Addition To The Professional Appointments Category On The SM Promotion Chart.

[exFlight Officer]

Hi All,

I was reviewing the Senior Member Promotion Chart and a question came to mind;

Why aren't Law Enforcement Officers, Fire Fighters, EMT's, and Emergency Service Personnel be included in the Professional Appointments category?

Emergency Services is one of the CAP Missions. I figure why not? ... Teachers, Lawyers, Health Service Professionals, Doctors, and financial officers are included in the Professional Appointments category.


Promotion Chart attached below. 

[EMT-83]

In a word, no.

I came to CAP with 25 years of experience as a Firefighter/EMT/911 Dispatcher, and 10 years as an Emergency Management Director. I've acquired an extensive skill set over the years, but it's a different skill set needed for CAP.

If I were to be granted a Professional Appointment and allowed to bypass introductory CAP training, neither CAP nor I would be better off. I turned down an initial appointment to second lieutenant because I didn't want to be HSO, and worked through the program like everyone else should.

IMHO, there should be fewer professional appointments, not more.

[James Shaw]

No for Law Enforcement - We do not do this as part of our organization
No for Fire Fighting - We do not do this as part of our organization
Yes for EMT's - Allready part of the PD program
Yes depending on Emergency Services Training

If the person is allready qualified in some sort of medical training such as EMT as part of their training for Law and Fire. There should be some level of "discretion" that can be done on an individual base.

[CAP_truth]

Professional left out educators, and lawyers.

[RiverAux]

There was some discussion at one of the big meetings recently about having some sort of professional appointment for those in the "emergency management" field, but it didn't go very far since there were no real national standards out there in this field. 

In any case, we should be eliminating all advanced promotion options (including those for former military officers) rather than adding new ones.

I have not seen any analysis showing that such promotions actually help us recruit anybody that wouldn't have been recruited anyway. 

[Eclipse]

^ Where do I sign.

[SARDOC]

There was some discussion at one of the big meetings recently about having some sort of professional appointment for those in the "emergency management" field, but it didn't go very far since there were no real national standards out there in this field.   

I agree with most of your post except this little blurb...The International Association of Emergency Managers would disagree with you about there not being a real national standard...They really like their CEM and AEM programs.

[RiverAux]

It was the NB (or NEC, I forget which) that came to that conclusion so take it up with them. 

[flyboy53]

I realize that some of these special appointments may be CAP-mission related, but it could be counter-productive by defeating the purpose of the senior member training program, possibly conflicting with the emergency services training and inviting more controversy over what justification is required for advancement.

I had a long discussion once with a A&P mechanic who came into our organization as a captain and had intended to use his skills by working on airplanes. However, under the current consolidated maintenance program, he wasn't even allowed to change the engine oil. He felt he had wasted his time and was a little bitter. Instead, he wound up in aerospace education and I was trying to convince him to enter into observer training.

So, what would be the point of new special appointments? Boosting the membership by giving away rank? Shouldn't we leave well enough alone?

[Thrashed]

Professional appointments don't bypass introductory training.  They must do level one first.  They must also do level 2 and so on to promote again.  They do everything the "regular" senior members does, but with a little more grade on their collar. Really, the only difference is time-in-grade.

[RiverAux]

You might want to re-read those criteria for the professional appointments.  You may be thinking of the mission-related skills appointments -- after the initial one then you do have to catch up on PD to promote, but its not that way for all of the professional ones.

[Thrashed]

I'll have to read each one, but I'm doing a Chaplin appointment and he has to do level one before applying for chaplin and then promotion.

[Eclipse]

I had a long discussion once with a A&P mechanic who came into our organization as a captain and had intended to use his skills by working on airplanes. However, under the current consolidated maintenance program, he wasn't even allowed to change the engine oil. He felt he had wasted his time and was a little bitter. Instead, he wound up in aerospace education and I was trying to convince him to enter into observer training.

Who didn't tell him that isn't how it works?

[flyboy53]

I had a long discussion once with a A&P mechanic who came into our organization as a captain and had intended to use his skills by working on airplanes. However, under the current consolidated maintenance program, he wasn't even allowed to change the engine oil. He felt he had wasted his time and was a little bitter. Instead, he wound up in aerospace education and I was trying to convince him to enter into observer training.

Who didn't tell him that isn't how it works?

Not sure. He was from my wing, not my group. I only tried to help him...also recommended that he speak with his group's a/c maintenance officer. He's still in the system for now, however, and actively participating.

[Flying Pig]

No.  A professional appointment requires you to work in that capacity IN CAP.  LE and firefighting obviously isnt an aspect of CAP. Nor is it "emergency services" in the context that CAP uses the term.  I dont think there should be special appointments at all. So perhaps I am a little bias.  The problem with them is that someone comes on as a Capt based on being a MD or a CFII, and they dont know the first thing about CAP, and, in my experience, seldom ever learn.

[Patterson]

In any case, we should be eliminating all advanced promotion options (including those for former military officers) rather than adding new ones.

I agree that there are too many "advanced promotions", but for Commissioned Officers who decide to become involved with CAP (especially of the Air Force type), I think they should keep their rank.

If we follow your logic, we should also eliminate CAP Enlisted Folks too....right?!?!

[davidsinn]

If we follow your logic, we should also eliminate CAP Enlisted Folks too....right?!?!

Yes please. They serve no purpose that they could not serve as an officer.

[Ned]

If we follow your logic, we should also eliminate CAP Enlisted Folks too....right?!?!

Yes please. They serve no purpose that they could not serve as an officer.

How strange.

Former Air Force officers "serve no purpose they could not serve as " senior members without grade.

What's the difference?

[James Shaw]

In keeping this chain of thought in mind. Why not look at Advanced promotion for other professions.

Personnel Specialty - Human Resource Management
IT Specialist - Various Network and Computer Certifications
Historian - Bachelors Degree in History

or--------- I may get smacked for this one.

Enrolling in a specialty track within your professional field.

Associates Degree - 2nd Lt.
Bachelors Degree - 1st Lt.
Masters Degree - Capt
MD/Phd/DBA or such - Major

or---------- Professional Certifications

PHR for HR Managers - Capt
CSP for Safety - Capt

[davidsinn]

If we follow your logic, we should also eliminate CAP Enlisted Folks too....right?!?!

Yes please. They serve no purpose that they could not serve as an officer.

How strange.

Former Air Force officers "serve no purpose they could not serve as " senior members without grade.

What's the difference?

There isn't one really. But at least officers neatly fit in with the existing rank structure instead of bending "reality" to their ego. I've talked to a few CAP NCOs and the reason they stated as being an NCO was because they worked for a living and wouldn't be caught dead wearing bars. We have what, less than 500 of them total? Is it worth the heartburn to cater to such a small population when we could have a completely unified force?

I'm not a fan of advanced promotions for anyone but at least military officers(and NCOs) have leadership experience in almost all cases. I don't see the point in creating a new class of SM for people that don't want to adapt to the way the program is when they could use the exact same experience in the same ways with bars on their collars instead of standing out with stripes.