A Commission?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Im commenting on this again, as I mull over the possibility of the PHS Reserve...

What are the chances that we could get the Air Force to give us a certificate or warrant or commission? - maybe signed by the USAF-CAP /CC or SECAF- 

It would not need to give us power over others, merely serve as the object giving us status as (Auxiliary) officers.


I know we've batted this around for 10 pages... but as written up as I put it above, with the justification above, would anyone really have a problem with this?

Or to ask a sidebar: If CAP-USAF/ NHQ came out tomorrow and announced that we would recieve something like this: What should such an item say/ look like and whose signature would you like to see on the bottom?

The wording of a commission directs "All officers and other personnel of lesser rank to render such obedience as is due an officer of this grade and position."  Plus, if the SecAF grants CAP officers warrants, they would count against the end strength of the AF officers.

Our appointing authority is the National Commander.  He could issue such a document.

[SAR-EMT1]

What do you mean a warrant from SACAF would count against the end of AF Officers?

As for something signed by NHQ/CC what makes that official?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Commissioned and warrant officers are counted by Congress and the end strength of a service in terms of officers is controlled by Congress.  If CAP officers are granted warrants by SECAF, then they would count against the end strength numbers of the AF.

The Natl CC is as official as we can get.  It is under his authority that officers in CAP are appointed.

Commissioned officers are appointed by the President, 

Warrant officers are appointed by the service secretary.

We are appointed by the National Commander, who has, as a practical matter, delegated the authority to make appointments to subordinate commanders, according to the grade to which appointed.

[ZigZag911]

I would imagine Congress could pass legislation authorizing SECAF to appoint/commission officers, warrant officers, or non-commissioned officers in the
USAF Auxiliary "supernumerary" to the end strength of the regular/reserve AF, especially since there would be no compensation involved.

Why they would want to get bogged down in complex legislation for what amounted to the 'military' equivalent of vanity license plates is another issue entirely!

[JohnKachenmeister]

Of course, Congress could create a separate officers' list... an Auxiliary List that, just like I, presently on the "Retired List," does not count against the officer strength of a service.

Good luck.

[ZigZag911]

Why would Congress bother creating an "Auxiliary officers list"?

What's the benefit?

For that matter, what's the point?!?

A certificate of appointment (or promotion) from NHQ might be nice....something else to clutter up the wall!

Actually, a similar certificate for command appointments would be a 'nice to have', also.

[Grumpy]

"A certificate of appointment (or promotion) from NHQ might be nice....something else to clutter up the wall!"

Ah yes, the ol' "I love me wall".  Got one myself.

[AlphaSigOU]

Ah yes, the ol' "I love me wall".  Got one myself.

No self-respecting donut-eatin' s'member is without one! 

Except I haven't found a place to go set up one in my house, yet!

[mikeylikey]

Except I haven't found a place to go set up one in my house, yet!

You can always set it up at work!  Then move the coffee pot and watercooler in front of it, so all your coworkers have to read and see "how AWESOME" you are everyday. 

Subliminally, it could also get you that big promotion.  Your Boss notices how awesome you are, equates that to how much you deserve more money and greater responsibility!

[AlphaSigOU]

Except I haven't found a place to go set up one in my house, yet!

You can always set it up at work!  Then move the coffee pot and watercooler in front of it, so all your coworkers have to read and see "how AWESOME" you are everyday. 

Subliminally, it could also get you that big promotion.  Your Boss notices how awesome you are, equates that to how much you deserve more money and greater responsibility!

Fat chance... I don't even rate an office.  My boss, on the other hand, does have an 'I can engineer almost anywhere' wall - he's a licensed P.E. in several states.

[RiverAux]

This whole thread consists of confusion between those who equate a piece of paper (a Commission) with a whole slew of other changes that would have to take place to make the piece of paper mean what they would like it to mean. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

River, you are right.

ZZ, I was agreeing with you.  What was proposed, having the SECAF issue certificates to CAP members, would require Congressional action.

A commission or a warrant is simply a document saying that the bearer has the trust of the president or service secretary, and is appointed  to a military grade.  The authority to give orders and to punish those who disobey is found in law, not in any intrinsic power of a document.

We are appointed to CAP grade by authority of the National Commander.  The authority to give orders and to punish those who disobey is found in our regulations.  For that reason, a certificate from the Natl CC is appropriate, and very cool for those of us blessed with a den to display it in. 

Without such a document, insubordinate members can still be 2B'ed.  Life goes on. 

[Falshrmjgr]

So quick question all.  Do you consider yourselves members of a volunteer organization that happens to wear military rank?  Or are you volunteer officers of an instrument of the US Government?

Until we sort that out, the rest is eyewash.

Look, IMHO CAP's permission to wear rank and the insignia of the uniform of a commissioned US officer should clarify that.   Carry yourself as such.  A piece of paper is not going to change anything.  It's a question of professionalism.  The concept of what an officer is, predates existing jurisprudence.  Granted, you may not legally enjoy all the rights and prerogatives of a "military" officer, but you are in fact officers.  "A person holding trust or authority"

I will truncate the rest of my rant and vacate the soapbox.

[O-Rex]

So quick question all.  Do you consider yourselves members of a volunteer organization that happens to wear military rank?  Or are you volunteer officers of an instrument of the US Government?

Until we sort that out, the rest is eyewash.

Look, IMHO CAP's permission to wear rank and the insignia of the uniform of a commissioned US officer should clarify that.   Carry yourself as such.  A piece of paper is not going to change anything.  It's a question of professionalism.  The concept of what an officer is, predates existing jurisprudence.  Granted, you may not legally enjoy all the rights and prerogatives of a "military" officer, but you are in fact officers.  "A person holding trust or authority"

I will truncate the rest of my rant and vacate the soapbox.

Amen.

Rank is but two bits of tinsel;

A commission is but a piece of paper;

It is a sense of professionalism and spirit that makes us what we are, federally validated or not.

Dan Kaffee in 'A Few Good Men' put it rather succinctly: "You don't have to wear a patch to have honor...'

[JohnKachenmeister]

So quick question all.  Do you consider yourselves members of a volunteer organization that happens to wear military rank?  Or are you volunteer officers of an instrument of the US Government?

Until we sort that out, the rest is eyewash.

Look, IMHO CAP's permission to wear rank and the insignia of the uniform of a commissioned US officer should clarify that.   Carry yourself as such.  A piece of paper is not going to change anything.  It's a question of professionalism.  The concept of what an officer is, predates existing jurisprudence.  Granted, you may not legally enjoy all the rights and prerogatives of a "military" officer, but you are in fact officers.  "A person holding trust or authority"

I will truncate the rest of my rant and vacate the soapbox.

Put me down in the column with the rest of the "Volunteer military officers."  The only difference I see in my duty now and my duty as an Army Reserve officer is that my mailbox no longer has a check waiting for me on the first of the month for my service. 

[SAR-EMT1]

Vollunteer Officer

[mikeylikey]

^ The same!!

[riffraff]

member of a volunteer organization.

Military-style uniforms? Yes.  Peers of military officers in the same respective grades? Not even close.

This in no way implies there isn't professionalism in CAP. There is. However, CAP is no different than other volunteer organizations I've been involved with -- fire, EMS, etc. All had rules, by-laws, etc. But at the end of the day, they're all volunteer organizations -- just like CAP.

Military rank transfers to CAP. Not the other way around. Someone let me know when a (not previously federally commissioned) CAP officer transfers to the military with their CAP rank intact. The two are not interchangable. CAP officers are not USAF officers. CAP officers are not military officers. I wish people would stop acting like they are.

You know, the guys at the airport working for TSA wear blue trousers and white shirts with blue shoulder boards -- some sporting officer ranks. They're not military officers either.

Do your CAP job well and derive satisfaction from the knowledge that you're doing something good. Hopefully this is the reason you joined CAP in the first place.

[isuhawkeye]

We volunteer once a year, and thats when we pay our dues.  The rest of the time we have a job to do, and we do those jobs well

[Bluelakes 13]

Here here!

:clap: