capability if the state is using it.

Neither system has any logic to lock out qualifications for first aid or ROA cards when those certifications expire.

This a another case of the regs not keeping up with changes in technology.  We use the IMU for ES so I am at the point I don't trust paper unless it is filling in the gap between the last IMU database (downloaded through WMU from eServices) and the date of the mission.  Then I verify using eServices.

Outstanding, assuming you have access to the internet - which still doesn't change the fact that the current regulations require you to have the ROA card on your person, just as it does for 101's, CAP ID, CAP-DL, First Aid, and any number of other credentials for your qualifications.

[Short Field]

Can't argue the requirement to have the docs with you.  However, where does it state the Radio Operator Card expires in two years?  Per 100-1, there is no card for ACUT and my Radio Operator Card (which I carry in my billfold) does not have an expiration date.

[PhoenixRisen]

...where does it state the Radio Operator Card expires in two years?  Per 100-1, there is no card for ACUT and my Radio Operator Card (which I carry in my billfold) does not have an expiration date.

The BCUT has a two-year expiration date.  The ACUT doesn't expire.

-PC
ACUT / MRO Guy

[Eclipse]

Can't argue the requirement to have the docs with you.  However, where does it state the Radio Operator Card expires in two years?  Per 100-1, there is no card for ACUT and my Radio Operator Card (which I carry in my billfold) does not have an expiration date.

I'm going to have to check with my DC on that to see if the expiration is a local wing policy, however the ROA card shown on page 16 of 100-1 does show an expiration date, and my A and old B do have expiration dates on them, the A being membership lifetime + 2 years (for people who leave and come back - that I know is a local wing policy).

Where the expiration comes from may be local, but you're going to find its pretty common in a lot of states.

The A/B level of the card is tracked at the wing level with the licensing info.

[notaNCO forever]

I know the ROA card I have has no expiration date.

[FW]

Wow, you guys made me look at my ROA card for the first time in about 10 years 

What's even more amazing is that you motivated me to look at CAPR 100-1 for the first time in quite a while 

The ROA card is for both ACUT and BCUT.  There is a place for an expiration date however, there could be one or, maybe not.  This depends on wing/region policy.

My ROA card has a "card number" with an "A" suffix denoting the ACUT classification   A "B" suffix denotes the BCUT. 

My next "project" will be to figure how to print the card up in Eservices.  However, if some wings don't use it, I could figure out a way to motivate the commanders to do so.  We have a total revamping of the system coming up by year's end.  My guess is it will be a mandatory action to use it by all.

[ßτε]

As far as I know, there is no way to print an ROA card in eServices.

[Capt Rivera]

So here is my question...

If the SQTRs require you to be have done a minimum of BCUT for most or all positions (I assume) why is it necessary to have the card in addition to the SQTR sign off?

We should already have our 101 card with us while doing everything (Ops wise) except for maybe driving the van... [we could&should make it a requirement for CAP Drivers license.]

Everyone likes cards/license/certs/etc.... but what purpose does it serve that prevents us from doing without. I see an opportunity to cut some resource waste.... thoughts?

[JoeTomasone]

Answering a few people here, bear with me:

The BCUT has a two-year expiration date.  The ACUT doesn't expire.

1.  ROA cards do not expire by regulation (and if you think so, here's your chance to cite).   FLWG, for example, puts "With membership expiration" in that section of the ROA card.

As far as I know, there is no way to print an ROA card in eServices.

2.  eServices *currently* does not have the ability to track/print ROA cards, but it is planned for some time in the future (and not the near future, I have been told).   FLWG maintains its own ROA database for which I have written code to print or email a member's ROA card.  I expect it to go live over the summer, perhaps.   Still working on details.

(If you are in FLWG and need your ROA card emailed to you (along with a nifty certificate!), PM me)

If the SQTRs require you to be have done a minimum of BCUT for most or all positions (I assume) why is it necessary to have the card in addition to the SQTR sign off?

3.  Just because your BCUT is in your OPS QUALS for whatever SQTR doesn't mean that your WG/CC hasn't suspended your ROA priviledges for cause.   Further, as was pointed out earlier, you must have it with you to operate by regulation.   That's why we (still) need the paper cards. 

Trivia question (impresses the ladies at parties):  Only 4 ES Specialty Quals do NOT require a minimum of a BCUT:

1. Mission Scanner
2. Air Radiological Monitoring
3. Ground Radiological Monitoring
4. Transport Mission Pilot

[PhoenixRisen]

The BCUT has a two-year expiration date.  The ACUT doesn't expire.

1.  ROA cards do not expire by regulation (and if you think so, here's your chance to cite).   FLWG, for example, puts "With membership expiration" in that section of the ROA card.

If I could cite something other than my old BCUT card (and all other BCUT's in my current and previous squadron), which all had expiration dates two years from the time they were issued, I would.  I don't know if it's a CAWG thing; but if it is, I can't find a suppliment to the 100-3 anywhere.

(That brings me up to a point I just noticed with goCAP.com... Isn't the 100-3 supposed to be password protected only?  i.e. on the NTC website.  )

[JoeTomasone]

(That brings me up to a point I just noticed with goCAP.com... Isn't the 100-3 supposed to be password protected only?  i.e. on the NTC website.  )

No, all the FOUO information (frequencies, really) were removed and replaced with designators.   The frequencies are now at the password-protected NTC site.

[Eclipse]

(That brings me up to a point I just noticed with goCAP.com... Isn't the 100-3 supposed to be password protected only?  i.e. on the NTC website.  )

CAPR 100-3 is just a procedural regulation, it doesn't contain anything that is FOUO tht I can see.

[NC Hokie]

Trivia question (impresses the ladies at parties):  Only 4 ES Specialty Quals do NOT require a minimum of a BCUT:

1. Mission Scanner
2. Air Radiological Monitoring
3. Ground Radiological Monitoring
4. Transport Mission Pilot

I understand the first three but a TMP?  How is he supposed to communicate with a mission base (by regs) if he's flying high bird or doing anything else that requires coordination with another CAP AC or ground station?

[JoeTomasone]

I understand the first three but a TMP?  How is he supposed to communicate with a mission base (by regs) if he's flying high bird or doing anything else that requires coordination with another CAP AC or ground station?

Good question. 

[Eclipse]

I just spoke with my Wing DC, and the issue of whether or if they expire (A or B) is a function of the Wing's policies under the regulatory authority granted in 100-1 regarding licensing.  My experience is that it is pretty common for B-Cuts to expire in two years, and A-Cuts to be lifetime membership, but obviously this is not 100% consistent from state to state by any means.

The B-Cut is really intended to be a basic orientation on radio use, and the A-Cut more comprehensive for members who require equipment to be issued, etc.  This is why some states' total training is viewing some slides and completing a locally-produced, SQTR-like set of taskings.

He also indicated that when he took over he intended to make some changes to simplify things for us, but because of the looking of the ICut, which will be a national test done online, decided not to bother rocking the boat for something temporary.

Based on the continued delays in implementing the new licensing schemas, he's going to readdress whether it makes sense to go ahead and make some adjustments.

[Short Field]

3.  Just because your BCUT is in your OPS QUALS for whatever SQTR doesn't mean that your WG/CC hasn't suspended your ROA priviledges for cause.   

If you WG/CC suspends your ROA priviledges for cause, then he should have followed up and suspended your Ops Quals that require it.

A good solution in eServices would be to set up the ROA/BCUT/ACUT as separate Ops Quals - similar to the ICS courses.  That way, when you get it suspended, it takes out all the ops quals dependent on it.

[Short Field]

[I understand the first three but a TMP?  How is he supposed to communicate with a mission base (by regs) if he's flying high bird or doing anything else that requires coordination with another CAP AC or ground station?

That is why you need a qualifed MO/MRO aboard to handle CAP comms.  The TMP only needs to talk to ATC or other aircraft via the VHF-AM radios.   

[wuzafuzz]

Jeez, my ham radio license is good for 10 years, and renewable without taking a new test. 

I rather see ROA's remain good for a long time, only suspending them for cause.  Maybe that will be a part of the new training program. 

[RiverAux]

Seems to me that one good thing to come out of this discussion is the idea that the requirement to carry an ROA card needs to be dropped.  I agree, lets make it a separte ES qual just like the ICS courses.  Seems to be the easiest solution to all the issues. 

[Capt Rivera]

A good solution in eServices would be to set up the ROA/BCUT/ACUT as separate Ops Quals - similar to the ICS courses.  That way, when you get it suspended, it takes out all the ops quals dependent on it.

You beat me to saying this...

Seems to me that one good thing to come out of this discussion is the idea that the requirement to carry an ROA card needs to be dropped.  I agree, lets make it a separte ES qual just like the ICS courses.  Seems to be the easiest solution to all the issues.

So what would it take to make this happen? I really see this as a win/win for anyone involved at any level.